Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[Varsoon]

DrewVa, here's the thing;
RR was scumreading your slot for their reasons
You asked them to stop being mean, which I believe they took as 'stop pushing a scumread on me because it is mean to do so' rather than 'stop using such aggressive rhetoric it bothers me'
So Drixx, who has a huge problem with people leveraging AtE like that, doubled down on that stance.
At least that's what I've taken from it, if that makes sense.

[Varsoon]

So like, from Drixx's PoV your play is still rhetorical/game-based and him sticking to his convictions of a scumread isn't intended as disrespect
Which becomes more of an issue because he takes a harder rhetorical stance that feels like it invalidates your feelings or twists them in some way/makes you out as some emotional bully which, imo, you're not.

[DrewVa]

P.edit Drixx, I think you’re being kind of mean to me here. Please stop it. Thanks.

If I'm reading correctly, the above ^ is a response to the below

I expect more activity from creature,

thor, RR

, CT.

Both Thor and RR have posted every day. Was there more you were expecting there? Were you expecting uber posting?

They both took a commanding role in overkill 1.
Granted Thor was SK so perhaps not the best comparison but I assume he was playing similar to how he would as town. I've never been SK just seems like the right way to play it.

We always take a commanding role, regardless of alignment. We don't always do it in the early parts of day one in a very large game. We also don't always ignore relatives in town for major holidays (I've had family over for a week already, for example).

Also ... we've already put out at least two solid rationales for why Hebichan and Drewva are looking quite bad from things they posted this game. I'm not sure how much more other people are "commanding" the game atm? I see a lot of people ignoring or hand waving away Hebichan's lying and by some bizarre twist of reasoning, nearly everyone seems to think Nancy's histrionics and circular reasoning are a reason to town read the Drewva hydra.

Not sure what more you want here bud. Maybe be a bit more specific?

~D

Happy Thanksgiving to all the {Insert correct terminology here}™

I don't really get what's mean about this post.

I didn’t appreciate the term, “histrionics”. I found it disrespectful. Again, overkill. Gamma’s “high strung” OTOH isn’t. Do you see my point yet?

[pinturicchio]

DrewVa, here's the thing;
RR was scumreading your slot for their reasons
You asked them to stop being mean, which I believe they took as 'stop pushing a scumread on me because it is mean to do so' rather than 'stop using such aggressive rhetoric it bothers me'
So Drixx, who has a huge problem with people leveraging AtE like that, doubled down on that stance.
At least that's what I've taken from it, if that makes sense.

This is where I stand, too. I understand 100% you Nancy and validate that feeling, but looked from the outside of the conflict, it doesn't feel like Drixx crossed any line; seems like you got it like a personal attack before he could even know what was going on with you.

That being said, seems like you feel a little better now, or at least that's what I get with your last replies. Could we all keep the game going? If anyone wants to talk about the conflict in order to catch scum, no problem, but keep talking about the conflict for the sake of it is not healthy.

[Varsoon]

'Histrionics' sure is a 5 dollar word that I haven't seen used since I was in college.
I get where you're coming from but, again, I reiterate that it's not an invalid position for RR to have in context of both that post and this as a game of mafia.

Anyway surprised the thread hasn't locked yet.

[Varsoon]

Also havin a laff that profii straight ghosted.
Probably to go tell scumbuddies what to do post-flip.

[Reasonably Rational]

So like, from Drixx's PoV your play is still rhetorical/game-based and him sticking to his convictions of a scumread isn't intended as disrespect
Which becomes more of an issue because he takes a harder rhetorical stance that feels like it invalidates your feelings or twists them in some way/makes you out as some emotional bully which, imo, you're not.

Agree to disagree I suppose. Telling someone that a large post (without any specifics) is "mean" and then putting emotional leverage ("I'll replace out if you don't stop") is definitely bullying. Any time someone tries to use his presence or participation for leverage, they are bullying the person whom they are attempting to leverage. It's one of the oldest tactics on both the internet and in the school yard. "Do what I say or else I take my marbles and go home" is a rough example.

P.edit Drixx, I think you’re being kind of mean to me here. Please stop it. Thanks.

If I'm reading correctly, the above ^ is a response to the below

I expect more activity from creature,

thor, RR

, CT.

Both Thor and RR have posted every day. Was there more you were expecting there? Were you expecting uber posting?

