Excalibur [Endgame]

[Auro]

because why spend two pages arguing that they didn't say it if it's true anyways?

She would know that she did say it somewhere: If she's able to act like it isn't true, it means that she either said it in a private medium which I can't quote, like chat, or an ongoing game - which I would not be able to refer to anyway.

Which part of this is silly?

[Auro]

Hmm... What to do to be relevant in discussion again...

Claim daycop, and bury a different fakeclaim within that claim.

[Something_Smart]

Cakez, hopefully I will be able to interact with people in real-time more. The game started at a bad time for me.

Although I don't really consider it necessary to have a plan like that. If I don't end up seeing anything on someone that I think I can get a reliable read on, then I'm right to just not attempt to read them and instead sort them through other means (interactions, mechanics, sheeping).

[Elsa Jay]

Day 1

Excalibur is

unclaimed.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2018-12-03 16:00:00)

This gets me thinking...

Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.

[Auro]

Although I don't really consider it necessary to have a plan like that. If I don't end up seeing anything on someone that I think I can get a reliable read on, then I'm right to just not attempt to read them and instead sort them through other means (interactions, mechanics, sheeping).

Would you agree that it's useful for the rest of town if you take stances on existing content and exchanges, if not necessarily overall reads on players?

[Auro]

Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.

Does this mean you'll be challenging me? What are your reads ATM?

[DVa]

The fact that you're trying to scumcase me based on a) something I never said, b) something I never would say, c) something that if I said something similar to and you were misrepresenting it, would require me to break site rules, and d) something that the rest of the thread cannot evaluate and thus is totally boring and purely speculative to them

*the centerpiece of your argument both does not exist, and your misrepresentation of whatever I did say cannot be addressed*

Your entire fucking argument is a mean-spirited farce based on the premise that me being unfunny is scum indicative based on something you *misremember me saying off site, or in an ongoing game*.

If you were town you would have conceded the point ages ago

[Elsa Jay]

Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.

Does this mean you'll be challenging me? What are your reads ATM?

Mfw I basically telling him I'm getting him to the second day but he still thinks I'd challenge him.

[Auro]

Congratulations, Auro. Imma give you something nice. A chance to day 2.

If this clock hits 5 days remaining exactly, imma make a challenge. That oughta make discussion happen better.

Does this mean you'll be challenging me? What are your reads ATM?

Mfw I basically telling him I'm getting him to the second day but he still thinks I'd challenge him.

"Chance" to go to D2 made me think you're twisting stuff, and you do twist stuff, don't ya

[Something_Smart]

Would you agree that it's useful for the rest of town if you take stances on existing content and exchanges, if not necessarily overall reads on players?

My stances aren't the best way to read me. And when I try to force opinions they look... forced. Shocker.

Assuming I'm playing naturally, I will be easier to read if I stick my neck out and commit to stuff, and it's likely the stuff will be > rand, so yes. Technically, it would be better.

But no matter what, it's best for me to do what I feel like I should do. (As it really should be for anyone, barring those who feel like lurking their asses off of screaming until their faces turn blue.)

[Elsa Jay]

Would it make it better if you know I'm not challenging you or DVa when the time comes?

[Auro]

@DVa: I think I get what you were talking about. Depending on the source of my memory, it could be a very bad-faith basis I was adopting, *regardless* of site rules.

If I were scum and did know, I definitely wouldn't resort to pushing you on that.

I apologize. I'll retract whatever I said, and re-evaluate later.

[Auro]

Would it make it better if you know I'm not challenging you or DVa when the time comes?

It'll be better if you take some stances and tell us some of your reads, because if I'm gonna have to choose between you or someone else, I want content from you that I should be able to evaluate.

[Elsa Jay]

Who needs content when you got personality.

[Auro]

Personality is not indicative.

[Elsa Jay]

Well against Lady it'll be enough.

[SirCakez]

because why spend two pages arguing that they didn't say it if it's true anyways?

She would know that she did say it somewhere: If she's able to act like it isn't true, it means that she either said it in a private medium which I can't quote, like chat, or an ongoing game - which I would not be able to refer to anyway.

Which part of this is silly?

I think it's just really semantics heavy and I think what d.va was trying to communicate on the subject (i;e they wouldn't say that and they deny it) was pretty obvious, as judging from 981.

