A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Jingle]

HurtCount 4.6:

Ineligible Players:

Inviz: () Gonna steal this from the next vote count, but there's no point in gladiating a probably modkill.
Adalbert: (0)
Mastina: (4) Firebringer, Creature, Meme Men, Aristophanes

Eligible Players

Nicorobin: (8) Invisibility,

JJH

, Meme Men, Jingle, Lady Angel, Vecna, Porkens, Gamma Emerald
Whemestar: (7) Meme Men, Vecna, Creature, Jingle, Porkens, mastina, Nero Cain
Firebringer: (5) Vecna, Lady Angel, Mastina, Meme Men, Gamma Emerald
Aristophanes: (3) NSG, Meme Men, jjh
jjh927: (3) Porkens, Meme Men, Shoshin
Creature: (3) Meme Men, Vecna, Adalbert Steiner
Shoshin: (3) Meme Men, Jingle, Porkens
Lady Angel: (4) Meme Men, Jingle, Porkens, mastina
Nero Cain: (2) Meme Men, Vecna,
Northsidegal: (2) Nero Cain, Meme Men
Gamma Emerald: (2) Meme Men, Vecna
Porkens: (2) Meme Men, Creature
Jingle: (1) Meme Men
Vecna: (1) Meme Men
The MEME Men: (1) Meme Men

With 18 alive, 10 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

End the Game: (1) Firebringer

[Jingle]

Whoops. 4 should be greater than 3.

Also,

UNVOTE:

[Gamma Emerald]

This game is still going on because like three people are like “let’s continue” or “yeah w/e let’s finish”
But everyone has stated a desire that this game isn’t fun. That most of us are forcing our way through and that we continue this argument and even the people who want to continue are just doing it out of some sense of misplaced obligation to finish it.

Listen why don’t we all take a hard vote.
If more than a majority wants this game I will shut up and fake my way through it.

But this is seriously dumb.


Let’s do a vote

It’ll be fun once we resolve this rut the game is in
I waited a long time for this game, I’m not having it end prematurely you fucking replacer

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: fire

[mastina]

You’re not arguing directly, you’re arguing using gif analysis.

And that's all the argument warrants. It does not deserve the dignity of a direct response because that's what I think of the point: not worth spending time to directly address.

I'm very adamant about lynching/gladiating Nico, meta or not.

Okay.

Try this on for size.

What do you think about how Varsoon treated Nico Robin?

Don't remember?

That's okay, lemme give a refresher.

So why don't we make Mastina gladiate Nico
And then if it works
We can either lynch Mastina or just use my role if we want to lynch outside those two?

Nico fucked up their gambit by forgetting they already outted how their role works.
So then when Nico got called out on it, they admitted it was a lie, but failed to reveal what they got out lying, hinting that lying wasn't really a gambit but just a power play to try to get Mastina quicklynched.
Then they walked it back to the 48 hour thing.
All while JJH claimed deathproof with probable assumption that scum-Nico, who was under fire by JJH, goes for a kill on him--we had no death, so possible.
Nico denies, blames JJH and/or Jingle for their role not working the way it should (how?) and then insists that there are plenty of other explanations for why there'd be a no-kill, to which Jingle corroborates that there is a loud doctor but doubts it blocked the kill.

I think that's the whole of it?

Porkens rejected the thing and so NR got the triple vote

So what's keeping scum!mastina from rejecting the thing?
I don't understand why nico thought that gambit made sense, considering the above.

Wouldn't it look worse if the guy who was deathtunneling her died?
/shrugs
Regardless
I don't think it's a good look for Nico any way you come at it, but
What now?

Oh hey it's just occurred to me that Nico submits her action at night and Mastina got the thing which means she can't have been blocked in any way

ayyyyy

So....
Why did Mastina claim your message is about a role, then?

So Nico is lying, and Porkens can back me up here. I was told, "Nico is demanding your role; you have 48 hours to comply, or she becomes a triple voter for you."

The easiest solution to this is just to lynch NicoRobin. If they are town, then they weren't lying (or at least we can parse what was a lie and what wasn't) and we proceed like that. If they were scum, then cool.

