Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[DrewVa]

Massclaim is discouraged this game 'cause scum has fakeclaims made specially for them

3- This game most certainly canNot be broken by flavor-gaming or mass claiming. (I will still advise against the practice though)

4- If you didn't get it: All anti-Town players have been provided with proper fake claims.

I wonder if those fake claims involve flavour. He says no flavour gaming but I was able to help solve Labrynth based on the fake flavour connection between scum!Chick and scum!rando in that one.

Alright I see now how claiming anything just helps scum. :/

[DrewVa]

How many scum are we looking at

I almost want to revote you

So this is twice Wisdom has said and done things he does not do as town.
Town!Wisdom does not:
-ask shitty questions he knows he won't get an answer to
-announce that his read might be changing

Like I get some people don't like Nancy's case on Wisdom, but Nancy's case being unconvincing does not in fact make Wisdom town here. --D

[DrewVa]

P.edit, Obviously they involve fake flavours but does that necessarily mean that flavour gaming is impossible? Fake flavour probably has some connection to true flavour. Like scum!random was Jareth but his fake flavour was the wise man and Jareth had appeared previously in the guise of an owl.

[hebichan]

I feel a bit bad now because I looked at my past games and I don't think I've played with scum!wisdom looking back...

At the same time this still feels a bit off from wisdom's town voice, but I'm not as certain now.

[DrewVa]

I feel a bit bad now because I looked at my past games and I don't think I've played with scum!wisdom looking back...

At the same time this still feels a bit off from wisdom's town voice, but I'm not as certain now.

Do you think town!Wisdom automatically scumreads me, for something he’s seen me do numerous times as town?

[hebichan]

Only if he's floundering in his role. Dangan Ronpa V3 mafia comes to mind.

Most of the time, probably not.

[Wisdom]

what do you think im scumreading her for, hebi?

[hebichan]

probably you think her earlier questions to you were scum posturing, if I look through your ISO.

[Varsoon]

Massclaim
more like
assclaim

I'm baking anti-mass claim mechanics into all my future setups BRB

Why do you dislike mass claims? I agree. they should never be done until later into the game but not at all?

I admit, I was very sore about that last game as I was about being copped but mass claiming can help town when you get closer to LYLO.

Massclaim is discouraged this game 'cause scum has fakeclaims made specially for them

3- This game most certainly canNot be broken by flavor-gaming or mass claiming. (I will still advise against the practice though)

4- If you didn't get it: All anti-Town players have been provided with proper fake claims.

I wonder if those fake claims involve flavour. He says no flavour gaming but I was able to help solve Labrynth based on the fake flavour connection between scum!Chick and scum!rando in that one.

Alright I see now how claiming anything just helps scum. :/

Because I like to win because I was smart and not because of a setup being poorly designed.
Flavor gaming/mass claiming are both gimmick plays to exploit the design of a setup and, to me, are against the spirit of the game.
Like yeah I'll go along with whatever shit because it'll win but it's still garbage and I hate it.
I could go into it more but that's the simple of it.

[Varsoon]

Part of what had me cackling all throughout FFTactics was that people thought they could organize some mass-play nonsense and win
When what they should've just done was fucking caught scum.

[Varsoon]

The short answer is, of course, 'Design a game that can't be flavor-gamed or won on a massclaim'
The problem is that having enjoyable flavor often is difficult to do while avoiding flavor-gaming just winning it
The problem is that designing a role madness non-normal setup is difficult to do with massclaim in mind
It can be done and I'd argue I've done it before but
It's annoying when you DO design it right and players still try to exploit stuff like that for an advantage.

[Varsoon]

It sucks to be on the losing side of that shit, regardless of what that side is.
Honestly, it sucks to be on the winning side of that shit, too. It feels empty to me.
It's entirely divorced from why I play mafia. It's why I avoid open setups like the plague. It's why I haven't signed up for any more newbie games despite enjoying them a good deal as of late.

[Flavor Leaf]

Can we stop talking about me so much. Thanks.

There ain’t no fake Flavor, I’m as real as my love for Hebichan.

[Varsoon]

The irony is that what I really want to play is a mountainous game, ideally.
But a lot of players derive more engagement with the game if there are roles there
And I enjoy rendering flavor of themes I like as mafia mechanics and roles
So the challenge I give myself is attempting to render out a setup with fitting roles and flavor where the role interactions help propel a game of rhetoric rather than supersede it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Side note, I was super busy with a project yesterday, and fell behind. I probably won’t be able to catch up until way tonight or maybe tomorrow. I’ll probably post a little bit from time to time commenting on my thoughts from the current page, but analyzing the previous pages is going to be put off until i get some time. Just letting you know.

[Varsoon]

Like real talk Massclaims win games no lie
And some games are designed around the inevitability of a massclaim given role arrangements (see: any worth-a-shit designed semi-open)
But I still think that shit is really lame as fuck

[profii]

I’m as real as my love for Hebichan.

:puke:

[profii]

that's the one - I guess BEF is saying he is trying to remain objective but by not finding out if your case has any merit is one way to do it I suppose

I don’t think he was doing that. Completely dismissing my case would be scummy, saying you need more info, seems fine to me.

