Excalibur [Endgame]

[Auro]

@DVa:
If you're saying your chumminess is strictly as a scumhunting tool, I don't trust you on that.
If you're trying to imply that you'd discard all chumminess because of those factors in 744, then I definitely don't trust you on that.
You were pretty excited to join this game, and I doubt you'd approach it throughout with the dead-serious attitude you've been carrying the entire game.

@Nancy: I'll get to that, what do you think of the DVa meta thing?

[DVa]

@DVa:
If you're saying your chumminess is strictly as a scumhunting tool, I don't trust you on that.
If you're trying to imply that you'd discard all chumminess because of those factors in 744, then I definitely don't trust you on that.
You were pretty excited to join this game, and I doubt you'd approach it throughout with the dead-serious attitude you've been carrying the entire game.

OK

Are you joking as much?

Why are you tryharding so much?

I thought you wanted to channel your inner Not_Mafia?

Should I meta you as scum because you're not joking enough?

[Auro]

+1

@Auro, why are you hard defending him for this? He is advocating a blatantly anti-town plan.

I'm not hard-defending him.
What part of the 'blatantly anti-town plan' are you talking about? Can you go into details on this?
I clearly said I'll vote him if he gladiates without consensus in an early post.

His perspective of not overthinking mechanics, trying to get the sword and vigging people to have fun and enjoy the spirit of the game -- isn't scum-indicative to me.

[DVa]

btw, doing a d1 meta argument is shitty in the first place. Now if I wanted to actually joke because the mechanics discussion was over you'd be overreading into it which means you're basically provoking me into being less funny which is not helping my wim in a game that already has kinda pissed me off

[DVa]

HURT: Auro

Here's what I think of your case on me.

[Auro]

OK

Are you joking as much?

Why are you tryharding so much?

I thought you wanted to channel your inner Not_Mafia?

Should I meta you as scum because you're not joking enough?

I generally don't joke/play with a chummy attitude off the bat, I get comfortable with the playerlist first. If there's a player I'm already comfy with, I'll prolly be a bit more jokey with them, as either alignment. I just completed a scumgame (1898) where my first post had "You can trust me this time, I swear " to a couple players I played with.

I tryhard as either alignment, and YOU know that. If I would comment on this, I think I tryhard a lot less carefully when I'm town.

You also know I wasn't aiming to channel my inner Not_Mafia

this

game. I exhibited interest in the mechanics and possible solves to you BEFORE the game started.

You

can't

meta me as scum because I'm not joking enough, that would simply be false.

[Auro]

btw, doing a d1 meta argument is shitty in the first place. Now if I wanted to actually joke because the mechanics discussion was over you'd be overreading into it which means you're basically provoking me into being less funny which is not helping my wim in a game that already has kinda pissed me off

I never said your meta applied only to D1.
You have 80+ posts till now.
Why would you refrain from joking just because there was mechanics discussion going place in the middle?
Where has this game pissed you off already?

HURT: Auro

Here's what I think of your case on me.

Aww.
(FWIW, in the current gamestate scum!me would have attempted to pocket you by now)

[DVa]

I generally don't joke/play with a chummy attitude off the bat, I get comfortable with the playerlist first.

OK, and I'm already familiar with the vast majority of this player list. So maybe I'm not being as "chummy" because I have already used most of my opening jokes with half the players in this game, and the ones I'm unfamiliar with haven't really inspired me to be funny

So you yourself admit that your level of chumminess varies based on your familiarity with a player list. In that case, why would you think that I would be the same amount of chummy with a playerlist that I'm already familiar with as a playerlist that I'm meeting for the first time?

You're acting as though I would play this like a newbie game where I literally know one person, instead of a game composed of like 20 people I literally just completed a game with.

[DVa]

Where has this game pissed you off already?

Are you being intentionally dense? Maybe the part where Varsoon told me to die because he didn't like my plan?

Sure wish you rolled town here but I don't think you're changing my read based on how shitty this push is.

[DVa]

(FWIW, in the current gamestate scum!me would have attempted to pocket you by now)

Early townread on DVa as well.