Otherwise, what can we do?
Only other solution is for us to try to shackle Nico and dictate who she visits, but there's about a dozen ways that could go wrong.

(OH HEY THIS STANCE SEEMS SUSPICIOUSLY SIMILAR. SWITCH OUT NICO, AND WHO DO YOU SUBSTITUTE IN FOR THIS TO STILL FIT?)

VOTE: NicoRobin
Right?
If every conversation is just going to come back to this
Or Mastina
Let's solve it.

It's at least more than cowtowing to Mastina and/or NicoRobin's play, so even though it's literally wrong, I'm still for it.

BTW at work so the soonest you'll get a content post from me is in over 3 hours, but I'd like to reiterate.
If you think Nico is scum, ask yourself, "how does this make sense coming from scum?".
You might default to, "scum caught in a lie, backtracking"…
…Except. While that may work as an explanation for some scummers. It doesn't work as an explanation for NICO. Quite the opposite, it's the very proof that she's town. You might struggle to understand how it makes sense coming from town, but serious question.

How many games have you played?
In how many of those games, was there a town player whose actions made no sense, but they were still town?

You're outright ignorant or lying if it hasn't happened in at least a third of your games.

It's a little difficult to show because she has a dozen past accounts, but I can show Nico's quite extensive history of this sort of thing.

I've MODDED plenty of games that Nico's played. I understand where that play is coming from.
On one level, you're right, Nico is earnest and that earnesty is NAI.
But let's look at what Nico was earnest about--
Faking a guilty
Lying about their role
And when they realized they messed both up, they walked both things back in defense of self.
Why does town!Nico need to defend self and isn't just suicidal in a push/absolutely defeatist when it doesn't work out?
Why does town!Nico fake a guilty and lie about role against you?
It doesn't make sense to me.

Surprise surprise that I call this out and call out the forced crawl this game has been bent over backwards into and both Nico and Mastina are hard aggro on me for it

Congrats for identifying that Nico/Yume has played in games before, Mastina. Real ace detective work. You sure showed us.

You wanna talk cool meta points? Why not bring up how I play exactly this way in every single game I replace-in to this deep in as town?
Oh but nooooo suddenly can't mention meta when maybe you can't warp it to fit your own desiresssss

Garbage trash, please get lynched and die.
I shouldn't have to do anything besides point out that you alone have been responsible for why there has not been a lynch yet in this fucking TWO HUNDRED PAGE GAME
Fuck off with your self-righteous bullshit and eat some rope. Town-Mastina doesn't play this way and RC doesn't make that role as a town role.

HURT: Vecna, NicoRobin, NeroCain

I mean.

If you don't buy my meta defense.

Then sure, fuck meta, but I don't need meta defense anymore.

I need only point to Varsoon's interactions for proof that Nico is not his scum partner.

And with that done.

What do you think?

[mastina]

For those too lazy to read:

Nico Robin was, consistently, Varsoon's strongest scumread in the game, side-by-side with me.
Varsoon's complaints about NicoRobin are a direct echo to his complaints about me.
He rants about her role the same way he rants about my role; he tries to twist meta the same way on her that he did on me; he tried to pin blame on her the same way he did to me.

The treatment is, literally, identical.

If you have taken the stance that Varsoon's interactions clear me of scum, then why the FUCK are you scumreading the player who should arguably be even MORE cleared by them than me?

[mastina]

Can you revisit that tomorrow? Today would be a pretty bad day to lynch Fire

In my experience.

That makes today the BEST day to lynch Fire.

VOTE: invisibility

While Invisibility is indeed scum, this is a bad idea--it divides our efforts between two equally viable lynch wagons, Invisibility and Firebringer. The result of splitting in half like that is that neither will be lynched.

So, save it for tomorrow; lynch Firebringer today.

[WhemeStar]

Fire votes are dumb

VOTE: Jingle

[mastina]

What did mastina do today other than complain I'm bad?

This could, oh.
I dunno.
Be solved by.
Yaknow.

Spoiler: ...Reading my fucking posts?

VOTE: Firebringer
Choo-choo

Seems like a plan to me!
VOTE: Firebringer.

Why are you voting me when its clear that if i was fucking scum i would have fucking killed mastina for my own fucking sanity.

