micro 833: a coalition (D O N E)

[probs a robot]

Code: Select all

      _n____n__
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     |    |    |
    --------------
    | || || || ||\
    | || || || || \++++++++------<                        the scums
    ===============
    |   |  |  |   |
   (| O | O| O| O |)
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  (| O | O | O | O |)
   |   |   |   |    |
 (| O |  O | O  | O |)
  |   |    |    |    |
 (| O |  O |  O |  O |)
 ======================

Get ready to be exterminated! ^_^

[DVa]

probs have we played before once on your main?

[skitter30]

@skitter i'm gonna have to bug you again sorry
you mentioned you saw some townlike/what-tes-does-as-town-like stuff from tes early on. could you point me to it?

I am now exactly 47% more interested in this than I was before!

i don't have much motivation/energy for mafia today, so i'm going to hold off going through that wall bit-by-bit till probably sunday

but basically i remember him in that game being try-hard; efforting; lynch-bait-y and not realizing he came off as being lynch-baity; kinda tone-deaf to that sort of thing if that makes sense; i remember a couple of people saying they would want to push him if he weren't effectively conftown; i may have even said that, i don't remember

his early walls (like 48, 52) here kinda gave off that same try-hard-lynch-bait-y feel to me, if that makes sense
like it looks/feels kinda surface-level scummy by asking kinda pointless questions and being overly try-hard by commenting on like every other post, if that makes sense
but that's kinda how i remember him from that newbie

i didn't really have a problem with his entrance, and i don't think flaking is particularly ai either tbh

like the walls feel more like 'newb tryhard that wants to contribute' than 'asking pointless questions to fill up space' to me if that makes sense

i also feel like it's a fine read for page3 or whatever it was, not nearly as good for page35

[skitter30]

VOTE: probs a robot

You're probably actually human and if you're lying to us about that, then what else have you been lying about?

these also feel kinda wrong to me
i know it's not_mafia and everything but these posts kinda gut-ping me the wrong way

(i'm aware i just said i thought tess was low-key townie)

[skitter30]

i know lynchbait is lynchbait so i might just be chomping down too hard here but lynchbait can rand wolf as well and he's actually reading like he's just a wolf to me

why?
this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

While we are on the subject.
Why did you bite the lynch bait here, skitter?

also this is why i didn't like this post ^^^
sometimes lynchbait is actually scum
i'm aware that vizzy is lynchbait if town
he still felt kinda wrong to me compared to previous games
and i felt like you were shading me for trying to sort him

[probs a robot]

I think your take on Tes is more or less fine tbh. There isn't enough content there to be overly confident one way or another, and the tunnel is wearisome. I'll be curious to see whether anyone else finds the shoe fits or whether it's just an exercise in applied bias.

Also wrt biting down on Vizzy--that's a pretty fair reason not to like my post. In the absence of other reasons to townread you at that juncture I'm generally gonna be more likely to use challenging/confronting language to throw people off guard than any other kind of language. But I get it

[probs a robot]

probs have we played before once on your main?

Nope But I do hope we play again!

[probs a robot]

This is a good time to sort each other though. Do you think any of my reads takes or shifts on your slot have been unfair or unjustified? If you think I'm taking liberties in a scum indicative way I'll leave that with you to talk through. But if you think I'm being unfair or not looking at the right things can you help me realise where you would expect to be read more strongly?

Mostly I feel like you've put a lot more effort at this point into saying how much you can't sort me than trying to sort me. Like there have been points where I felt like we were basically on the same page and then three posts later you're like "well idk guess it's null after all." idk feeling that way with half this player list though, like what's the point of even talking if people are just going to flip their read every other post. idk I thought this game would be a fun townhunting cluster and instead it's boring with half the list barely posting and the other half refusing to work with anyone on a coalition, just seems pointless and unfun at this point, I probably should just out. seems like the only potential time that fun would happen here would be if the coalition failed, which seems like it's likely to happen given people wanting to be replacing one inactive null slot for another rather than engaging the slots that are here

really don't even know why I'm still here, guess I'm hoping the game ends with coalition but like I'm not enjoying the process at this point, guess I can just chill and hope you guys solve without me and pretend I'm v/la until we actually can lynch someone or the game is over

I can second this. It is vexing me as well.