You were evaluating me as town based on play earlier but now have decided to flip your read for reachy meta reasons, shortly after I indicate I'm not townreading you.

You were trying to pocket me and now when you saw it was backfiring you're trying to push.

Sorry you rolled scum Auro.

[Auro]

OK, and I'm already familiar with the vast majority of this player list. So maybe I'm not being as "chummy" because I have already used most of my opening jokes with half the players in this game, and the ones I'm unfamiliar with haven't really inspired me to be funny

So you yourself admit that your level of chumminess varies based on your familiarity with a player list. In that case, why would you think that I would be the same amount of chummy with a playerlist that I'm already familiar with as a playerlist that I'm meeting for the first time?

You're acting as though I would play this like a newbie game where I literally know one person, instead of a game composed of like 20 people I literally just completed a game with.

Yeah except it's not a set of jokes to re-use when you find someone new, it's a friendly attitude in general that you adopt.

My

chumminess is, to an extent, dependent on familiarity, yes. The more familiar, the more chummy I could get -- that too, usually not something I initiate. Mine's a direct correlation, not an inverse.

If anything it feels to me that it's unnatural for you to be absolutely 0 chummy with a highly familiar playerlist.

[Auro]

Where has this game pissed you off already?

Are you being intentionally dense? Maybe the part where Varsoon told me to die because he didn't like my plan?

Sure wish you rolled town here but I don't think you're changing my read based on how shitty this push is.

You're pretty darn experienced, and I don't think you'd get as pissed off at

the game

because of that. Also, you know Varsoon.

You were evaluating me as town based on play earlier but now have decided to flip your read for reachy meta reasons, shortly after I indicate I'm not townreading you.

You were trying to pocket me and now when you saw it was backfiring you're trying to push.

Sorry you rolled scum Auro.

I townread you because I thought I could see how your perspective towards the mechanic philosophy would shape your thoughts on strategy, and it seemed to come from town!DVa.
Making an "early townread" isn't pocketing. You've seen how I pocketed people in my scumgame. I cozy up, begin to work with them, treat their slot like we're on the same team and work from there, etc etc. IMO it's the style of engagement which enables me to pocket people, when I do.

And you don't have to be sorry, cos I did not.

[DVa]

cos I did not.

Where's your "I'm lying when I say I am" response? Why so serious Auro?

[MariaR]

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?

I could see you flipping scum yes but I would rather see you go for the sword then dual.

I find it interesting you want me to duel day 1. I think that seems strictly suboptimal, don't you?

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the dual you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

[MariaR]

You seem towny this game - are you mafia?

If I was asked to explain my game in a 1 quote it'd be this

[DVa]

I don't think you'd get as pissed off at the game because of that

To be clear, you think that someone telling me TO DIE in a game I play for FUN would not make me less interested in being jokey?

I do know Varsoon, as scum he was very pleasant. As town he's obnoxious. So yeah, at the moment that makes me even more annoyed, because if he claims the sword I'm dealing with a game where the most obnoxious person is going to get the sword and never use it. So no, this game has not been as fun so far as I was anticipating. So now the game is disappointing and you're trying to push a scumcase on me because this game isn't as fun as I thought it'd be.

Keep pushing it Auro. Keep pushing it and see where it gets you.

[Auro]

cos I did not.

Where's your "I'm lying when I say I am" response? Why so serious Auro?

Because this wasn't your question.

Auro, this is your one chance! Are you the scum? You know I can see right through you! Tell the truth... or else!

[DVa]

So who do you want to gladiate Auro? Would you prefer LLD or UT?

[DVa]

So who do you want to gladiate Auro? Would you prefer LLD or UT?

You should start thinking about this because you're gladiating today and then you're going to killed with a sword.

[Auro]

I don't think you'd get as pissed off at the game because of that

To be clear, you think that someone telling me TO DIE in a game I play for FUN would not make me less interested in being jokey?