Considering in all our games together you've never once nightkilled me when you've been scum?

Why the fuck would you.

My death would actually be evidence you're town because you'd never nightkill me.

I was fucking right about the people whining containing scum.

^The implication being that they

still

do.

Mastina if everyone annoyed at your slow af pace in deciding to gladiate contains scum then I think we have a 10-15 person scum team
-rh

Contains scum != comprised entirely of scum.

There are around 8 players who have complained, give or take a couple.

Of that number, one flipped scum and I am expecting half total to be scum, thereabouts. So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

Nobody asked me to name names, but I easily can!

So of the original 6-10, there'd be 3-5 scum.

this surface level reasoning is beneath mastina as town

Oh it sure is if this were my only reasoning but it's not.

What's my other reasoning?

Maybe you should actually try an iso of me and refer to my readslists in particular because I explain it in there.

The players I am scumreading are, pretty much almost entirely, contained in the complainers.

But the scumread doesn't come from the complaining, although their complaining is part of my reasoning for scumreading them.

If that doesn't make sense.

Again.

Read my fucking posts.

And it will then.

(^If I could nest spoilers, I would make a spoiler showing the specific posts I am referencing right here to prove why this is relevant content, but alas, not a feature we have.)

Varsoon used his power about 36 hours or so before day's deadline--12 hours or so before I was going to use my gladiate.

You know WHY he used his power?

Eligible Players
Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (9) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin, Vecna
Vecna: (6) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (5) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (2) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

One of my strongest townreads, my read which is stronger a townread than a fucking soulread, or my second-strongest scumread.

GEE I WONDER WHO THE FUCK I WOULD GLADIATE GIVEN THE CHANCE TO BE A TIEBREAKER.

Did your read of LA or vizzy change at all after the flip? stronger? weaker? how much higher is fire than the others?

Why would my read on them change even remotely?

My reads are all interconnected. My townreads on all townreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads; my scumreads on all scumreads increase and decrease with the rise and fall of townreads and scumreads.

But Varsoon was my second-strongest scumread.

And V flipped scum.

He flipped exactly what I thought he was.

So why would my reads in any way be different, when he was exactly what I thought he was? Of course they're the same because having confirmation of what I already knew doesn't really do anything. Anyone claiming it does would, frankly, raise a red flag for me.

GE 90% town.

NR 70% town.

LA probscum.

Flip the town percentages here and welcome to what my reads are!

(^The entirety of this is relevant. Varsoon used his power because the alternative lynches were Jingle and NicoRobin--this gives

strong

evidence that both Jingle and NicoRobin are town, not to mention corroborating that, yes, scum were afraid of my power being used.

It gives an update on my reads; the strength and reasoning behind them remains unchanged.

It also gives new information: a rough estimate of percentages for my reads. If you read Nico as being around 90%--more accurately, 95--and Gamma as being around 70%, then suddenly, when you go check back on my readslist, you have a convenient reference for read strength:

Ginngie/Jingle: (100%)
KuroiXHF
Chickadee
NicoRobin (95%)

Nosferatu/Creature
Nero Cain
randomidget/Aristophanes
Gamma Emerald (70%)
jjh927
Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)/northsidegal
Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)/The Meme Men

Invisibility (THIS READ IS THE ONLY CHANGED ONE AS INVISIBILITY IS MUCH LOWER)
Porkens
Vecna

Whemestar

Lady Angel

Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)/Firebringer

As so.

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

Yeah uh.
Let's run through the list of redirector roles here.
If it's a redirector--why would a town redirector redirect Nico to Jingle? He's a ridiculously town player, and when a town player uses redirection, they are attempting to redirect negative actions onto scummy players. So, not a town redirection.
If it's a scum redirector, then Nico and Jingle are both town.

If it's a busdriver--why would a town busdriver busdrive Jingle and jjh? Again, the idea of redirection is to redirect actions which were meant to be good for scum to be bad for scum, yet trading Jingle and jjh is just trading two players who are basically filling the exact same mold of town mechanical solving genius. (More or less, anyway.)

