Micro 831: Great Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[Persivul]

LOL - well that changes things.

[Persivul]

But no, it doesn't change things. I read the ISOs again. I still hate yours, and I still like dave and simeon.

[Persivul]

The 30 minute reread has me leaning towards davesaz being scum. His involvement on both the tazaro and maruchan wagons was basically "I think this person is scum and the wagon has support so I'll vote there".

But in reality, tazaro had a single vote. The wagon didn't have support. dave replaced in, gave a partial reads list, and put the second vote on tazaro in 177. Now the wagon had some support.

You

then came in just two posts later and basically said "I think this person is scum and the wagon has support so I'll vote there".

and yeah I'm in for this wagon. I've got other stuffs to do but I'll be back later tonight.

VOTE: Tazaro

[Micc]

Sortaru and I had expressed scumreads and Simeon was already voting Tazaro so I'd say there was support for the wagon before davesaz replaced in. At least as much support as any other wagon had at that point in the game.

I realize I didn't get back to the thread to explain my tazaro vote and that it looks pretty bad. I almost replaced out over that weekend but thankfully the night phase was enough of a break to get me through. Despite this I don't think davesaz's vote was any stronger than mine and yet no one is willing to consider that.

We're headed in the direction of losing this game by mislynching me out of default and I don't know what I can do about that.

[Persivul]

What do you mean by "out of default"?

[Micc]

Simeon, davesaz and Bob have all posted that I'm their scum read in some form or another without being willing to expand or engage me on it.

Now it's mylo and two of them got replaced and the third is on his way. not to mention bulbazoor's been in this game for over 48 hours without making a meaningful contribution. I know I've been somewhat apathetic about this game at times, but I'm here now and it will be really disappointing if we lose this game because "ehh whatever. let's just lynch Micc".

[Bulbazoor]

I like Persivul so far, but I didn't quite tr bob. Micc seems genuine atm

[davesaz]

I don't TR any of you. Might as well put it on the table.

[Persivul]

Sortaru and I had expressed scumreads and Simeon was already voting Tazaro so I'd say there was support for the wagon before davesaz replaced in. At least as much support as any other wagon had at that point in the game.

Expressing a scum read but not voting, only to vote once the wagon gains traction, is scummy AF.

I realize I didn't get back to the thread to explain my tazaro vote and that it looks pretty bad.

Yes, it does.

I almost replaced out over that weekend but thankfully the night phase was enough of a break to get me through. Despite this I don't think davesaz's vote was any stronger than mine and yet no one is willing to consider that.

1. davesaz gave a partial reads list upon placing in. I give that a lot of credit.

2. So, same situation - if you think it's scummy, why aren't you pushing him? Making weak suggestions in hope that someone else picks up the case and pushes it is a scum move.

We're headed in the direction of losing this game by mislynching me out of default and I don't know what I can do about that.

Push the person you think is scum. That's what you can do about it.

[Persivul]

I like Persivul so far, but I didn't quite tr bob.

You don't need to like or tr either of us. Scum doesn't fakeclaim one of the very few roles that can conftown itself. I'm not doing it now on the slight chance that scum is a day vig, but I will if needs be.

Micc seems genuine atm

Micc seems like caught scum ATM. We're in mylo, there are two days left in phase, and instead of scum hunting he's playing the

we'll lose if you lynch me

game.

Read his ISO. It's a lot of setup spec with a couple very weak pushes.

Simeon's and dave's aren't stellar, but they're significantly better.

[Persivul]

I don't TR any of you. Might as well put it on the table.

Which means POE is out for you. So... who do you scum read? How about putting that on the table...

MYLO... two days left in phase... today's a holiday in the US. This isn't looking good right now, folks.

[Bulbazoor]

Yeah I don't think I'll be on today. But I'll be on tomorrow if I can.

[Persivul]

VOTE: Micc

[Rob14]

Vote Count #3.2:

Micc:

Persivul (1)

Not Voting:

Micc, Bulbazoor, davesaz

With 4 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-24 07:30:00)

[Rob14]

Given the holiday, I'm extending deadline two days.

New deadline: (expired on 2018-11-26 07:30:00)

[Micc]

Sortaru and I had expressed scumreads and Simeon was already voting Tazaro so I'd say there was support for the wagon before davesaz replaced in. At least as much support as any other wagon had at that point in the game.

Expressing a scum read but not voting, only to vote once the wagon gains traction, is scummy AF.