I didn't realise you felt this way.. Could you quote some posts around the time when you felt like we went from hiveminding to me nullreading you? Not questioning your credibility, I just want to see how well I can slip into your brain. I actually didn't get a strong feeling that our stances on the thread were meshing but this is also not an uncommon negative trait of my playstyle so I'm really curious to see this.

Also apologies for being a pest but what are your thoughts around this concept?

[skitter30]

Also wrt biting down on Vizzy--that's a pretty fair reason not to like my post. In the absence of other reasons to townread you at that juncture I'm generally gonna be more likely to use challenging/confronting language to throw people off guard than any other kind of language. But I get it

now that i think about it the fact that you town-cased vizzy is +town for you tbh
in a previous game where you repped into a scumslot you wouldn't towncase your pred despite calling them townie and despite being asked; here you had concrete reasons for it

meh

HEAL: robot
my coalition is: me, nsg, tdw, raya-slot, you
which is basically - vaguely townie vaguely active players
not entirely sure i can get anything better rn tbh

[probs a robot]

In case you has any doubt your guess on my identity is correct

[probs a robot]

That's probably where I end up as well. I think I need a vc because my circuits are a little fried this week.
The only real question is whether we want someone townish but easier to sort?

[DVa]

OK well you asked so I will try to flesh out why you have struck me as... well frustrating to work with robot.

This is probably the first point where I liked something you posted.

This is an odd post where you say you liked that I healed TDW but this seems oblique because you were scumreading TDW at the time, which is not the impression this post gave.

northsidegal is very strongly town.

I liked this early read and the commitment to it and thought our reads were aligning possibly here.

Why is TDW so high for you?

Your thought that you "liked" my post healing TDW while also doubting him seemed slightly townie.

My previous conclusion is strengthened by 17% due to you voting her immediately after I called out possible scum/scum interactions.
Having said that, I think you are town before skitter is. If I am wrong on one of you.

I thought your idea that me+skitter was s/s was far-fetched but since I felt skitter had come off as slightly scummy at the time I felt like your overall prioritization wasn't awful.

Ouch! Perhaps robots and humans are not meant to be friends.

This just felt manipulative.

@northsidegal, do you see what I see with town!DVa? I am seriously reconsidering my current read on her.

Here it seemed like based on new content you were seriously reevaluating your read but then nothing ever comes of it. At this point I look back at 235 and am like... why? for what? and why did you revert back? was this just spectacle to give the impression of reevaluation?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Skitter
Be more normal ok thx <3

Skitter's initial posting had roused something in my scumdar module as well. I liked this for an opening vote (more than I liked most of the opening votes here).

HEAL: Musicjax
HEAL: Yuriko

Yuriko is rarely a member of the mafia's first choice for their coalition here.
I would have been thoroughly impressed of scum!musicjax identified Yuriko as a choice here.
Unless it was entirely random. But musicjax is probably a human, and humans are incapable of randomness. Therefore I stand by this.

Yuriko's posts don't feel faked.

...indeed, it was not random!
He successfully picked the most pure slot in rvs. He could have easily gone for a more cliché slot or random healed to look busy.

Yo

any thoughts on the setup, musicjax??

I should be in the coalition.

For someone with as little tone as musicjax, I very much like this for tonally towny.

HEAL: The Dark Wanderer

What's the reason for anything.

I believe that this read contains more nuance than musucjax let's on. It irritates me that he has replaced out (and part of my impasse comment reflects here).
TDW's post is the type of content which demands to be townread.
However, I do not actually believe it is alignment indicative.
He strikes me as the type of player from another kind of site who has posted "enough", without contributing a hefty effort to solve the game. This isn't alignment indicative either, it is just the way the game is played elsewhere. In a longer term it may be possible to allocate to part of a scumcase. In isolation it is a playstyle/acitivity tell and nothing more.

I think Musicjax bit the bait here; he healed a post which smelled towny, but when called out on it, was unable to open his heart as to why it felt towny. In context I believe this is town indicative.

Oh freak someone might use this chain of humorous posting to scumread me later.

+ tone points
Also reflects back to the point DVa made earlier. I thoroughly agree that this kind of self-aware, depreciating comedy is town indicative for this player.

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

VOTE: Gamma
Yo guys join me on this pretend wagon.

This is advancing the game, and is done in a way with no regard for appearances.
Very invisibility-flavoured way to do it, to boot.

