Excalibur [Endgame]

[Something_Smart]

If LLD's scum here, she knows she's a dead woman. I can see her wanting to go out having as much control over the gamestate as she can, I can see her wanting to focus her efforts into eliminating Maria whom she probably sees as more threatening than Jay, and I can see her expecting to do better against someone whom she can potentially emotionally unbalance. So yeah, it's definitely plausible.

So your saying she couldnt emotionally unbalance me? I know that wasnt the focus, but it's just something I want to know.

Honestly if she had let me battle her, she saw how many people (yourself included) would have voted me, she definitely had a decent chance of winning. So your saying that she, as scum, would go for the even harder push on Maria? That Seems less optimal as scum.

Yeah, I don't think she'd be able to emotionally unbalance you. You clearly don't know her well and you don't seem like that emotional of a player in general.

And I don't know that she necessarily would have made that move as scum, but I can at least see reasons why she would. Maybe she judged differently from us that she would have lost the duel against you, or she misjudged what the response to dueling Maria would be.

[Something_Smart]

VOTE: LLD

Seems like this solves itself, then.

Are you willing to refrain from grabbing the sword if this flips scum?

[Something_Smart]

Wait are we doing the “one person takes the sword” thing again?

My idea was to have Maria take it on an LLD scumflip, and let people do whatever they feel like on an LLD townflip.

I did forget that Maria doesn't like being IC (she told me this when I made her IC in XP Mafia ) but I think she'd be a good pick for it here in the LLD-scum scenario since LLD specifically tried to get her out of the way.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: LLD

Seems like this solves itself, then.

Are you willing to refrain from grabbing the sword if this flips scum?

Yes.
I was largely being adamant about grabbing the sword in order to lull scum into a false sense of security.
I also was doing it so that I could keep Dva from talking about using Excalibur as a binary cop in gladiates because I did not want scum to realize this would be the case and was hoping scum would gladiate D1 or get gladiated.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: LLD

Seems like this solves itself, then.

Are you willing to refrain from grabbing the sword if this flips scum?

Yes.
I was largely being adamant about grabbing the sword in order to lull scum into a false sense of security.
I also was doing it so that I could keep Dva from talking about using Excalibur as a binary cop in gladiates because I did not want scum to realize this would be the case and was hoping scum would gladiate D1 or get gladiated.

Oh, you wrote 'flips scum'.
Nah, if LLD flips scum then I'm still going for the sword.
If LLD flips town, I'm not because Maria needs to get it.

[Varsoon]

Though I suppose I could also acquiesce to Maria getting it anyway just so that we can be sure this isn't a bus but I don't see scum bussing in this setup, like, fucking ever.

[Something_Smart]

I only really want Maria to get it if LLD is scum, because it means that scum wanted Maria out of the way for a reason. And I do think there's a decent chance of a bus... people bus in situations where it seems dumb, precisely because it seems so dumb nobody would expect it, and clearly LLD thought she was going down anyway.

[SirCakez]

Also @gamma
Do you actually SR Maria or is it just a fuck you to Dunn?

It’s closer to a fuck you vote but I do feel like his lead-in to the LLD vote was shady

But what about Maria??

[Nancy Drew 39]

I only really want Maria to get it if LLD is scum, because it means that scum wanted Maria out of the way for a reason. And I do think there's a decent chance of a bus... people bus in situations where it seems dumb, precisely because it seems so dumb nobody would expect it, and clearly LLD thought she was going down anyway.

So, you’re thinking that LLD is bussing Maria for towncred, hoping someone other than her claims the sword?

[Something_Smart]

I only really want Maria to get it if LLD is scum, because it means that scum wanted Maria out of the way for a reason. And I do think there's a decent chance of a bus... people bus in situations where it seems dumb, precisely because it seems so dumb nobody would expect it, and clearly LLD thought she was going down anyway.

So, you’re thinking that LLD is bussing Maria for towncred, hoping someone other than her claims the sword?

Well, yeah. At the time of LLD's challenge, it looked extremely unlikely that we'd be able to orchestrate a plan where a single person claims the sword, probably based in large part due to Varsoon's bamboozle. I don't think scum-LLD would have been expecting scum-Maria to be forced to claim the sword after just winning a gladiate against flipped scum.

