Mini Normal 2044: Game over!

[Persivul]

Are we all just voting PoE?

Seems like no matter who's voted, people come in to say why they're townie, but then don't make serious pushes themselves.

Are you still scum reading bji? As no one buys Clem, I could go to bji since my two towniest reads are on him. We need some wagons or VCA later won't be worth much.

[Irrelephant11]

Scum like to find roles.

this is true in a vacuum but do scum usually say "hey let's wagon this player and get a claim" so brazenly?
More importantly, isn't it about time in the game day to head toward L-1?

pedit: oh I thought your "towniest reads" weren't that strong

[bji]

Sorry, I haven't played in quite some time, I thought it was the expected outcome of an L-1 position.

I thought everyone was so hot for "information". Why doesn't a claim qualify?

The main info town is looking for is the person's reaction, who gets on the wagon, and whether a counter wagon forms.

Scum like to find roles.

So you actually believe the claim will be factual just because the person is at L-1?

If Raya/Creature is scum (which I think is more likely true than anything else I've seen this game) then the claim doesn't matter as it's a lie anyway - and if it's a lie that gets the slot off the hook today, it will almost certainly bury it later on. If Creature is town, then I'm assuming that he will be smart enough to make the claim that is best for town.

It's all information, man! And in my experience (which is limited and sparse, I admit), its real value can only be known as we approach the final days of the game and we can look back and see which players did things that were subtly contradictory in a way that would have scum motivation -- that's the only way that I haver personally ever actually identified scum beyond lucky guesswork.

[Persivul]

I didn't ask for PBPA, I just asked for *any* explanation for your read on me
It could be one word long tbh

Uh...you're scum hunting.

Also the fact that I'm above all other players but Garmr means it's "relatively" pretty strong, even if you don't feel it that strongly
How strong is your read on me, though? I'll let you put words in your own mouth, if you object to mine

Lean town is the strongest I'll put anyone rn.

Garmr yeah readslist and maybe a new vote coming in a minute or two

Damn, just as I'm coming around on bji.

[Irrelephant11]

dude vote whoever your heart desires
if you're coming around on bji let's get him to claim already u kno?

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry, I haven't played in quite some time, I thought it was the expected outcome of an L-1 position.

I thought everyone was so hot for "information". Why doesn't a claim qualify?

The main info town is looking for is the person's reaction, who gets on the wagon, and whether a counter wagon forms.

Scum like to find roles.

So you actually believe the claim will be factual just because the person is at L-1?

If Raya/Creature is scum (which I think is more likely true than anything else I've seen this game) then the claim doesn't matter as it's a lie anyway - and if it's a lie that gets the slot off the hook today, it will almost certainly bury it later on. If Creature is town, then I'm assuming that he will be smart enough to make the claim that is best for town.

It's all information, man! And in my experience (which is limited and sparse, I admit), its real value can only be known as we approach the final days of the game and we can look back and see which players did things that were subtly contradictory in a way that would have scum motivation -- that's the only way that I haver personally ever actually identified scum beyond lucky guesswork.

The bolded is confusing me
why did you feel the need to make that point?

[Persivul]

The main info town is looking for is the person's reaction, who gets on the wagon, and whether a counter wagon forms.

Scum like to find roles.

So you actually believe the claim will be factual just because the person is at L-1?

If Raya/Creature is scum (which I think is more likely true than anything else I've seen this game) then the claim doesn't matter as it's a lie anyway - and if it's a lie that gets the slot off the hook today, it will almost certainly bury it later on.

If Creature is town, then I'm assuming that he will be smart enough to make the claim that is best for town.

It's all information, man! And in my experience (which is limited and sparse, I admit), its real value can only be known as we approach the final days of the game and we can look back and see which players did things that were subtly contradictory in a way that would have scum motivation -- that's the only way that I haver personally ever actually identified scum beyond lucky guesswork.[/quote]

Suppose he's cop. What's the claim that's best for town?

[Persivul]

EBWOP for quote tags

So you actually believe the claim will be factual just because the person is at L-1?

If Raya/Creature is scum (which I think is more likely true than anything else I've seen this game) then the claim doesn't matter as it's a lie anyway - and if it's a lie that gets the slot off the hook today, it will almost certainly bury it later on.

