Excalibur [Endgame]

[Auro]

I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

Looks like you're trying to lead him to say he's anti-town.
I actually weakly think UT is town.

[Auro]

UT what do you think of LLD?

DVa, what are your reads?

[DVa]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

[Dunnstral]

I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

Looks like you're trying to lead him to say he's anti-town.
I actually weakly think UT is town.

Change 'to say' to 'to admit' and it doesn't look scummy

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Because he agreed with 216 and auro worships that post

[VeridianCleric]

The part I haven't been able to figure out is how the dual/gladiate works?
do both have to accept the dual? what prevents
Player A Challenging Player B Challenging Player C Challenging Player A??

or is it that once the challenge is made the Galidator ring begins, period end of story, no declining. period.

[Dunnstral]

There's no declining a challenge

[Auro]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Given the current gamestate with multiple people saying they'd policy vote gladiates, this seems like daring behavior from UT, right? Of course he might just be discouraging town cohesion, but just comes off as a troll of some sort -- wouldn't he be bit more careful as scum?

[Dunnstral]

Everyone let us all begin by giving our Arthur reveal.

If you don’t know what I mean I am saying we all soft Merlin role and claim a person to be Arthur.
In case Merlin is night killed/lynched by accident we have our cleared townie.

Let me begin:
Varsoon is Arthur

Fuuuuck no
Read the mechanics again.

Ah Gamma your no fun ;) Firebringers idea was good because we the anybody who is unwilling is likely scum and the true Merlin can't say the actual Arthur so can pick somebody who is not he
therefore They who be Merlin can safely point at any other fellow muggle to distract the scum. If Merlin gets dueled/killed than we know the target is not Arthur.

Probably shouldn't be pushing stuff like this if you don't fully understand the setup, by the way

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Given the current gamestate with multiple people saying they'd policy vote gladiates, this seems like daring behavior from UT, right? Of course he might just be discouraging town cohesion, but just comes off as a troll of some sort -- wouldn't he be bit more careful as scum?

???

UT didn't gladiate anyone...

[Dunnstral]

People are saying they'd policy vote the person who funfires the gladiate at someone else

[Auro]

He didn't. He said something like "I'm not using hurt tags, just gladiate your scumreads" earlier and that's what I'm referring to.

[Gamma Emerald]

Lady, I think you should change your location to currently in a Rage

You dingus, that’s a memorial to LLD’s precious title

[Untrod Tripod]

I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

This part reads to me a lot like you saying you'd rather have fun than win the game

Looks like you're trying to lead him to say he's anti-town.

I mean, that is a thing that is happening yes but he's like willfully misinterpreting a post of mine and is trying to catch me in some kind of imaginary scumslip. It's dumb and sad and I might as well respond to it now because it seems like he's just gonna bang on about it until I do.

I'm not particularly ashamed to say this: I play games to have fun, I feel like if I turn a game into a miserable experience for the other players I have in a larger way lost even if I win. Trying to take this setup, which is centered around a bulletproof vig, gladiator lynches, and a Merlin character, and trying to yell at people until they nullify it into being some kind of weird IC-finder and normal lynch game is not something I'm going to go along with. That's not fun for me, especially since I have the potential to be the bulletproof vig. I'm gonna try to be the bulletproof vig and I'm gonna kill anime avatars until the game ends.

I've played (and won) plenty of games where I was toxic or focused on mechanics for the sake of being able to say "Yeah but I won" and I never enjoyed the victories. Thus, I always play to my wincon, but I also always play to have fun.

[DVa]

Gamma Emerald -- probable town
Varsoon -- possible town
MariaR -- possible town
Dunnstral -- possible town

Something_Smart -- null
VeridianCleric -- null
SirCakez -- null
Ariane -- null
Nancy Drew 39 -- null
Frozen Angel -- MIA

Auro -- possible scum
Elsa Jay -- possible scum
Firebringer -- claimed scum
Untrod Tripod -- possible scum
Lady Lambdadelta -- possible scum
Kokichi Oma -- possible scum

only 4 scum so need to sort the town out of my possible scums at some point.

[VeridianCleric]

If there is no declining gladiates that makes sense then if multiple people request the sword is the decision on who is getting the sword occur before or after the Fallens' Nighkill?

As the sword recipient is randomly selected from those whom commanded to retrieve it, I would imagine the selection is done from the remaining knights after the nightkill has been performed.

[Gamma Emerald]

@Varsoon: He said confirmed *in* LyLo, not claiming in LyLo, there's a difference, right?
You don't think Merlin/Swordholder works better as a hidden IC till the day before LyLo, as opposed to coming out in D2 where he becomes an obvious NK?

It's not confirmable.

An example from 3p LYLO.
Player 1: I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 2: No, I'm Merlin and have the sword
Player 3: Oh no! This plan had an obvious hole in it! Who could have ever predicted it!