If Jingle were a lightning rod, he'd just claim as much.
If jjh were a nexus, he'd just claim as much.
If it were a deflector, again, why would a town deflector deflect from one town player onto another town player?
Why would a scum deflector deflect on town, or if choosing to do so, deflect from one town to an incredibly similar town?

I'm probably missing some redirection roles here (in fact I know I am), but no matter how you slice it, this is pretty definitive evidence suggesting there's at least two town but probably three town in Nico/jjh/Jingle.

The presence of an unclaimed redirector, fairly strongly confirmed to exist because NicoRobin is not the type of player to invent that particular type of lie, is a strong indicator that she is town.

To be clear, I didn't replace anyone.

I signed up for the game originally and got a role PM back when the game started. My role was delayed entrance townie, because it fit with my character as myself from Labyrinth Mafia where my reads were ignored for most of the game. RC gave me a PM so that I could make notes while the game went on, and I did that for the first 10 pages or so, but not being in the game really killed my motivation to keep up, so I'm reading through now.

Btw, I can confirm--at some point I coulda SWORN I saw a list which had Shoshin as one of the players in the game. So I know that Shoshin's not lying here. Shoshin WAS a player at some point, just removed, and I buy the roleclaim here entirely.

The scumteam of Labyrinth Mafia quake in fear, as Shoshin has entered the game.

I love having myself a free extra town member.

Cool this game is bastard

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllll......

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1)

The setup consists of 5 scum, 16 town, and 2 players who can be town, mafia, or third party.

2) Whether the setup is bastard or not, there will not be any mechanics that involve lying to players outside of standard fare (ninjas, godfathers).

Subject: Anything uPick (22)

15) This setup is bastard* (not really).

Setup Information:

1) The setup is confirmed as having faction numbers minus the final player. The final player's alignment may be {Town, Scum, 3P}. Traitors and similar count as scum.
3) From the day the game fills you have 2 days to send in a pick. Failure to do so and I will pick for you.
4) The game will be bastard* (not really) and role madness.

Noting that I received 2 complaints about a past role that deleted Ellibereth/Beeboy's post history. I don't intend to make a bastard game and I don't like bastard roles and I don't lie to players, but I'm covering my bases here.

What's the inverse mechanic to deleting a player from the game?

Why, adding them, of course.

I give a read on the new member--town--and also back them up on their claimed narrative.

The answer: a whole fuckload more than YOU have done, hypocrite. Because let me bounce that question back.
Seriously.
What have YOU done this day phase, other than bitch about me?

[mastina]

I'd like to once again reiterate the reasons why NicoRobin is town.

1. Strong Meta Reasoning From a Long Game History with her.
   
2. Lack of scum incentive for her actions.
   The actions might work as things scum might do in general, but don't work as things
   NicoRobin
   does as scum.
   
3. "But she COULD be doing this specifically to manipulate her meta!" is the leading counterargument, but that argument is shit, because it is basically, "but it COULD be WIFOM!", in a game where you can argue literally anything could be wifom. Yes it can in theory; that doesn't mean in reality it actually is. Applying occam's razor--the simpler explanation applies--which is more likely?
   NicoRobin JUST SO HAPPENED to choose her actions this game specifically to manipulate her meta in specific ways...
   ...Or that what you see is what you get and they are just indicative of town?
   
4. Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.
   Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.
   
5. Varsoon used his power when he was the main person on the chopping block.
   If NicoRobin were scum, then Varsoon would not have had reason to use his power, since he could save her the old-fashioned way: let himself take the brunt of my blow, and by proxy, save her. If he wanted to save himself, however, there must have been a reason; the most obvious is that the other lynch candidates were town and he was hoping one of them would bite the bullet.
   
6. There is an unclaimed redirector which was utilized in a way incredibly pro-scum, indicating strongly that NicoRobin is town.
   Aside from the scummy nature of the redirect power's usage, there's also the fact that if it were a town power, the player would have claimed it to clear up the situation. That they haven't, that they are trying to hide its existence, gives evidence that it originates from scum.

And this isn't even a complete list.

[mastina]

Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.

Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.

If you don't think that's a valid argument "because, bussing", let me then point you to your own fucking responses to Nico insisting that V was bussing me.