That’s not even true. Mural agreement on a scum read that leads to a wagon and eventual scum flip is just good townblocking. Like, we’re taking about the heart of day 1 here. It’s the single most reasonable point in the game to be openly interacting and exchanging opinions. Once I realized my opinion was lining up with some people I loosely Town read I voted.

1. davesaz gave a partial reads list upon placing in. I give that a lot of credit.

2. So, same situation - if you think it's scummy, why aren't you pushing him? Making weak suggestions in hope that someone else picks up the case and pushes it is a scum move.

That reads list wasn’t rooted in anything. He could have pulled it from anywhere. Are you going to tell me you like bulbazoor too simply because he gave a partial read list?

I’ve said I’m leaning that direction the whole day and was pretty vocally not satisfied with his responses to me trying to wngage him. I’m not sure why you’d think I’m doing anything but pushing him. He’s scum with the game already wrapped up. I doubt we’ll see anything but a vote from him for the rest of the phase.

[Micc]

VOTE: davesaz

[Persivul]

That reads list wasn’t rooted in anything. He could have pulled it from anywhere. Are you going to tell me you like bulbazoor too simply because he gave a partial read list?

First, bulbazoor didn't give a reads list, partial or otherwise.

Second, a reads list, particularly early in the game, is risky for scum, because if they need to later vote someone who they previously town read, they have to come up with a good reason for the change. Reads lists used to be common practice, but site meta has changed on that, and IMO it's a change for the worse.

I’ve said I’m leaning that direction the whole day and was pretty vocally not satisfied with his responses to me trying to wngage him. I’m not sure why you’d think I’m doing anything but pushing him.

Oh, I dunno, maybe it was that whole lack of a vote on him with phase nearing end.

[davesaz]

Micc, saying that I'm not engaging you is a lie. You may not like the answers I'm giving, but we are having conversations. I'm the type of person who stops talking when I don't see anything new to add, maybe that bothers you? If you're "not satisfied" you could be a little more open about what you're not satisfied with.
This is not the point in the game where an OMGUS is acceptable. Pushing you on bad night actions is a sign of town, not scum.

But I don't want to put words in your mouth. Can you honestly say that you look at my posts and you don't think I'm solving? If you go beyond being wrong on a few things (and several/most of us have been wrong on something), point to something that's illogical or manipulative. Please do. And if you can't, please admit you can't.

Have you bothered to look at Simeon's ISO? I'm wondering if you see any original thought there. I looked before writing this post to see if my memory was right, and it's about 75% one liners. I can tell that you don't like my approach of testing whether people are genuine by asking them if they see what I see. Fine, I can show first, in another post.

Persivul seems much more town than Bob did.

[davesaz]

One-liner percentage might be off a bit. I'll do this in batches of posts which have "content".

Didnt read the past 10 posts but mic is being opportunistic on page 2

How do ya even skip 10 measly posts?

Because it was nearly 1am and I was in bed and falling asleep and had to be up at 5 am for work. Will read when I have time

Oh cool. You read page 2, determine there that he was being opportunistic, ignore the rest, and then post.

This looks bad tbh

Page 3 nitpicking, and I'm generally against the practice of ignoring RL issues.

Tazaro has been dull so far. It feels like he's just posting to look town.

Like his posts are mostly comments and don't really stick to anything.

This does express a read, but remember the setup has high multiball probability so at this point in the game scum!anyone would be hunting. Notice though, it's stated very vaguely.

UNVOTE: Maruchan

@Maruchan what do you think of Micc's post 69?

VOTE: Tazaro

X, what do you think of Y, vote Z is a pattern that seems more scum than town to me. Additionally, it's an unvote without a stated reason. I'd need to look at context to see if there is an unstated one.

BTW, lest you try to claim anything about why I'm active now -- I'm not prepping food / running all over town / doing door buster shopping today.

[davesaz]

Tazaro has been dull so far. It feels like he's just posting to look town.

Like his posts are mostly comments and don't really stick to anything.

I am a one liner kind of guy; and this is like a preemptive criticism^ of me before switching off from who U were briefly "sticking" to before (maruchan) and then sticking to me for who knows what length of stint.
Stint away, but make good cases justifying Urself before you end up switching off and on.

Terrible post.

You do understand that Maruchan posted before i switched my vote to you?

I'm not voting you because you're a one liner kind of guy, I'm voting you because your one liners don't really look like they were made to help you sort who's town or who's scum. It look like they were made just to say something.