They both took a commanding role in overkill 1.
Granted Thor was SK so perhaps not the best comparison but I assume he was playing similar to how he would as town. I've never been SK just seems like the right way to play it.

We always take a commanding role, regardless of alignment. We don't always do it in the early parts of day one in a very large game. We also don't always ignore relatives in town for major holidays (I've had family over for a week already, for example).

Also ... we've already put out at least two solid rationales for why Hebichan and Drewva are looking quite bad from things they posted this game. I'm not sure how much more other people are "commanding" the game atm? I see a lot of people ignoring or hand waving away Hebichan's lying and by some bizarre twist of reasoning, nearly everyone seems to think Nancy's histrionics and circular reasoning are a reason to town read the Drewva hydra.

Not sure what more you want here bud. Maybe be a bit more specific?

~D

Happy Thanksgiving to all the {Insert correct terminology here}™

I don't really get what's mean about this post.

I didn’t appreciate the term, “histrionics”. I found it disrespectful. Again, overkill. Gamma’s “high strung” OTOH isn’t. Do you see my point yet?

Nope. I gave you the precise definition I have for the word. Your posting which I was referring to definitely fits that bill, with the only "grey area" being whether or not you are being honest. I believe the circular logic you used (and your continued denial that you tried to leverage meta into a town read, even when I went and dug it up for you) makes me believe that it is more likely that you are using your meta and posts here for leverage.

Like ... that's one of the main parts of this game. Figure out who is being sincere and who isn't. You are almost certainly genuinely upset but you can be genuinely upset and also be !town.

BTW - If someone quoted me and referred to an ATE post (which I do make from time to time, unlike Cerb) as "histrionics" ... I wouldn't be the least bit offended. That would be describing my play/actions/words and NOT labeling ME the person. On the other hand, if someone put a label on ME the person ... for example: "Drixx is really high strung" ... then I would be more likely to be irritated by that. That's the line in mafia. Go after play not people.

So you are taking a commentary about your play ... a THING you DID ... as offensive but don't seem to be bothered by someone giving you the real person a personal label based upon that play.

So yeah ... I don't see your point. One is against the spirit of the game and one is precisely the spirit of the game.

~D

P.S. - All prep done, Turkey is nearly done and the last sides are nearly done. It's time to go food coma.

[Reasonably Rational]

Also havin a laff that profii straight ghosted.
Probably to go tell scumbuddies what to do post-flip.

I'm really torn by this post Scat Man. Like ... I totally had my strongest scum read on profii and the only rational response to an apparent day kill is to say whatever you need to say and disappearing is generally the act of scum who don't trust themselves with WINE but ... man this is so much gloating on your part.

~D

[pinturicchio]

Also @pintu I just realized that you're from Chile! Come up and eat turkey with us.

Well I think it's a little late to join, but thanks!
By the way, happy Thanksgiving, Friendsgiving or whatever you celebrate today for everyone from the States. Or not, that's cool too.

[DrewVa]

And the correct terminology is

Pilgrims

P-EDIT:
Ditto. I don't think you should stop playing games either, just be aware that people will interpret genuine expression as rhetorical manipulation a lot.
I've gotten mad frustrated with games and literally scoffed at and told to stop AtE'ing tons. It's wild out there.
I still think you should keep playin and I still value you a ton as a player <3

P-P-EDIT:
The previous was for RR, then Nancy; this Post-Preview-Edit is for RCE;
I've moderated like 90% of the games RR's played on-site, I think. I even helped build and spectated Overkill 1. If anyone's cognizant of RR's meta, it's me. A lot of stuff here points to RR's town rhetoric, but a lot of the play is very meta-contrary regardless of alignment, if that makes sense. Cerb-head already spoke towards being aware of this and seeing if people would catch on, so there's a bit of WIFOM there regardless.
Tbh, kinda hoping that they just get killed so I don't have to sort them but their play will make their alignment real evident in time--I've got em as town (possible third party) for now, but I don't see this play as coming from scum RR whatsoever.

Thanks. <3 I hope you feel better. I think I’m locking you and Fort as town for now. I also think RR is wrong about hebi. I don’t see scum!hebi referencing that Wisdom game. I think DVa is wrong about FL being an SK, I don’t have a strong read on him but nothing pinging so far. I think Pint/Tails might be town. Gamma also likely town. Only really have 2 possible scumreads so far: Wisdom/Majiffy.

