Excalibur [Endgame]

[DVa]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

ok who specifically is trolling and do you therefore think they're scum?

[Auro]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

That's exactly what UT is doing but he's town to you because "would he be that bold" or something

UT doesn't seem to be trolling individuals. His perspective is valid, if not game-winning in that he also wants to have fun and not discard certain mechanics just because "optimum".

He's not triggering anyone.

[Dunnstral]

I actually weakly think UT is town.

why?

Given the current gamestate with multiple people saying they'd policy vote gladiates, this seems like daring behavior from UT, right? Of course he might just be discouraging town cohesion, but just comes off as a troll of some sort -- wouldn't he be bit more careful as scum?

He didn't. He said something like "I'm not using hurt tags, just gladiate your scumreads" earlier and that's what I'm referring to.

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

Trolls are really dangerous this game, and town should NOT fall into their traps.

[Auro]

Emphasis on "but don't say how"

we did say how

Which wasn't convincing.
They were rebutted, and thereafter left.

[Dunnstral]

Auro you just said he comes off as a troll, stop backtracking

[Auro]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

ok who specifically is trolling and do you therefore think they're scum?

Got those vibes from Kokichi, she did this in early game too if I remember right.

[Dunnstral]

Which wasn't convincing

It doesn't matter what you think of the arguments, saying that nobody argued at all is demonstratively false

[VeridianCleric]

there are multiple theories to manage the game, some great some not so much
the issue is that those of the fallen knowing our strategy can easily play through it.

The idea that everybody claims makes the thou who doth claim the sword random, so the fallen can simply not claim, we knowith not if they did or not

The idea that if the Nobel Arthur befalls us than the fallen just claim as our wizardy friend is also rediculas as than we rally to together to allow Merlin to claim the sword freely in that case and if it's truly a hidden fallen then they die, and if it was really merlin the fallen likely target the wizard anyhow and thus dies (as knightkill resolves before swordclaim) as twould be suicide for the fallen to allow merlin the sword.


what I see is this, two are Gladiating today,

we have three people declare intention to claim the sword tongith, of those only those three claim. the Fallen must select from one of our worthy comrades whom to try and kill, as they only get one shot we know of the remaining two that one received the sword and is our protectorate.
we leave it to that person to declare the Challenges for the next day on the third sword commander and we excommunicate their opposition without prejudice. This gives no doubt that the claiment has the sword.
There can be no more noble a cause to lay ones life down for their fellows in arms

how it doesn't work, the fallen can't claim the sword they die, so that bypasses that
anybody outside the three whom claim are working anti-town anyhow and should be excommunicated
if the fallen target somebody outside the three they are either attempting to protect a comrad or put doubt on the living.

with starting as 13-4 this gives the chance we COULD lose 4 Arturian knights going into Day 3 (Gladiate, Nightkill, policy Glaidate, Nightkill)
however, than we have 9-4 minimum, with a confirmed protected member of the round table and anybody who counter claims having the sword is working against town and either the fallen attempting to lead us astray or somebody playing anti-town. either way the gladiator candidate.
if they flip fallen, we immedietly know original betrayed us, and is target for Day 4. Still should keep us at 7-4, 7-3 for EOD 4 a position to repeate the process with improved odds,

in all the town wins by day 6, and we don't need to risk loosing Arthur with a Blood thirsty Vig.


With this idea as well, it allows merlin to participate in the volunteering process to hide their position and as such could step in only if they witness that Arthur has stepped up to claim the sword. Allows the rest of us to know that Arthur has Excalibur without Merlin breaching rules stating whom it was. Then hence forth Arthur will have the sword and Glaidator protection, double power to freely wield as so wisely they doth choose.

[Gamma Emerald]

Ya'll are hard over-thinking this shit, which, imo, is what scum wants.
It's really fuckin' simple.

Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2, Merlin claims to become IC and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
Town has 2 ICs on D2 and a secret BP IC or
Town has 1 IC on D2 and a secret BP Vig IC
If Non-confirmed-Arthur town gets the sword, they never attempt to vig with it because they are just going to shoot themselves in the foot 12 out of 14 times.

And that's it.
There's no more optimal play around it.
If you try to publicly gate who goes for the sword, you don't account for
1. Townies that disregard this shit
2. Scum having control of killing claimants/not
Basically playing around it as a public cop only works once and even then it's iffy.

Our goal should be to shut the fuck up and stop tilting who may or may not be Merlin and just scumhunt
There's no more point to discussing the Sword mechanics.