This one's kinda towny but it isn't material that is hard to fake. Plus the target is rather low hanging fruit, it isn't like anyone had to work especially hard for that scumread.

If you help me lynch him now and he flips red, I don't have to wonder if you're bussing.

Do you think I'm scum?

I have not done a meta dive, but I have noticed a lot of scum in general like to ask who is scumreading them. The post itself isn't game advancing.

gamma purposefully talking in riddles is also rather annoying.

I think Gamma's posts have been clear so far tbh

Information, no analysis. (I had the exact same thought, but don't remember thinking it was worth a post. If I did post I would expect I said it's NAI. I don't feel like opening another tab to check lol)

@Kitten no thoughts on me?

Again, scum ask this way more than town IMO.

Finally

@shortaru there is now support for the Tazaro wagon lols. Will you join?

Kinda manipulative, yet leaving it vague, not pressing a case at all.

[davesaz]

because day 1 was a bucket full of null, and I needed a name, and the only person I felt had done anything of note was Micc pushing a policy on a role, so i investigated him

wtf. Shouldn't you have checked the ones not on the Tazaro wagon? since Tazaro flipped wolf?

Multi ball. Wagon analysis is useless this game buddy

Really? Multi ball doesn't mean you always wagon your partner, right?

multi ball means there might not BE any partners. We could have 3 1 man scum teams.

mafia/werewolf/replecant/alien/serial killer/cult.

How would knowing who lynched the werewolf matter if there is only one werewolf and there is also an alien and a mafia? by VCA reasoning the alien and the mafia could appear perfectly towny, and lynch the werewolf with the town, thinking he was town.

VCA is useless in great/er/est/grand idea

You're confusing the issue. You say you are a SEER. It's supposed to be your job then to look for another werewolf.

Other alignments don't matter right now let's ignore them for a bit.

It is true that town have no ideas on the scumteams, town could possibly be against a one man werewolf team and other non town-aligned roles, but your role as a seer is to look for another werewolf.

so I'm asking why did you investigate the guy who voted out the werewolf yesterday?

This is a good point, and it was a major contributing factor to my (incorrect) Maru scumread.
Picking on an obvious blunder isn't AI. Town and competing scum both have an interest in eliminating someone whose claim doesn't check out.

Spoiler: for micc

Yes I'm aware that that last sentence applies to me picking on your NA blunder.

[davesaz]

Kind of agree with Micc tbh. I badly want to vote somewhere else but Maru is the only one pinging me bad

VOTE: Maru

The timing of this vote

may

be important. Simeon made a very good case for Maru scum, then may have waited to see if someone else would vote there first. I don't see any evidence of Simeon scumreading anyone else, other than perhaps Micc. If he badly wanted to vote somewhere else, it almost has to be Micc he wanted to vote for. Why wouldn't town pursue that if they're getting cold feet on the presumptive lynch for the day? Scum might want to avoid annoying their MYLO/LYLO target prematurely.

[davesaz]

Maruchan: Micc, Bicephalous Bob, Simeon, davesaz (4)

On my previous site we had the "3rd on the wagon" tell. I don't actually agree with that being accurate, but the guy who tried to make a strong case waited to vote it until the vote created a L-1.

[davesaz]

Summary:

Micc posting is rather OMGUS'y but otherwise towny. The night action choice was mechanicallly unsound. I am susceptible to incorrectly townreading pushy scum, and very susceptible to OMGUSing. If his issue with me is a perception of lack of effort, he isn't taking RL into account, though to be honest I don't remember if I have reported all my RL interruptions in this game.

My primary reason for not townreading Bob was an apparent unwillingness to go into deeper analysis of whether using the role improves town's chances, makes the chances worse, or nets out to nothing. Of the remaining original players I remember Bob's posts the least. There is a WIFOM element here -- people say scum wouldn't fakeclaim Treestump because they might be forced into proving it -- but in a MB game with singleton factions, claiming a role where the prevailing site meta is scum wouldn't fake it is a good strategy. I owe the slot a re-read -- maybe I'm just not remembering enough about the posts. Oh, just remembered, Bob advocated scum should scumhunt given it's MB, and I remember thinking that seemed like an informed viewpoint. Gotta review that specifically.

Simeon slot I just went through a bunch of posts. We should most definitely not write the slot off as a town FV. If Micc investigated there because the slot looked scummy, maybe there's something to it. On looking through the ISO there is nothing there that is unambiguously town motivated, and a lot that could be mafia motivated.