I don't love us trying to "solve" the game like it's a fucking math problem. What I've seen in other games when this happened was scum got to hide in mechanics talk all game instead of having to actually engage with other players.

oh and no thanks on hurt tags. I say you gladiate your scum reads. I joined this game because the mechanics were different. Let's keep it different.

this is a fun game because it gives over half the game the chance to be BP vig. Who doesn't want that power? I'm claiming the sword every time I can and I'm going to try to vig shit. If I die I die. I'm more interested in having a unique experience than I am in trying to game the setup to be something it wasn't designed to be.

Hold on a second, are you saying you think that something else is the optimal way to win the game but you don't like it and would rather play to have fun, or did I misinterpret this?

Okay I need to read back, like,

yesterday

, but I have a good idea of who might be scum from reading this now.

[Dunnstral]

OK

and again, I never said you said anything, I asked you a question, saying I was leading you to say something or putting words in your mouth is a misrepresentation on it's own

[DVa]

Guess thinking about it I should do this even though it's just gut right now

HURT: Kokichi

[Dunnstral]

Okay I need to read back, like, yesterday, but I have a good idea of who might be scum from reading this now.

ok gamma

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Setup

Setup

• You are
  Knight Errants
  , chivalrous adventurers seeking to punish evil wherever you find it.
  
• Four of you are
  Fallen Knights
  , who seek to bring down the
  Knight Errants
  . They will murder one player each night.
  
• All matters are settled with
  duels
  , not
  lynches
  . Each of you may publicly
  challenge
  another to a duel, which
  gladiates
  the two of you.
  
• The legendary sword,
  Excalibur
  , lies
  unclaimed
  in public.
  
• Anyone can secretly
  claim
  Excalibur
  during the night, and transform into a
  Bulletproof Vigilante
  . It will be publicly announced that the sword has been
  claimed
  , but not the identity of the player who
  claimed
  it.
  
• If you are not the rightful owner of the sword, you will
  die
  instead of your target when you try to
  vig
  someone. If a
  Mafia
  -aligned player
  claims
  Excalibur
  , then he/she will immediately
  die
  .
  
• Note that if more than one player try to
  claim
  the
  Excalibur
  during the night, one of them will be
  randomly
  chosen for the sword.
  
• If the player who has the
  Excalibur
  dies, then it becomes publicly
  unclaimed
  again. You cannot willingly
  unclaim
  the sword.
  
• One of the
  Knight Errants
  is
  Arthur
  , the rightful owner of
  Excalibur
  , but he is
  unaware
  of his true nature and will receive a simple
  Knight Errant Role PM
  . (but will still flip as
  Arthur
  )
  
• Thankfully, one of you is the wizard
  Merlin
  , who is aware of
  Arthur's
  true identity. Merlin also knows who has the
  Excalibur
  at all times.
  
• Merlin
  cannot just outright say who
  Arthur
  is, because
  Mafia

  Nightkill
  resolves before the

  claiming

  of the sword.
  
  
• Finally, if there is only one
  Fallen Knight
  remaining, then he/she will surrender and the game will end in
  Town

  Victory
  .

Town Win Condition

You win when there is only one

Mafia

-aligned players

remaining

, and there is at least one

Town

-aligned players

alive

.

Scum Win Condition

You win when number of

Mafia

-aligned players

alive

is greater than or equal to the number of

Town

-aligned players

alive

.

[Gamma Emerald]

Unless, you’re suggesting that anyone who has the sword must also attrmpt to vig? But since this is not a desperado role, that only results in dead townies, so having Merlin confirm Arthur after he already has the sword makes sense, doesn’t it?

If one person grabs the sword and never tries to shoot it, then arthur never gets ahold of it in the first place though

If they don't vig they're confirmed town, yes, which is useful in it's own right (in fact, if arthur never grabs the sword then we have, potentially, an additional confirmed town to narrow things down), BUT it also means we have less power to try to put the sword on other people

Wacky theory:
Kills happen before claiming right? So wouldn’t an attempted claim the same night a non-Arthur Town shoots get the sword? That could be a way to expedite the sword changing hands.

@FakeGod What happens if someone tries to claim when the sword is already claimed?

[Dunnstral]

Gamma Emerald -- probable town
Varsoon -- possible town
MariaR -- possible town
Dunnstral -- possible town

Something_Smart -- null
VeridianCleric -- null
SirCakez -- null
Ariane -- null
Nancy Drew 39 -- null
Frozen Angel -- MIA

Auro -- possible scum
Elsa Jay -- possible scum
Firebringer -- claimed scum
Untrod Tripod -- possible scum
Lady Lambdadelta -- possible scum
Kokichi Oma -- possible scum

only 4 scum so need to sort the town out of my possible scums at some point.

I like this (not just because I'm in town)

I see you're voting Kokichi though - can you go over why he's scum? I don't think I could get a read on him from his content so far

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay I need to read back, like, yesterday, but I have a good idea of who might be scum from reading this now.

ok gamma

Did I say it was you

[Dunnstral]

Gamma, if the sword is claimed then it's publicly revealed to be claimed, if that person dies it's publicly unclaimed again

Trying to claim the sword when it's not there (you would know it's not there, too) should do nothing