Excalibur [Endgame]

[Dunnstral]

Like LLD said all this talk on the mechs of the game will get us no where.

haha

[Dunnstral]

Going to reaffirm
HURT: Untrod Tripod

HEAL: Auro
Because he sounds better, consider this me unvoting him rather than expressing a townread

In exchange:

HURT: Elsa Jay

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh okay then. So anyone - other than Merlin - should do this, if they’re convinced they’ve found scum. Got it.

Not unless they want to be lynched

Yolodueling is precisely what made town lose in BoR

I think a better read for determining the effect of yolodueling is Transformers Mafia, as that had a real duel mechanic rather than something akin to it

Can you link it? Thanks.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Hello

14 pages to read and I'm kinda busy today but I'll try to catch up in first possible time - in my breaks.

I just saw my name in this page and if by not playing logically you mean gladiating someone randomly or going against a decided plan for trying to pick up the sword - I would and will never do those things ever. If you mean I have my special play style yeah I do

Oh hi, I didn’t even realize you were on this playerlist.

[MariaR]

Also Vigs in a setup this large are kind of anti-town until later in the game in emergency ANYWAY, so............

We shouldn't be worried about Arthur or Merlin too much. Just focus on getting a confirmed town and lynching scummy people.

Glad we're on the same page ms Lambdadelta

if anything I followed LLD?

I don't believe UT and Lady are partners for obv reason although I don't see the reason they're mostly scumread for the posting they've made so far at all anyway.

this is gonna be one of those games i see

I've skipped every post until this one because of how much Auro is mech talking with Nancy and getting nothing done.
The only thing I have to note is while I don't really agree fully with Gamma's scumread of Auro I think he believes it so he can be part of the town.

like 5 players haven't even posted yet and 3 others have single digit post counts
it's just really unnecessarily messy, if you will

Agreed. I wish Auro would stop talking mechs and post more scumreads because it's just clogging the thread at this point and is honestly not that helpful what so ever. He could be a homunculus but I have nothing to base it on besides annoyance. SirCakez is town

useless fights are gonna be more useful in the scumhunting game though

I'm blown away that you think useless fights won't kill player interest but 7 pages of opening discussion will

Gladiations immediately limit town scumhunting potential and lock the dayphase into two people. That will nuke *my* interest in the game if people start doing it, which is precisely why I want town to be aware that yolo-dueling will result in the yoloing player getting lynched every time. There is nothing more boring to me than seeing two townreads gladiate each other because one had a momentary fleeting thought that the other was scum.

Town doing shitty gladiates on other town is pretty much the foundation of the scum wincon here because the gladiation mechanic will mean that until the lynch goes through they don't have to commit to any other read on any other player and can coast--and town will want to coast too. Basically gladiations force the town to come to standstill until someone dies.

Should we vote and do hurt tags and have the 2 most scummy players fight each other? Yes that will keep the game not going into an ego contest and trying to play hero just like the desp game. Do I think you fellow soldiers have the self restraint? No.

like d.va I said earlier that someone who rando-gladiates early should be PLed
that's def not what I want

Disagree that it should be a direct

Policy Lynch

, this almost feels like pre-emptive opportunism.

Random gladidates depend on the context of it but I would be down to policy myself depending on the action. Take this post as you will

[MariaR]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

I'm just gonna hope someone already explained to Varsoon why this is incorrect and if not I'll do it after I finish catching up. Although I expect him to know better. First Fos goes to him.

Agree with Varsoon's post, also TR on Varsoon.

Why. Slight Fos on this. Tip: It's not because of varsoon

And claiming who Arthur is on day 2 when he doesn't have the sword is also not good play

Seriously?
People jumped at varsoon like he was a good walking among men

Glad to see someone has some common sense. Thank you for that mr Dunnstral.

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.

Do you not get that?

You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.

Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day

Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties

Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase

So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan

Everyone trying to talk about what the best play is and what isn't is taking away the core focus of this game. Finding the homunculus (scum)
Honestly the whole string of UT/Auro/Varsoon posts are bad to me.

[Auro]

Agreed. I wish Auro would stop talking mechs and post more scumreads because it's just clogging the thread at this point and is honestly not that helpful what so ever.

Disagree heavily, I think for this setup the treatment towards available mechanics is useful to generate content.
And also, in the process, helped me form some early reads myself.
And also, the current context of DVa/Varsoon exchanges -- which I find are TvT, are also useful to me to work with and judge reactions to.

If you don't want to read a few pages of discussion, don't.

[MariaR]

Talking mechs is the most NAI/scummy content you can ever bring yourself to talk about because you're talking about something that is rather simple instead of scumhunting like you should be doing overall the mech talk. If you look at this game in the most basic sense it's red flag with 2 ICs with everyone having a gladiator power. If we work together on using hurt tags to put up the 2 people everyone finds the most scummy that is gonna be more useful then fighting over what the 'best plan' for the sword is. What you're doing isn't helpful it's more anti town then not

[MariaR]

I have townreads on Gamma/Cakez at the moment
I would vote UT//Varsoon at the moment

[Auro]

*I* don't think it's as simple here simply because of the divide in philosophies which drive how one would approach the sword mechanics.
I agree that talking about mechs in the normal case is not helpful, but in *this* case is. In any case, there should be some starting point to scumhunt, and the Varsoon/DVa divide + reactions actually help.
I am forming reads alongside, as I said, and have stated them earlier.

