Excalibur [Endgame]

[SirCakez]

-holy shit I forgot FA is in this game. wonder where her head is at. i want to call her lack of presence suspicious given my vague recollections of her meta but it's been ages since she's played with me so not great evidence.
-I think the meta case on D.va is pretty weak. One or two games does not make a good sample. cases that revolve around "oh you were funny earlier that game but not this one" always fall flat to me. like auro's analysis of "chumminess" based on like two games feels pretty flawed. that said I think auro's push is genuine so pretty sure dva v auro is TvT.

*claps hands* Just because vig shoots town doesn't mean it was a bad shot *claps hands*

^ this man speaks the truth

I think a good day one duel would be Veridian v. Elsa, or Cakez v. UT or Auro v. Any of those names.

Make people take a stand.

talk more about these people

-S_S can you talk about people besides varsoon?
-I take back my S_S TR. they aren't doing very much to progress the game. while I'm still unsure about varsoon he's right that S_S has been virtue signalling.
-i appreciate auro spoilering the setup talk btw

HEAL: all
HURT: UT
HURT: elsa
HURT: nancy
HURT: lld

^ I think this is where I'm at now. some people i have vague scumleans on for small things like lack of content (FA, kokichi) but not enough to hurt tag. and i'm waffling on varsoon now. I have a decent pool of people who I think could flip scum though so I'll take what I've got.

[Firebringer]

Anyone else surprised that no duel has happened?

[SirCakez]

it's because of all the threats of PL and the fact this game has a certain level of control to it I think
unlike boundaries, DEFCON and similar games where players have lots of power

[Auro]

-I think the meta case on D.va is pretty weak. One or two games does not make a good sample. cases that revolve around "oh you were funny earlier that game but not this one" always fall flat to me. like auro's analysis of "chumminess" based on like two games feels pretty flawed.

It's not based on just one or two games. It matches with pretty much every game DVa has played. Around 5 games at least, just observable evidence - check her profile.

She's an alt, and she would admit that she finds it significantly harder to be "chummy" as scum.

Do these reasons make it stronger to you, Cakez?

[Auro]

I mean 5 games where if she's town, she's a bit chummier, and as scum, pretty serious.

You said my push on her felt genuine to you. Is this something you can explain a bit more in specifics? What would change in my push for it to look fake, for example?

[Varsoon]

Yeah if this was BoR someone would've caught a bullet by now.
What really trips me up is no VCs so it's kinda easy to forget the deadline exists.

[Varsoon]

@MOD: Could we get a Deadline countdown somewhere?

[Auro]

Also I think we should limit ourselves to 2 Hurts at maximum and FoS for the rest.

[Untrod Tripod]

Also I think we should limit ourselves to 2 Hurts at maximum and FoS for the rest.

I could actually be persuaded to do the whole Hurt thing if we only have one or two and keep track of it like an actual VC.

Hell, I'll even volunteer to be the person who keeps track.

[Auro]

Also I think we should limit ourselves to 2 Hurts at maximum and FoS for the rest.

I could actually be persuaded to do the whole Hurt thing if we only have one or two and keep track of it like an actual VC.

Hell, I'll even volunteer to be the person who keeps track.

That would be awesome!

[FakeGod]

@MOD: Could we get a Deadline countdown somewhere?

Added to the Day 1 post.

[MariaR]

If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.

Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?

I could see you flipping scum yes but I would rather see you go for the sword then dual.

I find it interesting you want me to duel day 1. I think that seems strictly suboptimal, don't you?

I think you're going to be pushed regardless if you're scum or not. If you win the dual you go for the sword. If you flip people lose the excuse of pushing you.

This is a bad idea on Day 1 though. With no associatives, if you put me in a duel day 1 it will become about me and not the opponent. It will be a vote on whether people believe I am scum or I am town... in the best case. In the worst case it will be 1) scum finding an excuse to vote for me 2) people deciding that they have little else to go off of and voting for me from Paranoia.

The fact is putting me to duel on day 1 gives town the least possible information. The duel should be between a scummy person and a lurk fuck forcing people to take a stand. We want all of our gladiates to make scum make a choice and create as many associatives as possible.

If I don't have the sword tomorrow, I'm going to be dueling who I think is scum very likely. Simply because then my reads will have matured a little, day 2 votes have a lot less for people to hide behind in terms of reasoning, and it makes people take an actual stand on my alignment instead of playing the Mastina game of "well she could be scum but I dunno" until the cows come home.

No one on the list of big personalities should be dueling people day 1. It's too galvanizing. Force of personality, in one direction or the other, will be a huge confounding factor and ruin too many connections.

Short answer before I get on my computer. You're right but I'll explain more later

[Varsoon]

Thanks.

And yeah, I'd limit myself to two HURTs and be all for it being kept as a player-based VC.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it's a non-negligible possibility, and we should be prepared to deal with it if it happens.

WHO DO YOU IMAGINE DOING THIS THOUGH?

Why is it actually a non-negligible possibility and why is it worth talking about right now when it is so remote?

You know there's no way I can objectively prove the likelihood of this. I can imagine UT doing this (set the vig apart), he literally said "just gladiate your scumreads".

Buddy if you think as king Arthur I'm going to be gladiating people you are sorely mistaken

You have no way of knowing that. Only Merlin knows who Arthur is.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oro should I be scouting the playerlist for 'good at both town and scum, that is both hard to read and very strong to have as a town leader.' myself?

so Maria?