If Creature is town, then I'm assuming that he will be smart enough to make the claim that is best for town.

It's all information, man! And in my experience (which is limited and sparse, I admit), its real value can only be known as we approach the final days of the game and we can look back and see which players did things that were subtly contradictory in a way that would have scum motivation -- that's the only way that I haver personally ever actually identified scum beyond lucky guesswork.

Suppose he's cop. What's the claim that's best for town?

[Irrelephant11]

{Garmr, skitter, clemency}
{bji, creature}
{reaper, persivul}
{sashaddin}

VOTE: sashaddin
Seems very *I'm here and talking, which is towny, right?* and based on others' "hmm probably town but the read doesn't hold if I really think about it" I'd put my money on this slot being scum over the two lurker-y slots (which is not to say I townread either of those slots)
Reaper can still be busy-IRL scum
Persivul can still be scum playing hard to avoid a wagon
If bji or creature are scum I doubt I'll catch them out this game day
Feel good with my top row, or at least, as good as I can given skitter and garmr both have strong scumgames iirc (definitely skitter, maybe I made that up about garmr? lol). Strength of the read? I would defend any of these three from a lynch, probably

[bji]

Please quote me one or more for each of the following categories:
-Factual observations about the game

Post 245: "This game is definitely the slowest I've played so far. "
Post 257: The entirety of post 257.
Post 292: "We need the lurkers to come out!!"
Post 295: "bji was voting twice here. Trump was right about voter fraud! "
Post 378: "1. We haven't heard of the TexdoesHalo slot for the entire game"
Post 594: "The slot is active and won't be mod-killed"
etc.

-Casual votes based on those observations

Post 291: "I'm with bji on this one. I personally prefer to see that guy lynched than modkilled, per 228. Poor reason to lynch but better than the contrary.
VOTE: TexdoesHalo"
Post 594: "UNVOTE: Persivul
The slot is active and won't be mod-killed, and the guy seems towny for the time I've to catch up."

(NOTE: this post came after my post which you are questioning, so it's not direct evidence for my explanation of my town read of Sash at that time; and it's also not a vote, but an unvote; but I am presenting it because it is consistent with my read of Sash handling his votes pretty casually - which to me means, they don't seem like they have much conviction or are meant to be very convincing to other players)

-Discussions of game mechanics

Post 226: "Killing the slot gives us one less lynch by putting us in Mylo Day 3 instead of Lylo Day 4. Can someone confirm this? I wanna know if I got it right."
Post 228: The entirety of post 228.
Post 229: The entirety of post 229.
Post 236: The entirety of post 236.
Post 238: The entirety of post 238.
etc.

-Evidence in scum casing other players

Post 99: "I thought bji appeared a lot more scummy to me than Clemency
Tunneling over a single idea, so soon, appears a lot more scummy than Clemency's posting."

(NOTE: this is against me, but I don't think it was an unreasonable way to view the Clemency/bji early exchange)

Post 264: "Before post 56, I was thinking bji to be town-ish, casual and pleasant. At 56 he's building a case on thin air. At the bottom of that post, he says: "I hereby state that Clemency is scum playing a chatty opener." Well it's bji I feel, sense, imagine as a wolf in sheep's clothing, chatting us away."

(NOTE: again against me, but it seems like rational town paranoia)

Post 264: "138 and 139 were equally bad for both protagonists. The discussion between them continues for a some posts and looks like an early SvS to me, engaging a lot but without real force:"

(NOTE: AGAIN against me but he walks back from it a little bit later)

And then also explain why the first and third of those are town-indicative.

I guess I don't see why scum would bother posting all of that; in my mind I envision a much more evil scum game plan than just making factual observations and discussing game mechanics. But now that I've gone through this exercise I do admit that my initial strong townread was based to some degree on just gut feels about how scum would behave, which is not so convincing after all. Obviously, however, eventually I should consider other positions.

I mean, I need to consider the fact that looking this townie because it evokes such a nonthreatening position could in fact be exactly the scum!Sashaddin game plan.

[bji]

Suppose he's cop. What's the claim that's best for town?

I don't know really. I could venture some guesses -- buy why would you want me to do that?

It is my assumption that those with power roles will know how to protect them and that an L-1 claim will not endanger them. If that is not the case, then I guess town sucks and we will probably lose.