I do know Varsoon, as scum he was very pleasant. As town he's obnoxious. So yeah, at the moment that makes me even more annoyed, because if he claims the sword I'm dealing with a game where the most obnoxious person is going to get the sword and never use it. So no, this game has not been as fun so far as I was anticipating. So now the game is disappointing and you're trying to push a scumcase on me because this game isn't as fun as I thought it'd be.

Keep pushing it Auro. Keep pushing it and see where it gets you.

To be clear, I don't think it would

piss you off

, coming from Varsoon.
I'm open to hear other thoughts on this and their own meta-eval of you.

This is a valid concern - Gladiation mechanics means the holder may force us to kills, if town never lynches the holder.

like this seems like fearmongering

We are not playing around the assumption that the sword holder plays like garbage.

If you were pretty annoyed by the thought of Varsoon taking the sword and obnoxiously not using the sword (which is very much bad play to you), would you say this? I know that you were only referring to the Swordholder gladiating their scumreads without town consensus, but still. O.o

So who do you want to gladiate Auro? Would you prefer LLD or UT?

What's the intent behind this question?

[DVa]

HEAL: All
HURT: Auro

You're now my only priority.

[Auro]

HEAL: All
HURT: Auro

You're now my only priority.

Uh huh.
Go ahead and case me, aside from my meta-push on you.

[Auro]

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the duel you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

You're not scumreading LLD. If she loses and flips people lose the excuse of pushing her, but she's also dead. O.o
Are you scumreading Something_Smart? If not, why do you want two non-scumreads to duel?
Sword claiming is independent of the duel, right? If you want LLD to claim it, why make her gladiate first?

[Varsoon]

We can have civil discussions but you framing it like I'm the problem here when it's clear you haven't read my posts is troubling.

You haven't fully explained why the mass claim would need to be d2 though. By your logic it seems as though mass claim should be d1. Why not day 3? Why is the math best on d2 specifically?

Mass Claim D1 means Arthur can NEVER get the sword.
Mass Claim D2 gives us the best chances of having the most conf-town at the same time.

[Varsoon]

So... you still haven't done what I asked. Do you agree with the following:

Confirming the highest number of town is not the best goal. If an obvious townie who was going to die at night turns out to be confirmed, it does nothing for us.

What we want is one of two things: confirmed townies that scum can't kill before it matters (either BP or confirmed

in LYLO

), or being able to choose who gets confirmed (because we can pick scummy players to get either guiltied or confirmed).

or not? And if not, why do you disagree?

Yes I have responded to that point in particular and it's maddening for you to repeat that I haven't over and over.

No, I disagree entirely.
I disagree because what I want (and what we should want) is a plan that works REGARDLESS of town cohesion, and that works AS SOON AS POSSIBLE and that GIVES US THE MOST GUARANTEED LEVERAGE OVER SCUM;
If we have 2 confirmed in Merlin-Arthur on D2 with a hidden third BP player that can later confirm, that's the best possible situation for us.
Our lynch pool shrinks from 15 to 12 on D2 which is HUGELY SIGNIFICANT.
People have been trying to shade the sword-claimant thing but so long as our Sword-Holder just claims THE DAY BEFORE LYLO, counterclaims don't beat it and we are guaranteed a BP IC going into LYLO.
This is literally the only way we are guaranteed any ICs going into LYLO as every other plan hinges too much on keeping Merlin/Arthur hidden until at least D3 or later without realizing one of two things:
1. LYLO is D5 in this setup.
2. Every Night that Merlin/Arthur go unclaimed is another huge risk we take that scum kills Merlin and we lose two ICs.

So, to REITERATE because I know some people might just be dense and not get it:
1. The problem with 'wait to confirm Merlin' plans is that they are very high risk for relatively low reward (to get an single extra IC into LYLO, Merlin would have to claim D4 at the earliest and go un-gladiated and un-killed until then)
2. The problem with 'use the sword to cop players' is that it only works if both town and scum agree to play around it AND if we fail to catch scum with it the first time, it literally won't work because the sword won't become unclaimed unless the townie that claimed it suicides.