At the time this had really started to seal my thought that you could be a solid townread but pretty much every effort I made to start working with you after this felt very frustrating although idk, I was second guessing a lot of my playstyle techniques at this point

Again... her instinctive read on Gamma and lack of APPARENT re-evaluation should give me a read. It is not giving me a read, though.

This is where you start coming back to unwilling to commit to a read on me

Based off this follow-through, however, I am not confident that she experienced the same flood of lucidity that I had thought she had.

This is ignoring that skitter was casing you at the time, your own posts, and my desire to sort both you and skitter to a point where I could reach a consensus townblock, which felt disingenuous. The point wasn't just to have a desired coalition but to get the town to start agreeing on fucking anything, and me willing to actually talk through skitter's accusations made you flip your read of me? Weak shit

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Raya

I do not like hurting humans... I will make an effort to fill this coalition only with people who I do not wish to harm....

This is manipulative

Still a towny thought. I also believe that the fact TDW's approach to the game is not as scum indicative as I had first registered.

OK so you're finally starting to come around to TDW which is where I had been for ages

northsidegal
The Dark Wanderer
Raya36
probs a robot
TesXX
YurikoJasmine
Gamma Emerald

DVa

skitter30

I am wondering whether this reality can be operated within.
It is my opinion that I have allocated too much battery to time in reading DVa; while I am beginning to think she may be town, I do not think that if I include her in the coalition I am capable of later having a more decisive read on her. Therefore she presents as a poor choice.

Skitter, I need to re-evaluate but I do not think I can heal her in good conscience. She is simply not towny.

TDW I am coming around on, though I feel his reads need re-evaluation and reality checking. I am pleased to offer adequate objectivity in this regard! ^_^

northsidegal is towny. Raya is towny. I am convincing myself that Yuriko is towny.
TesXX and Gamma need to contribute more. Both do sit above null for me. But the read will shake.

Is {nsg, TDW, Raya} along with two of {Yuriko, Tes, Gamma} an adequate solve? If so my sources support a coalition of 5 of those 6 omitting Gamma. I would appreciate Tes' real time interactions. He is currently the second I would remove. Yuriko is the least likely I would remove in this category, but that will depend on Gamma and Tes' contributions.

So now you're willing to reevaluate TDW but you're putting me below slots that have said jack shit and still are entertaining me+skitter s/s which frankly seems hard for me to buy

I get similar feelings from this that I got from the Gamma/TDW interactions at game-start. This is a wholesome feeling. I have no alignment read of it.

A part of me wishes that it felt like an affront to gamesolving efforts. Or that it felt like a towny reaction. But neither of these is true. It is just a pleasant reaction.

And now you've started being unwilling to commit to a read on Gamma, which has consistently been the slot that I have wanted to coalition around.

So yeah, there have been times you've seemed to come around to my reads, there's been times you've seemed to reevaluate your read of me, there's been times you've seemed to reevaluate your association of me with skitter, but although you signal you're doing all these thoughts and reevaluations actually your reads just seem to basically stay the same, there's just lots of little manipulative one-off posts scattered throughout. Like I wanted to be able to townblock you have 275 and start advocating for a strong coalition core but your reads of me, TDW, Gamma, or lackthereof in some cases, just started to get really frustrating and at some point it became almost impossible to care what your read of me was. You voted me at one point instead of healing me *and I thought you meant to vote me* I had so lost track of where you were.

Basically yeah, the people I have wanted to townblock have been very slow to get into the game, half the other options are basically not here, and the other players that I townread basically want nothing to do with me. Just a frustrating, slightly boring game state.

[probs a robot]

DVa will you be here for a bit?

[probs a robot]

The healing/hurting comments are transparently part of my gimmick, and I wouldn't recommend reading into them. They are intended for comedy and comedy only. if you want to make the case that I'm trying to be funny so I'm not lynched please go ahead but I don't think that's your angle here at all.

I'll try to reply to some stuff. Basically my read on you has gone
Town?
Nnnaybe not
Maybe a wolf?
Nah...
Town?
Town
Wait
Null
Town?
Wolf???
Null?!?!
Town

which is why you've probably felt a lack of conviction from me. I have bot convinced myself on a solid read on you yet. >_<;;

[probs a robot]

I don't disagree that this gamestate is boring. Net of all things, I am actually leaning town on you for what that's worth. I do think yours is the type of playstyle which I tend to misread (for the record, I have misread gamma a lot more often than I have read him correctly which is why I'm not strongly inclined to set his sort order at particularly high).