[Creature]

If Creature is town, then I'm assuming that he will be smart enough to make the claim that is best for town.

I'll be smart enough to not make the claim unless town did try a lot of alternatives first.

[Creature]

Irre is probtown

[Creature]

and now I think Reaper is scum

[bji]

and now I think Reaper is scum

Why Irrelephant town? Why reaper scum? Why make me ask why instead of just explaining yourself at the start?

[Creature]

Why make me ask why instead of just explaining yourself at the start?

I make snap reads.

That's how I play.

[Creature]

I liked Irre's recent posts meanwhile I'm getting the feeling Reaper is just coasting this day

[Irrelephant11]

I'm willing to say bji just went up a half-step in my reads
didn't actually expect that post to come to existence full-fledged tbh

But yes, I agree with your conclusion that this play is actually fairly likely to be scum!Sashaddin's gameplan.
Compare Sashaddin's *towny feel by way of unthreatening* to your other townreads. Are you townreading anyone else for not getting their hands dirty (maybe you are but shame on you if so)? On the contrary, don't most of your townreads come from those who are willing to get into the fray to reveal others' alignments? Sashaddin's play seems to be mostly made up of Information Instead of Analysis (linked for whoever keeps asking for explanations of terminology)
My only hang-up on lynching Sashaddin is they appear to be new, but otoh they wouldn't be the first newbie to go wide-eyed and curious as a way of playing out their red role PM

[Creature]

I already played with Sashaddin before

[bji]

VOTE: sashaddin
Seems very *I'm here and talking, which is towny, right?* and based on others' "hmm probably town but the read doesn't hold if I really think about it" I'd put my money on this slot being scum over the two lurker-y slots (which is not to say I townread either of those slots)

I am agreeing with you - see my previous post - that Sash's play does seem like that, and that it did draw me in until you made me explain it but -- why is it more likely to be scum than town? If you can't draw the conclusion that this play style is town because it "looks so town", why can you draw the conclusion that it is scum because it "looks so town"?

Reaper can still be busy-IRL scum

This is true, but I am increasingly frustrated that this slot is getting such a free pass. We are almost at the end of Day 1 and there is almost nothing to evaluate here.

Persivul can still be scum playing hard to avoid a wagon

This is true.

If bji or creature are scum I doubt I'll catch them out this game day

But creature isn't the only player to have generated content for that slot. I'm just glancing at your ISO and I notice that your first vote was for Raya and that you had reasons ... but you don't seem to be too concerned with those reasons any more, and aren't even paying close attention to what others have had to say about Raya (you asked Persivul about his Raya read as if he hadn't given a read, after he had already posted about Raya two or three times). Odd.

[bji]

I am quite convinced that in post game discussion I am either going to look like a genius or a complete idiot. Probably the latter

[Irrelephant11]

cool, be paranoid about me after creature flips red
till then my read has just changed. *shrug*

As for Sashaddin, it's scummy because it only "looks so town" on first pass. It isn't content made to scumhunt; it's content made to avoid attention while seeming active. No one can point to anything Sashaddin did that is more likely to come from town than scum. In this gamestate where most other players seem pretty explicitly towny, that's enough for a lynch imo

@creature how does this Sash compare to whatever-alignment-Sash you've played with before?

[Irrelephant11]

Also this

Post 291: "I'm with bji on this one. I personally prefer to see that guy lynched than modkilled, per 228. Poor reason to lynch but better than the contrary.
VOTE: TexdoesHalo
"Post 594: "UNVOTE: Persivul
The slot is active and won't be mod-killed, and the guy seems towny for the time I've to catch up." (NOTE: this post came after my post which you are questioning, so it's not direct evidence for my explanation of my town read of Sash at that time; and it's also not a vote, but an unvote; but I am presenting it because it is consistent with my read of Sash handling his votes pretty casually - which to me means, they don't seem like they have much conviction or are meant to be very convincing to other players)

does not read to me like "casual voting based on factual observations"
it looks like careful voting coming from someone who doesn't know how to vote for town without getting attention for it

[Creature]

e are almost at the end of Day 1 and there is almost nothing to evaluate here.

Like everybody has been coasting on one single consensus scumread

[Creature]

If there's another consensus scumread besides me, it's obviously not getting pushed at all.