Also see, you formed reads from that discussion too.

[Auro]

Also @Cakez: I take back what I said about the PLs, I'm also down to policy vote someone who gladiates out of protocol.

[MariaR]

A lot of my reads didn't come from the people talking about mechs, in fact, I skipped it. It was due to reactions although no use to argue over that. You have your stance and you're clearly not gonna change it.

[Auro]

I did note reactions in my post.
Looking forward to your explanation on the Varsoon scumread.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm through pg 6 and auro has the most posts in the game by far but zero scumhunting, I don't count random questions. c'mon bro where's it at
certain other players (COUGH nancy COUGH) are guilty here too but not as badly
i don't think this is necessarily scummy but it's also not really helpful and honestly I think this massive setup discussion is gonna severely murder the motivation of the other 2/3 of the game playerlist because it's a ton of reading that is really hard to read unless you can really follow (and I couldn't, maybe I'm just an idiot tho)

that was up there for the most useless 7 pages I've ever read, at least to me. setup fiends will love it. i'm sure FG is loving it lol
i don't think i've ever read the words arthur, merlin or gladiate more before

What do you count as scumhunting then? I did make a cursory townread on Nancy, is that too 'random' for you too? I prefer to 'scumhunt' through engagement and questions, not outright-accusations.

I'll shut up with my attempts to figure a good strategy if town would rather just ignore it or not read it. If what you're saying is true, sure.
You see absolutely 0 utility in mechanics discussion? What if I tell you that through the process, we could come up with a consensus strategy reliant on town cohesion, and follow through to maximize town chances?

This reaction is in line with how I react to being accused of “not scumhunting” when I’m town.

[Ariane]

whoa

[Ariane]

Admitting I did not read carefully through the whole mechanics thing.

But Auro (47) and Nancy ([post 70]) are you really advocating that any of us who get the sword should try to vig? The worst case scenario is 3 town dead by D2 (one lunched, one NKd, and one dead not-Arthur)—and tbh it's not actually that unlikely. Unless we're super super confident in not only getting one scum, but two, at the least there'll be two town dead. this is weird

[Auro]

Admitting I did not read carefully through the whole mechanics thing.

But Auro (47) and Nancy (70) are you really advocating that any of us who get the sword should try to vig? The worst case scenario is 3 town dead by D2 (one lunched, one NKd, and one dead not-Arthur)—and tbh it's not actually that unlikely. Unless we're super super confident in not only getting one scum, but two, at the least there'll be two town dead. this is weird

Spoiler: Mechanics Talk

If the goal of whatever strategy is to get the sword to Arthur eventually, then sword-holders have to attempt a vig to make it claimable again.
My current position has changed, and more reflects yours -- I agree with Varsoon's strategy in 216 with some modifications. I don't think any strategy where Arthur should end up with the sword is pragmatic, or useful for the probable costs.
There are a couple of slots who think Varsoon is incorrect, and one of them has said she would point it out; still waiting for that response.

[Auro]

@Mod: Formatting seems to have gone whack in my post above, please fix.

[Ariane]

confused—was that link meant to go somewhere else? It's just to post 70 as far as I can see

ok good.

So I don't like Nancy. She's very agreeable. by which I mean she spends more time agreeing than posting her own thoughts, that's how it seems to me. It's all "Yeah, I was thinking that too" (70) "Yeah, that's a great idea" (94) "Yeah, Merlin hunting serves no purpose" (98) "Because he's obviously right" (130)

NB I have just seen going thru Nancy's ISO that she in fact addresses my question above (194)—I know I've quoted a lot of posts here, sorry—not sure how to feel about this one cos she seemed to be for it earlier then switched without discussion, but then again I could've missed sth

Anyway you get the idea. It's a feeling I had when reading, and although she disagrees with Auro at times, the early pages she's like agreeing with everyone (else) and when her own stuff's there it's adjacent, if that makes sense

I cannot figure out how to do a hurt

[Ariane]

also weirdly insistent about how *exactly* to challenge which seems strange I dunno

[Auro]

@Ariane:

Code: Select all

[hurt]Someone[/hurt]

What do you think of the DVa|Varsoon exchange?

[Ariane]

also handing out town reads like candy except for the following:

Lol on that note Dunn if fire, lld or ut is Merlin then literally the entire last 15 pages were for nothing

Yeah, probably liking their posts the least rn.

do you mean cakes' or one of the ones he mentioned?

PEdit:

HURT: Nancy

Probably both town. DV strikes me as legit trying to solve the game, tho I don't like what I read of the strat. V's idea is like 'I'm throwing my hands up in the air enough with mechanics' and I reckon there's town emotions in there, reads honest to me

[Gamma Emerald]

Fantastic Jodie Whitaker avatar Ariane
Anyway, back to grind after a break

[Ariane]

danke

Is this the grind or the break?

[Auro]

Probably both town. DV strikes me as legit trying to solve the game, tho I don't like what I read of the strat. V's idea is like 'I'm throwing my hands up in the air enough with mechanics' and I reckon there's town emotions in there, reads honest to me

And which idea do you agree with? Anything glaringly wrong with 216?

HURT: Dunnstral

May change this if/when MariaR or anyone makes the case against 216, and I'm convinced that Varsoon may be misleading us.