Also would probably say Gamma has produced less AI content than each slot above him in my read list which contributes. I like his catchup style on principle but it isn't very AI in practice; a lot of the questions didn't feel as though they had strong momentum anr he's also stopped posting.. but I also think he is slightly >rand town.

I am kind of at the point now where my townreads are roughly sorted into levels of confidence. Every time I try to become more confident on your slot I confuse my original read and earmark it to come back and try later, which is why you keep floating back to the middle of my read list. But honestly given this I don't know if I trust myself to say "DAY ONE: DVA IS DEFINITELY TOWN". Fyi I do find the fact you're reaching out to me about this quite town indicative as well.

All things considered I would be comfortable with a few coalitions being hammered right now. It's just I'm a bit nervous about having slots who i don't entirely trust myself to read within them.

Being in/out if the coalition isn't necessarily a negative tho; even if the game continues you'll probably never be considered for a lynch until endgame (just NKs are often off coalition I guess : /)

[probs a robot]

I guess in a way I kinda get the manipulative thing. It's probably more my natural feeling to hurt/heal more often and discuss my reads in a different way but like 5his is kinda intentionally different from the way I'd be playing on my main I guess? The hurting/healing humans thing is a reference to Asimov and moral ambiguity around robots' programmed inability to harm humans (must avoid it but perhaps it's okay if it's for the greater good kinda thing).

Hopefully this provides a bit more context around how I've approached this because I think we're very different people but obviously that can't preclude us from trying to sort each other, just means misunderstandings are more likely to happen if that makes sense


Again if you feel I'm making this situation highly uncomfortable for you, please speak up as I really don't want a situation like this.

[DVa]

Yeah I kinda get that Gamma could have more presence but his analysis compared to slots like Tes and frankly even Raya feels like night and day. Like he's less assertive about it but the way he's kinda just letting his reads play out is precisely why he is really obviously town here. His thought progression is very natural here.

The thing is I feel like despite having at times sorted you some of your key reads are hard to work toward a coalition on. And my frustration here is not exclusively at you, I'm actually pretty frustrated with NSG rn too. But there's no way you're both scum, one of the two of you is just a playstyle conflict, and with the lurkers and replace outs and frozen deadline I'm just like... meh

[The Dark Wanderer]

Meh

I really think it's just yurikojasmine/robot off chance of TesXX

I'm deciding between gamma and DVa for final town slot and if the board sentiment was different I'd consider replacing Raya with the other.

[The Dark Wanderer]

Still strongly object to Robot placing in the town block

[The Dark Wanderer]

So many empty or pseudo empty slots that I'm not really progressing much

[probs a robot]

HURT: northsidegal
HURT: The Dark Wanderer
HURT: Raya36
HURT: probs a robot
HURT: Not_Mafia
HURT: YurikoJasmine
HURT: Gamma Emerald
HURT: DVa
HURT: skitter30

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: The Dark Wanderer
HEAL: Raya36
HEAL: skitter30
HEAL: DVa

This is a great coalition!

[probs a robot]

@TDW I think DVa's reach out to me and heavy townread on Gamma were made in very good faith. Actually I think a lot of her play points to good faith, in spite of my flittiness with reading her strongly.

[probs a robot]

skitter might actually be right about being outside of her scumrange

she's undertaken some actions here which do not contribute to her being townread whatsoever--scum!skitter's agenda here is to get onto the coalition, no questions asked. i have somewhat too much meta insight into her because of a couple of past game things which i'm not at liberty to talk about here due to alt reasons.

the fact she made some undertakings earlier in the game (her jumping into NSG Night conversation is a good example as she highlighted) is actually pretty town indicative. the only reason scum!skitter needs to get involved in that conversation as one of the less towny participants is probably to use it as a roundabout meta breaker. but i'm not sure nsg has played with scum!her recently and she did not have my identity right at the time so i can't really think of why it would have occurred to her to take this particular rout to use as an anti-scum-meta tell

this is confusing
i think maybe this is something scum!skitter tries to do when playing with people with a lot of experience with her who she needs to change the reads of, but probably not something that naturally occurs to skitter to do as a wolf in an isolated situation

sorry for the hyperposting btw every time i am reminded this game is a thing a new flood of thoughts enters my RAM

[probs a robot]

might be coming around to Raya actually being the weakest link in that proposed coalition
i feel like that's just because of her absence tho

[schadd_]

;