Obviously with 26 players in this game, most are fooling me or are under the radar.

I think Azalea might also be town. She just seems really genuine in her posts. Hopefully my reads will get better as the game progresses.

[pinturicchio]

Anyway surprised the thread hasn't locked yet.

Never played with a DayVig before. Does that mean that there'll be no lynch today?

If that's the case, I think I'm in a position where killing me at night is a good choice, so my two cents: TRUST NO ONE, NOT EVEN YOURSELF.

Just kidding, I still think RR and BuJaber are town, add Varsoon and the panda from Ranma 1/2 to the list. I like Tails too. Wisdom and DrewVa, look out for them.

[Varsoon]

I tend to infer bullying a lot harder as a situation where intimidation (and often social dynamics) are involved--but that's more from the PoV of an educator where the sort of bullying I deal with manifests as social and physical bullying.

Being like "Your rhetorical aggressiveness makes me uncomfortable to the point of wanting to replace out" comes off far less like bullying to me. It's not so much of a taking-the-ball-and-going home thing since the game can continue with a replacement and replacing out for personal reasons (such as feeling emotionally compromised from playing to wincon) are perfectly valid. I don't really see DrewVa's move to replace out as a threat so much as an actual indicator that your rhetoric is legitimately making them consider replacing out.

P-EDIT: That's what I'm saying. Profii's not confident enough to not spill the WINE.

P-P-EDIT: Day should continue but thread will lock so a flip can be posted and VC should reset.

[DrewVa]

DrewVa, here's the thing;
RR was scumreading your slot for their reasons
You asked them to stop being mean, which I believe they took as 'stop pushing a scumread on me because it is mean to do so' rather than 'stop using such aggressive rhetoric it bothers me'
So Drixx, who has a huge problem with people leveraging AtE like that, doubled down on that stance.
At least that's what I've taken from it, if that makes sense.

+1

Yes, exactly. You need to be the Drixx whisperer.

Except that I would substitute “aggressive” with “hurtful” or “disrespectful”.

- even if it wasn’t intended as such.

[DrewVa]

DrewVa, here's the thing;
RR was scumreading your slot for their reasons
You asked them to stop being mean, which I believe they took as 'stop pushing a scumread on me because it is mean to do so' rather than 'stop using such aggressive rhetoric it bothers me'
So Drixx, who has a huge problem with people leveraging AtE like that, doubled down on that stance.
At least that's what I've taken from it, if that makes sense.

This is where I stand, too. I understand 100% you Nancy and validate that feeling, but looked from the outside of the conflict, it doesn't feel like Drixx crossed any line; seems like you got it like a personal attack before he could even know what was going on with you.

That being said, seems like you feel a little better now, or at least that's what I get with your last replies. Could we all keep the game going? If anyone wants to talk about the conflict in order to catch scum, no problem, but keep talking about the conflict for the sake of it is not healthy.

Not at that point, it was in his reaction to my request where the real line crossing took place. Particularly the “safe space” comments but I find that word disrespectful and insulting to me and I’ve already explained why - countless upon countless times, only to get accused of being some kind of “bully” because I legit found having my feelings pejoratively labelled as “histrionics” disrespectful. And if RR want to persist in misreading as some fascist because of this, that’s on them.

If I’m seriously at the point in any game, where another player’s words are seriously causing me to consider replacing out, I have to say something. I don’t think it’s fair, that should be my only alternative to getting it to stop. Why should I feel pushed out of a game - even if that was never intended to be the case but I absolutely did feel that way, when he kept persisting with it, despite my objections.

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh god please let it just be this page that you people are garbaging with your irrelevant posts. Drewva needs to get over themselves and is probably scum because Nancy pulled the same AtE garbage on me last game. Anyway sifting through more isos now.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ooh a dayvig?

[profii]

Also havin a laff that profii straight ghosted.
Probably to go tell scumbuddies what to do post-flip.

In the middle of a 3 hour car journey

If you’re really a day vig... oh my

[CheekyTeeky]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball Obv scum.

[DrewVa]

I tend to infer bullying a lot harder as a situation where intimidation (and often social dynamics) are involved--but that's more from the PoV of an educator where the sort of bullying I deal with manifests as social and physical bullying.