Cakez, hopefully I will be able to interact with people in real-time more. The game started at a bad time for me.

Although I don't really consider it necessary to have a plan like that. If I don't end up seeing anything on someone that I think I can get a reliable read on, then I'm right to just not attempt to read them and instead sort them through other means (interactions, mechanics, sheeping).

I mean most of your ISO is just mechanics which is why I was trying to see if you would/could step it up for the crowd. altho this is a good levelheaded response.

[Gamma Emerald]

Except for her own admission that she finds it a lot harder as scum to be non-serious.

Except this is literally something I have never said

Erm what?
My eyes are kinda glazing over from this debate btw

[Gamma Emerald]

@Something_Smart:

Spoiler: Mechanics talk, again

For one, I feel that *for* the suicides to work as copping mechanisms, you need 100% town cohesion/control on who takes the sword. Even *one* town player not following this makes the sword claimed, which destroys its copping ability. I think it's apparent already that a few town are going to try and claim it no matter what, so unless we have a very convincing plan in the first place with this, we won't have town cohesion anyway.

We also have to remember that this kind of plan requires commitment over the days, in that people shouldn't go "Oh I'm better than the rest, I'll save the BP for myself" anyway. The extreme amounts of cohesion and commitment required makes this hard. Although if we can find a mathematically proven strategy to increase town win chances assuming they can follow a plan, it's worthwhile to try and coax town to co-operate.

That apart, the best strategy right now, to me is:
1. Propose and achieve consensus on following a gladiate policy of top hurt players claiming role, announcing intent to gladiate someone, and the other claiming role. Policy vote if not followed. (Achievable)
2. Everyone (except Merlin) tries to get the sword, so the scum doesn't hone in on who could have it. (Doesn't even matter if people don't try)
3. Merlin remains quiet unless pushed to gladiate or about to be gladiated by someone, or Arthur is. Likewise for Swordholder.
4. Hypoclaim on D2 on Arthur. (Achievable)
5. Merlin and Swordholder out on the day before LyLo. If CC'd, lynch to check. If not, great.

One question is: Is an Arthur hypoclaim more useful in D1, considering the 1/13 chance Merlin gets NK'd? (3/13 if he's pushed to a gladiate and outs himself)

What do you think of this?

You are right; if anyone takes the sword with intent to be BP, it disrupts the "use sword as a cop" plan. I think the only person who expressed interest in doing so is LLD, and she seems like she'd probably agree not to do it if it interfered with the plan.

I think this plan can be improved by letting everyone pick whether they go for the sword; probably not everyone will want to be BP and confirmable, if they're either likely to be townread or unlikely to be killed.

I also think it might be improved by introducing some more uncertainty into Merlin/Arthur. Obviously we need to strike a balance between making sure town knows what to do if Merlin dies versus not letting scum figure out who Merlin is too easily. I'm considering if it might be better to hypoclaim two potential Arthurs. That I think would fit better with a plan of using the sword as a cop, but it's still a possibility.

Mild town points for mirror tell

[Auro]

@Sircakez: I'm dropping all content wrt the meta push I've had with DVa, and I don't want to talk about that further.

[Auro]

Well against Lady it'll be enough.

If Elsa is serious about challenging in 17 hours, and I don't think it's improbable that he's joking about it, we need to consolidate and collect hurts from everyone.

[Elsa Jay]

Yeah you do that while I go to sleep. I'll be sure to read that as well.

Serious talk, for all future days, we gotta get the gladiates before a 5 day deadline, so work on that, team. A No Lynch isnt preferable and giving yourselves only like 1 - 3 days doesn't let you weigh your options enough.

[Firebringer]

theres two list mods in this game now. and i think thats too many.
they should duel each other.

[Gamma Emerald]

HURT: UT
Wanted to talk about this during catch-up but I’m not focused enough to get through rn so I’ll just do this now
The post by Dunnstral I quoted saying I had a good idea of someone who could be scum, I was referring to UT. In BoR, FakeGod made a comment post-game about how he meant for town to use the desperadoes optimally when doing balance. So for UT to argue against that concept is a massive scum sign.

[Firebringer]

i think UT has by far the most hurts.