This...actually feels viable? Let’s break this down:
Everyone claims the sword - if we remove Merlin, who should avoid going for the sword in this strategy, there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1. That feels like nice odds to me? Someone tell me if a perfectly rand chance of hitting scum is bad. Of course this crumbles if Mafia don’t go for it, which would probably be the case here. So on further thought, not good at all.
We have a BP town who can claim if dueled - I feel like the issue here is promoting a random person getting the sword means a barely active player could get it. I definitely feel like having one person claim it is a good call, and especially LLD. LLD is concerned about paranoia right? Well the best way to deal with the likes of LLD, players with great influence as both alignments, is to have them claim it alone, if they flip scum woot, if they don’t we have an IC that can lead Town well.
Merlin always claims D2 - if my theory I posted is right this is bad. With a quick cycling of the sword we can effectively get it to Arthur faster, which makes Merlin staying hidden smarter so he can confirm when Arthur has the sword.
Non-Arthur with the sword should never use it - DUH

I think this was an honest effort but it’s pretty wrong.

[Auro]

Auro you just said he comes off as a troll, stop backtracking

Yes, and after his responses to you, he looks less like a troll and more like someone who just wants to enjoy the game.

Contrast with players jibing at players and claiming to read them perfectly and fling scum accusations at them.

Firebringer too, for example.

[DVa]

Got those vibes from Kokichi, she did this in early game too if I remember right.

I mean, Kokichi is scummy, but I don't see how he can be characterized as trolling here

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler:

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

Not feeling this
HURT: Auro btw

Why? Do you know she flipped town?

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.

Bad logic.

But I kinda feel auro is town.

gamma scummy

HURT: gamma

Compared to Witches Ball this is "aggressive"

I know compared to Varsoon it's like lying in a meadow of flowers but I'm going by how he usually sounds as town

I don't really agree with that, here are some of his first posts in witch's ball:

Spoiler:

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

Weird.

I originally interpreted that as her thinking you were expendable.

How? If shes scum she doesnt want to be stuck without someone. I'm likely to accept her since we play a lot together.

By the way I'm lynching the firebringer duo first. Whoever he pairs with

Her explanation for proposing to you was that she doesn't think she'd be one of the players to fall into one of the T-T dance pairs.

Yes because I have a tendency to get SR when im town.

In what world

Also as far as I remember troll FB is town FB so FB is town.

The fuck is this btw

Possible scum interaction

Looks just as aggressive if not more to me

[Untrod Tripod]

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I noticed you stopped arguing about the game just to pester me, why don't you go do something else?

Huh? It's a particular type of argument tactic where you try to make people defend themselves for something they didn't do. That directly relates.

[Dunnstral]

Everyone claims the sword - if we remove Merlin, who should avoid going for the sword in this strategy, there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.

NO

There's no way to tell who goes for the sword or not

MAFIA DON'T HAVE TO GRAB THE SWORD, especially when there's like 10 town going for it it's not even suspicious that they don't get it

[VeridianCleric]

The issue Gamma is if everybody claims the Fallen don't have to bother, and therefore they never instant-die because of that

the Request for holly Excalibur is done via PM, so we don't know whom of the noble circle has requested to extract it from the rock, only that it has been claimed, and even than not by whom.

[Dunnstral]

There's no way to tell who went for the sword or not, except for a person claiming the sword or the sword not getting claimed outright

[DVa]

there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.

There's 0% chance scum claim the sword Gamma don't shake my read on you

[Dunnstral]

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I'd prefer to keep things on topic to this game and not enter into controversial/uncomfortable grounds, please

I noticed you stopped arguing about the game just to pester me, why don't you go do something else?

Huh? It's a particular type of argument tactic where you try to make people defend themselves for something they didn't do. That directly relates.

Again I ask you: Do he get to say "stop putting words in my mouth" when you ask that question, or no?

No right? That's not what happened? Yet it's what you're accusing me of doing

[Auro]

there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.

There's 0% chance scum claim the sword Gamma don't shake my read on you

He said in his next sentence, "Of course this crumbles if Maf don't go for it, which is the probable case"

[DVa]

LLD is concerned about paranoia right?

LLD is scummy, so I'm not opposed to her claiming the sword, but I don't see why you would be concerned with LLD's paranoia as a force for the town's collective night actions. She's acting as though people are scumreading her based on BoP when literally no one is doing that rn.

[Dunnstral]

Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.

That's exactly what UT is doing but he's town to you because "would he be that bold" or something

UT doesn't seem to be trolling individuals. His perspective is valid, if not game-winning in that he also wants to have fun and not discard certain mechanics just because "optimum".

He's not triggering anyone.

He's trolling right now

[DVa]

He said in his next sentence, "Of course this crumbles if Maf don't go for it, which is the probable case"

Yeah it's just weird seeing Gamma spew out a weird theory only to immediately dismiss it tbh

[Dunnstral]

And discouraging town cohesion

But you'll still argue it's somehow to bold for him to do that, like you know what UT would do as scum

[VeridianCleric]

@Auro
that's why i posted my suggestion
we have 3 people volunteer (or volunetold) to take the sword
Any and all should be willing to do so, to lay their lives on the line for the town is a noble act.

Anybody who refuses is likely scum

As there is only three doing so than one will receive it the other is policy excommunicated the following day, they will either prove their nobility or fall upon their own sword (so to say)

[Elsa Jay]

532 basically makes me want to follow this man willingly. I like when people put effort into their stuff like that.

On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.