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

So either accept that it wasn't bussing, or discard your fucking defense of me against Nico (and by proxy, discard the point against her that she's arguing something ridiculous), don't particularly care which, but I feel like this is a damn fucking solid point illustrating why I fucking know what I am talking about.

NicoRobin is town.

[mastina]

Varsoon named her as his preferred lynch.

Even more than he attacked me, arguably. I had immunity due to my power; NicoRobin had no such immunity, thus, an attack on her carries even more weight. Don't believe me? Why don't you read his iso yourself, control-fing for "Nico" and "Robin". I even pre-highlighted Nico, and also the rough spot where it gets juicy.

If you don't think that's a valid argument "because, bussing", let me then point you to your own fucking responses to Nico insisting that V was bussing me.

Can't have your cake and eat it, too.

So either accept that it wasn't bussing, or discard your fucking defense of me against Nico (and by proxy, discard the point against her that she's arguing something ridiculous), don't particularly care which, but I feel like this is a damn fucking solid point illustrating why I fucking know what I am talking about.

NicoRobin is town.

By this, I mean.
NicoRobin has continued to attack me after Varsoon's flip, arguing it was bussing.
People have called that suspicious/scummy, saying that V's flip should make it abundantly clear it wasn't bussing.

Except.
By arguing NicoRobin as scum.

You are making the same argument she is.

Because Varsoon was heavily, HEAVILY attacking NicoRobin.
Thus.
For NicoRobin to be scum...
...Varsoon would need to have been bussing.
The thing you are saying he didn't do, RE: me.

So I stand by what I said. You can't have your cake and eat it too. I don't particularly care which of the two you discard, but you can't keep arguing both sides.

[mastina]

So is mastina on a date since October?

No, but I've been sick since before October and frequent dates help rejuvenate me and literally, keep me alive in every sense of the word. I'd be dead without dating my girlfriend; I'm absolutely sure of it.

This game is still going on because like three people are like “let’s continue” or “yeah w/e let’s finish”
But everyone has stated a desire that this game isn’t fun.

I both want the game to continue and am having fun.

I am advocating for a Firebringer gladiate

Please do this.

I need majority to do so. Believe me I want to.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Firebringer

Please just gladiate it.

[Shoshin]

Can we just lynch Fire?

[Firebringer]

we could if you rather be in a game filled with walls of crap and zero fun.

yeah thats sounds good.

[THE MEME MEN]

I'm actually with FB - stalled games are no fun for ANYONE.

If mastina is seriously going to gladiate but wants majority, fine, I too want her to gladiate FB.

-LH

[Firebringer]

she could literally gladiate me at any time.
no one would fucking care.

hell people would be happy if she would gladiate me now.
but she wont because she is a fucking cancer to this game.

[THE MEME MEN]

Because by now , it's clear that we can't even get a majority lynch to happen. Did we ever even attain majority lynch on ANY of the phases? Exactly.

-LH


pedit: yeah I'm with you, FB. The stalling is insane.

[THE MEME MEN]

on ANY of the phases?

of the *day* phases

[Firebringer]

why aren't u voting to end the game?
why are we playing this.

i feel like i am the only sane person for not wanting to play this game.

[Firebringer]

It’ll be fun once we resolve this rut the game is in
I waited a long time for this game, I’m not having it end prematurely you fucking replacer

also u have replaced out of way more games than me. go fuck yourself.
played more than 140 games of mafia.

replaced out of 8.

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t think wheme is town anymore

[Gamma Emerald]

It’ll be fun once we resolve this rut the game is in
I waited a long time for this game, I’m not having it end prematurely you fucking replacer

also u have replaced out of way more games than me. go fuck yourself.
played more than 140 games of mafia.

replaced out of 8.

Idc
You didn’t have to pick for the games, wait a week or more, and then get told “oh all this time you spent gets wasted on a called game”. I am invested in this unlike you, so your opinion is not worth the same as mine.

[Gamma Emerald]

she could literally gladiate me at any time.
no one would fucking care.

hell people would be happy if she would gladiate me now.
but she wont because she is a fucking cancer to this game.

Although this post is damn near true

@mastina:

PEOPLE ARE BACKING YOUR DESIRED PLAY, MAKE A FUCKING MOVE