Excalibur [Endgame]

[Auro]

Dude Merlin doesn't claim the sword, that's mechanical redundancy and strictly anti-town

We want two ICs not one, wtf, you're better than this people

Modification to the previous being that if we're opting Merlin to gladiate, he just claims and we take him as IC for that day, revising our gladiate options before a challenge is made? He'd get NK'd that night anyway, so we're losing an IC after that.

Optimum would be gaining two ICs while not letting them get NK'd in the process.

[Auro]

Yes but at some point, if the real Arthur is still in the game, Merlin would probably need to fake vig at that point to allow Arthur to have it. But the one problem with the confitown by sword claiming theory, is that it can only work until that player attempts to vig, because once any player has it and doesn’t use it, it cannot be claimed by another player, so no one should claim but the consensus scumread.

So Merlin's trading his life for the *chance* that Arthur takes hold of it and gets vigging abilities?
The problem you're stating is what I'm stating as well - the person not following through. It's effectively 11/12 suicide the next night.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No, obviously anyone who claims the sword, will be confirmed town. The point is that unless Merlin loses the gadiate, it’s pointless otherwise for him to try to claim the sword.

If Merlin loses the gladiate, he dies.
The 'unless' being the 'worst case' I was referring to, where he's forced to gladiate and

wins

the gladiate.

Can you point out the part where I've contradicted myself, seeing otherwise as we're in agreement about this?

Also, your basis for a townread on Gamma is that he pointed out something that's not really that hard to deduce? How strong is this townread?

I know that INDEPENDENT of the previous discussed strategy, if Merlin simply claims the sword it's discarding the Merlin mechanic, but I still won't be quick to dismiss that idea so fast, much less townread someone for that. Also, previous challenge is still up where you come up with a strat that makes use of both the Merlin and Arthur mechanics.

He pointed out the redundancy of Merlin claiming the sword. The game just started, I don’t have any strong reads yet. I do have a really good idea that makes use of both but stating it, would just help scum. We need to both keep Merlin hidden and not give scum any clues about how Merlin should confirm Arthur. We also don’t want scum to figure out who Arthur is. If Arthur is the one who has claimed the sword, that is when Merlin can publically confirm it. At that point, Merlin just becomes a regular townie and we get our vig.

[Auro]

1. *Consensus scumread gladiates next highest scumread*
2. Winner HAS to be the only person to claim
3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur
4. ???

Also, what are the advantages to town IF Arthur does get a hold of Excalibur? How much does it swing town's winning chances?

Pedit: Nancy, why would stating that idea help scum? Would you state it at a later point in the day? O.o

[SirCakez]

this is gonna be one of those games i see

[Auro]

We need to both keep Merlin hidden and not give scum any clues about how Merlin should confirm Arthur. We also don’t want scum to figure out who Arthur is. If Arthur is the one who has claimed the sword, that is when Merlin can publically confirm it.

The way I see it, the only way for Merlin to make use of his role is to confirm IFF Arthur has the sword, I don't see a change in this part at least.

this is gonna be one of those games i see

What games, and what would you prefer?

[SirCakez]

by one of those games I mean a heavy posting one
I haven't read anything yet, i'm just judging from the seven pages

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yes but at some point, if the real Arthur is still in the game, Merlin would probably need to fake vig at that point to allow Arthur to have it. But the one problem with the confitown by sword claiming theory, is that it can only work until that player attempts to vig, because once any player has it and doesn’t use it, it cannot be claimed by another player, so no one should claim but the consensus scumread.

So Merlin's trading his life for the *chance* that Arthur takes hold of it and gets vigging abilities?
The problem you're stating is what I'm stating as well - the person not following through. It's effectively 11/12 suicide the next night.

All matters are settled with duels, not lynches. Each of you may publicly challenge another to a duel, which gladiates the two of you.

@Mod, how do we even make the gladiates happen?

[Auro]

A person simply challenges another player, that's already given.
We'll need our own consensus mechanic to unofficially *make* a gladiate to happen, if we want town to be in control of it.
That's what we were discussing a few pages ago.
One proposal is that we use HURT tags, and when majority is reached, the player gladiates another scumread. (Maybe the second-highest HURT).

[Auro]

I take it that no gladiates would effectively mean a no-lynch.

[Nancy Drew 39]

1. *Consensus scumread gladiates next highest scumread*
2. Winner HAS to be the only person to claim
3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur
4. ???

Also, what are the advantages to town IF Arthur does get a hold of Excalibur? How much does it swing town's winning chances?

Pedit: Nancy, why would stating that idea help scum? Would you state it at a later point in the day? O.o

If Merlin knows that Arthur holds Excalibur, then he needs to confirm Arthur -

after

he has the sword obviously - and he can start safely vigging consensus scum.

[Dunnstral]

Hello...

DUNNSTRAL

Hello...

Kokichi

We should do unlimited hurt tags and have whoever gets a majority of hurt tags to duel the second most hurt player.

ie HURT: Elsa

I'm up for this

HURT: Untrod Tripod
HURT: Auro

trying to resist the urge to duel Elsa rn

lol you're cute

I'll vig you last

holy quarterbacking, batman

hey LLD

are we finally on the same side? will you join me in a Day 1 slam dunk scum lynch on Elsa?

Honestly, we get more value from having a strong town leader claim the sword rather than using it as a jank cop on bad town that no one wants to keep around anyway.

But the issue I realized just now is if I say "I'm taking it" I can just be shot to prevent it.

So we need two powerful town leaders both agreeing "we're taking it" so scum can only shoot one of us.

You and I or Myself and UT or even You and UT I'd be ok with, though I obviously prefer myself.