Being like "Your rhetorical aggressiveness makes me uncomfortable to the point of wanting to replace out" comes off far less like bullying to me. It's not so much of a taking-the-ball-and-going home thing since the game can continue with a replacement and replacing out for personal reasons (such as feeling emotionally compromised from playing to wincon) are perfectly valid. I don't really see DrewVa's move to replace out as a threat so much as an actual indicator that your rhetoric is legitimately making them consider replacing out.

P-EDIT: That's what I'm saying. Profii's not confident enough to not spill the WINE.

P-P-EDIT: Day should continue but thread will lock so a flip can be posted and VC should reset.

Yes, I would never have said anything otherwise. I extremely dislike the kind of attention this whole thing has put on me. I wasn’t considering replacing out at the time, Drixx used the term, “hysterics” but I was bothered enough to realize I needed to be pro-active and try to nip it in the bud. The replacing out part happened, when he persisted with it. I don’t know how to deal with that. If I say to someone, please stop whatever, it’s really making me uncomfortable and they not only persist with it but even double down, it legit sends me into a panic - and yes there are very good reasons for that - nothing game-related. So that and that alone - was where the boundary crossing took place - when he made it clear that he didn’t GAF how his words were affecting me.

[profii]

I tend to infer bullying a lot harder as a situation where intimidation (and often social dynamics) are involved--but that's more from the PoV of an educator where the sort of bullying I deal with manifests as social and physical bullying.

Being like "Your rhetorical aggressiveness makes me uncomfortable to the point of wanting to replace out" comes off far less like bullying to me. It's not so much of a taking-the-ball-and-going home thing since the game can continue with a replacement and replacing out for personal reasons (such as feeling emotionally compromised from playing to wincon) are perfectly valid. I don't really see DrewVa's move to replace out as a threat so much as an actual indicator that your rhetoric is legitimately making them consider replacing out.

P-EDIT: That's what I'm saying. Profii's not confident enough to not spill the WINE.

P-P-EDIT: Day should continue but thread will lock so a flip can be posted and VC should reset.

Yes, I would never have said anything otherwise. I extremely dislike the kind of attention this whole thing has put on me. I wasn’t considering replacing out at the time, Drixx used the term, “hysterics” but I was bothered enough to realize I needed to be pro-active and try to nip it in the bud. The replacing out part happened, when he persisted with it. I don’t know how to deal with that. If I say to someone, please stop whatever, it’s really making me uncomfortable and they not only persist with it but even double down, it legit sends me into a panic - and yes there are very good reasons for that - nothing game-related. So that and that alone - was where the boundary crossing took place - when he made it clear that he didn’t GAF how his words were affecting me.

This post summarises my whole thought on the process - IMO it was more than obvious we were heading i this direction and I didn’t want to say shut up Drixz you’re being a dick (well I did)

So I just voted


Anyway, if I’m dead or not I’ll move on now...

[Toogeloo]

Dramas take 2 to tango

Tango and Cash crumb.

[DrewVa]

Oh god please let it just be this page that you people are garbaging with your irrelevant posts. Drewva needs to get over themselves and is probably scum because Nancy pulled the same AtE garbage on me last game. Anyway sifting through more isos now.

That is a complete lie. When did I ever threaten to replace out because of what you or anyone else said? Find me the quotes. I’m waiting.

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok prepare to be amazed:

{Farside/Alonzo, Fortain, Profii}
{Fish, Chick, Gamma, Hebichan, Pint, RCE, Tails, Varsoon, Wisdom, RR}
{Creature, Davesaz, Malakitty}
{BuJaber, Flavorleaf, Alchemist, Majiffy, Thor}
{Amzela, DrippingGoofball, DrewVa}

[profii]

Btw I’m about to head off but if Varsoon is not a day vig then we should lynch him - will explain when I arrive and can get access to a keyboard... 110 miles to go do couple hours

[CheekyTeeky]

Oh god please let it just be this page that you people are garbaging with your irrelevant posts. Drewva needs to get over themselves and is probably scum because Nancy pulled the same AtE garbage on me last game. Anyway sifting through more isos now.

That is a complete lie. When did I ever threaten to replace out because of what you or anyone else said? Find me the quotes. I’m waiting.

Yeah let's not interact for the remainder of the game, you really push my buttons.