Well yes but I might be biased because I feel I'm above average at reading her

I wasn't necessarily agreeing with SS either, just wondering where he was going with that

So your Maria read has vastly improved since Hourglass then, good to know.

But I am liking her posts so far but then she fooled me in CoH. But for rn, I’m townreading her.

[Nancy Drew 39]

First of all that's shitty behavior because I'd be trying to remove the town's ability to choose lynches and that would make the game really not fun for everyone else

Second I wouldn't give scum an avenue to kill me even if it's remote

Third I'm not gonna pretend that only my reads are valid so other people need to be getting in there and accusing people

That’s what the hurt tags are for - which you claim to be adamantly opposed to.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

LLD flipped scum again it's looking like

Not feeling this
HURT: Auro btw

Why? Do you know she flipped town?

Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.

Bad logic.

But I kinda feel auro is town.

gamma scummy

HURT: gamma

Compared to Witches Ball this is "aggressive"

I know compared to Varsoon it's like lying in a meadow of flowers but I'm going by how he usually sounds as town

I don't really agree with that, here are some of his first posts in witch's ball:

Spoiler:

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

But im most likely never gonna be obvtown nor in a "unequestionably TvT" pairing so I figured why not.

What?

You're always obv town as town. Are you trying to pocket me?

Weird.

I originally interpreted that as her thinking you were expendable.

How? If shes scum she doesnt want to be stuck without someone. I'm likely to accept her since we play a lot together.

By the way I'm lynching the firebringer duo first. Whoever he pairs with

Her explanation for proposing to you was that she doesn't think she'd be one of the players to fall into one of the T-T dance pairs.

Yes because I have a tendency to get SR when im town.

In what world

Also as far as I remember troll FB is town FB so FB is town.

The fuck is this btw

Possible scum interaction

Looks just as aggressive if not more to me

@DVa what do you think of this

Kokichi was “aggressive” in BoR too. I’m null reading him atm.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It's pretty clear that he agreed with the "Let's shut up and play" part of the post, not necessarily the strategy parts. I hope this alone is not why you're scumreading him.

Is that pretty clear?

Yes. Read his later posts. He clearly said this isn't a math problem, blah blah, just wants to have fun, etc etc.
Should I go find his quotes?

Also,

FoS

: DVa. She's a lot more chatty as town, and finds it difficult to emulate that as scum.
She has had not a *single* non-serious post this game, excepting 650, a (seemingly half-hearted) response to Firebringer asking her for vids/GIFs.
DVa, do you think my meta evaluation of you is fair?

Is that necessarily a meta thing though or could the difference in her play be possibly be a result of the different and complex mechanics in this game?

But you’re right about her being more serious than usual in this game.

Have you played with scum!DVa before and is “seriousness” a part of her scum meta?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Being aggressive doesn’t make you town. Ever played with scum!Thor?

Did I townread someone for aggression?
Gladiating without town consensus is anti-town, not just aggressive.
What are you asking me, exactly?

Are you townreading UT for opposing hurt tags? Anti-town play more often than not=scum play.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@DVa:
If you're saying your chumminess is strictly as a scumhunting tool, I don't trust you on that.
If you're trying to imply that you'd discard all chumminess because of those factors in 744, then I definitely don't trust you on that.
You were pretty excited to join this game, and I doubt you'd approach it throughout with the dead-serious attitude you've been carrying the entire game.

@Nancy: I'll get to that, what do you think of the DVa meta thing?

Rn, I’d say even if true, a weak reason to scumread her, unless you have played numerous games with her and this pattern has been established.

This game is very different and mechanics heavy, so I dunno, if it’s necessarily meaningful. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew 39]

+1

@Auro, why are you hard defending him for this? He is advocating a blatantly anti-town plan.

I'm not hard-defending him.
What part of the 'blatantly anti-town plan' are you talking about? Can you go into details on this?
I clearly said I'll vote him if he gladiates without consensus in an early post.

His perspective of not overthinking mechanics, trying to get the sword and vigging people to have fun and enjoy the spirit of the game -- isn't scum-indicative to me.

Maria and Varsoon also wanted us to stop talking about mechanics but neither of them, were advocating deep sixing the hurt tags.

I also want to have “fun” and by fun, I mean not advocating for play, that helps scum.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don't think you'd get as pissed off at the game because of that

To be clear, you think that someone telling me TO DIE in a game I play for FUN would not make me less interested in being jokey?

I do know Varsoon, as scum he was very pleasant. As town he's obnoxious. So yeah, at the moment that makes me even more annoyed, because if he claims the sword I'm dealing with a game where the most obnoxious person is going to get the sword and never use it. So no, this game has not been as fun so far as I was anticipating. So now the game is disappointing and you're trying to push a scumcase on me because this game isn't as fun as I thought it'd be.

Keep pushing it Auro. Keep pushing it and see where it gets you.

I don’t think I’d exactly characterize Varsoon’s play early tunnelling in BoR, as “pleasant”. But yeah, he absolutely should not have said what he said to you. That wasn’t cool.

[Untrod Tripod]

so who wants to tell her

[Kokichi Oma]

Someone scumread me so I can go for the sword

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think a good day one duel would be Veridian v. Elsa, or Cakez v. UT or Auro v. Any of those names.

Make people take a stand.

Why Veridan and especially Cakes?

Cakes is one of my strongest townreads so far and I don’t see how Veridan is scummy?