I volunteer as tribute

if anything I followed LLD?

Reading these posts as scum

Wonder what happens if Merlin gets the sword. Do they just... Become the god ruler of the town?

Serious question though, should Merlin just claim the sword and be done with it?

A sidenote to this: I'm personally viewing the day 1 duel as basically a popularity contest. So choose wisely if you duel someone.

They die when they try to use it. What part of Arthur can only use do u not get

The point of the matter is Merlin is confirmed town and safe from ever getting shot. I can deal without having a vigilante at all.

This is a bad idea

Throwing out a thought:
If scum claims Excalibur, they die immediately.
Town can vote on someone to claim Excalibur for the day. ONLY that person claims at night. If they're scum it remains unclaimed, lynch next day. If there's a claim treat them like an IC the next day.

Re: LL and Jay, I think it's better overall to discuss mechanics and find out a good strategy at this stage, instead of starting with the accusations already. *Shrug*

@Auro: They kill town and keep the sword out of play, though, again, I don't think scum really have anything to fear if a townie WOULD get the sword is the problem, because then so long as that townie is not Arthur, it's just a BP IC and scum knows they're BP so they won't waste time there.

Exactly so scum don't have incentive to NK the claimant -- even if they do, you're saying this then reduced to a mountainous?

A town leader claiming it would be all the better reason to NK that person.

This guy feels scummy to me as well

Nancy and UT are town

I don't agree with these early reads

[Elsa Jay]

You Bold and scream I'M DUELING THIS PLAYER, Nancy.

[Auro]

1. *Consensus scumread gladiates next highest scumread*
2. Winner HAS to be the only person to claim
3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur
4. ???

Also, what are the advantages to town IF Arthur does get a hold of Excalibur? How much does it swing town's winning chances?

Pedit: Nancy, why would stating that idea help scum? Would you state it at a later point in the day? O.o

If Merlin knows that Arthur holds Excalibur, then he needs to confirm Arthur -

after

he has the sword obviously - and he can start safely vigging consensus scum.

Yeah, that's step 3. If he confirms, Arthur starts safely vigging.
If not, I'm wondering what's best.

[Auro]

This guy feels scummy to me as well

Either you're tone-reading or there's some scummy content in what I've posted that you disagree with.
Which is it? If it's the latter, go ahead and engage me.

[Dunnstral]

All challenges must be in BOLD, or they shall not count.

@nancy

[Nancy Drew 39]

A person simply challenges another player, that's already given.
We'll need our own consensus mechanic to unofficially *make* a gladiate to happen, if we want town to be in control of it.
That's what we were discussing a few pages ago.
One proposal is that we use HURT tags, and when majority is reached, the player gladiates another scumread. (Maybe the second-highest HURT).

Yes but how do we force any player to duel? Why can’t scum just refuse? What’s stopping them from doing this? If there is no mechanic to force duels, then I don’t know how we ever get lynches.

[Dunnstral]

This guy feels scummy to me as well

Either you're tone-reading or there's some scummy content in what I've posted that you disagree with.
Which is it? If it's the latter, go ahead and engage me.

Both and I'm not just looking at those posts

I'm scumreading the way you come in and are talking heavily about mechanics, because your tone also feels off

[Dunnstral]

A person simply challenges another player, that's already given.
We'll need our own consensus mechanic to unofficially *make* a gladiate to happen, if we want town to be in control of it.
That's what we were discussing a few pages ago.
One proposal is that we use HURT tags, and when majority is reached, the player gladiates another scumread. (Maybe the second-highest HURT).

Yes but how do we force any player to duel? Why can’t scum just refuse? What’s stopping them from doing this? If there is no mechanic to force duels, then I don’t know how we ever get lynches.

Somebody else can challenge a player though

[Elsa Jay]

A person simply challenges another player, that's already given.
We'll need our own consensus mechanic to unofficially *make* a gladiate to happen, if we want town to be in control of it.
That's what we were discussing a few pages ago.
One proposal is that we use HURT tags, and when majority is reached, the player gladiates another scumread. (Maybe the second-highest HURT).

Yes but how do we force any player to duel? Why can’t scum just refuse? What’s stopping them from doing this? If there is no mechanic to force duels, then I don’t know how we ever get lynches.

Just imagine the most townread player challenges a scummy player. We get to hang the scummy guy.

All it takes is for someone to challenge. We don't need both to agree, only 1.

[Auro]

Yes but how do we force any player to duel? Why can’t scum just refuse? What’s stopping them from doing this? If there is no mechanic to force duels, then I don’t know how we ever get lynches.

In my imagination, someone REFUSING to gladiate is anti-town, and someone gladiates them for that.

@Dunnstral, yeah if it's "both" you can go ahead and engage with me on the content itself.
If you're scumreading me because I'm talking heavily about mechanics, sure. Can't help that.
Tone I'd say is playstyle, I feel like *every* game there's someone scumreading me off tone alone -- So I'd call that weak, but whatever suits you.

[Dunnstral]

3. (If Merlin's alive) Merlin confirms if Arthur the next day, says nothing if not, thus confirming to town that yesterday's winner isn't Arthur

And stuff like this that you're pushing seems anti-town

Pretty sure this step 3 should never happen

[Elsa Jay]

this is gonna be one of those games i see

Every game starts with a big post count if it's a large. That's why we got 17 players.

[Auro]

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.

[Dunnstral]

What can happen instead: If the person with the sword is suspected enough that they are likely to be gladiated, they should probably speak up about having the sword before they are gladiated

Merlin/arthus shouldn't be outting at any point during this