If you read Majiffy’s posts in that game, you can see he is being super solvey and clearly trying to advance the gamestate.

I haven’t really seen him do that here yet.

That's my point - it's scummy if Majiffy is actually scum, but if he is town, its a bad scum move - because if Majiffy is town, a scum player would need to leave the door open to perhaps mislynch that dude at some point - if they have already said nope town, then its gonna look bad if they jump on a wagon later or whatever.

So I'm saying there could be a world where Majiffy is town and BEF is leaving the door open to read Majiffy how it pleases him later.



Also - I am not sure how clear I was on your 'demotion' in my list - the reason i did it was because you were like under loads of pressure and then this random meta Majiffy case appears - like it came over as "hey guys i know you all wanna lynch me, but look I can find scum... here, this guy... and I've even found like a reason and everything... please leave me alone"

Some might say LAMIST for short.

[Reasonably Rational]

BEF, when you manage to get caught up, talk to me. I’m not discussing old posts.

Posts from 14 hours prior are "old posts"? You flew off the handle at like less than 25% of the votes needed to be lynched and demanded to be hard town read by people because you flew off the handle. Those will

NEVER

be "old posts" for as long as you remain alive in this game.

At this point if you actually

ARE

town, you should be trying to figure out how to get yourself night killed because you are a walking "Leave me till M/LYLO so you can win" sign for scum.

~D

[CheekyTeeky]

Instead of reading the game from the start I'm just going to ISO skim people in alphabetical order. I've just finished Davesaz and this is where I'm at:

Town lean
Fish
Chick

Nullish/conflicted
BuJaber
Creature
Davesaz

Scum lean
Alchemist
Amzela

Alchemist you said that your post 366 explained your naked vote on Fish but that post seems to be talking more about Drewva than fish. Can you elaborate on your reads on both Fish and Drewva?

Amzela - what is your read on RR currently? I think you've implied you think they are town. Do you have reads on anyone, particularly those that have been pushing you?

Consider my list a bookmark until I can get more done.

[Almost50]

Clarification

This is a clarification on what is/is not bastard for me:

According to site meta roles such as

Godfather, Miller, Redirector, Lightning Rod, Nexus, Bus Driver, Jester, Lyncher.. etc

are

NOT BASTARD.

These roles exist on the wiki, and are to be reasonably expected to exist in non-normal games.

The same applies to several killing roles/mechanics. You didn't join a game titled "Overkill" and themed after Stallone expecting 1-2 kills per night, did you?

So, what is BASTARD?

1-

Bastard MODDING:

This includes telling a player they win with the Town when they don't, or telling them they are a Cop when they are a Serial Killer. This also applies to "hidden votes" (someone brought that up) as it would be me lying to the player and the whole game outside of reasonable expectations. (This doesn't apply to -say- Loved/hated modifiers since the player(s) are notified of them in their Role PM(s) already, plus the roles/modifiers are fairly expected).

2-

Bastard ROLES:

These include all alignment changing roles in mid-game. Cults, Saulus, Judas .. etc. are roles I would consider bastard because "switch sides", meaning the player could play actively towards a certain win con/objective only to find themselves flipping against what they had worked hard to achieve from the start. In a way, that IS a mod lie, or a hidden win con (they don't know if it will happen or not even if told they are a Judas or that there is a Cult in play)

In short: I guarantee there are no mod lies and no alignment switches in this game.

[Wisdom]

so basically there's a jester and prolly a lyncher

[DrewVa]

Only if he's floundering in his role. Dangan Ronpa V3 mafia comes to mind.

Most of the time, probably not.

I was legit shocked at reading that. I thought him death tunnelling Nero was a fluke but he always says he can read Kokichi. Obviously not.

[Wisdom]

danganronpa was my first game with kokichi

[DrewVa]

that's the one - I guess BEF is saying he is trying to remain objective but by not finding out if your case has any merit is one way to do it I suppose

I don’t think he was doing that. Completely dismissing my case would be scummy, saying you need more info, seems fine to me.

If you read Majiffy’s posts in that game, you can see he is being super solvey and clearly trying to advance the gamestate.

I haven’t really seen him do that here yet.

That's my point - it's scummy if Majiffy is actually scum, but if he is town, its a bad scum move - because if Majiffy is town, a scum player would need to leave the door open to perhaps mislynch that dude at some point - if they have already said nope town, then its gonna look bad if they jump on a wagon later or whatever.

So I'm saying there could be a world where Majiffy is town and BEF is leaving the door open to read Majiffy how it pleases him later.



Also - I am not sure how clear I was on your 'demotion' in my list - the reason i did it was because you were like under loads of pressure and then this random meta Majiffy case appears - like it came over as "hey guys i know you all wanna lynch me, but look I can find scum... here, this guy... and I've even found like a reason and everything... please leave me alone"

Some might say LAMIST for short.

What you suggest is definitely possible wrt BEF but not necessarily probable. Sometimes a cigar really is just a cigar lol. So, I should keep obsessing over votes on me and not try to scumhunt? How does that make any sense?