[Kokichi Oma]

[ v]LLD [/v]

[Kokichi Oma]

VOTE: LLD

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 1.1

Lady Lambdadelta [6] - MariaR, SirCakez, DVa, Dunnstral, Varsoon, Kokichi Oma
MariaR [3] - Lady Lambdadelta, Firebringer, Gamma Emerald

Not Voting [8]

- Nancy Drew 39, Auro, Frozen Angel, Untrod Tripod, Something_Smart, VeridianCleric, Ariane, Elsa Jay

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2018-12-03 16:00:00)

[Auro]

I disagree, I think LLD was guaranteed to lose pretty much any matchup. This Maria move reads like a desperate gambit to induce this kind of WIFOM (I;e why would she do that as scum???) And her read progression on Elsa makes little sense.

I think LLD's ate and random massive burst of activity when Elsa was going to glad her seem pretty transparently scum

Basically this, coupled with misgivings about how the slot's handled reads and the gladiate in general.
I also felt like LLD was trying to be all "I WILL TAKE EXCALIBUR"-vocal to try to town-signal hard but when UT and I did the same, it lessened LLD's chances of being townread for it, and now they're going with a Gladiate under the notion, perhaps, that UT and I will go for the sword even now instead of leaving it up for LLD to pull it.

Makes sense, thanks. I was feeling she was getting scumread for gladiating Maria, but the reasons are independent of that.

VOTE: LLD

[MariaR]

I only really want Maria to get it if LLD is scum, because it means that scum wanted Maria out of the way for a reason. And I do think there's a decent chance of a bus... people bus in situations where it seems dumb, precisely because it seems so dumb nobody would expect it, and clearly LLD thought she was going down anyway.

So, you’re thinking that LLD is bussing Maria for towncred, hoping someone other than her claims the sword?

Well, yeah. At the time of LLD's challenge, it looked extremely unlikely that we'd be able to orchestrate a plan where a single person claims the sword, probably based in large part due to Varsoon's bamboozle. I don't think scum-LLD would have been expecting scum-Maria to be forced to claim the sword after just winning a gladiate against flipped scum.

This is prob scum.

[MariaR]

The logic of me and LLD bussing each other is bad because a bus should be done to get towncred. When you have people like me and LLD us bussing each other wouldn't get any credit because people know to look for that. It's really bad logic to use and LLD/S_S are using that here

[Firebringer]

I can't believe people are buying LLD's desperation gladiate and are actually considering voting Maria.
@auro
@fire
Why?
Also @elsa wtf are you in about?

i don't really buy the gladiate as anything than LLD being LLD. it wasn't very alignment indicative imo.

i guess it could be seen as scummy.
maybe kind of similar to the ball dance where she went all ANYONE PARTNER WITH ME!

[Firebringer]

i can kind of buy that LLD wanted people to examine Maria with more scrutiny but the idea she did it because of strong scumread on maria is just meh to me.

[MariaR]

I think LLD picked me in the hope people would....not fear but paranoia lynch me because "oh my god maria is a great scumplayer"

[Firebringer]

its posts like that irk me but also don't really make me think ur scum.

[Firebringer]

i think i unconvinced myself on u being scum maria.
aflkdjlkfajl

[Firebringer]

i hate u

[Nancy Drew 39]

Why are you people so convinced you can convince two scum to gladiate each other?

It will never happen. Assume you will always have one town in a Gladiate and move from there.

Oh boy am I gonna have to fight this obv as hell fake ate. It's like LLD is sitting behind her comp going. "what best fits here to get people to vote with me given I have no good arguments to use vs maria"
pedit: But I don't have an album of gifs for Riza yet

Here's a good argument.

I could have gladiated UT.

Or Cakez.

Or even Elsa.

And had a decent chance at living based on the argument of "I'm useful and polarizing, keep me alive to see the sword for one day then kill me if I don't get it".

I had a lot of targets that let me live.

Why do I surprise gladiate you as scum? If my goal is to survive?

Cause the only duel you had a chance vs was UT and even that you might've lost. When you're in such a shitty spot you have to make the risky play. Guess thats me~

This is trash tier logic for someone who claims to know me well, just so everyone is aware.

I've been in so many scum games where it's looked like I've been guaranteed to die, and I've wormed my way out of way worse spots.

And yet Maria thinks I wouldn't take the high % play and would go for something not just risky but severely unlikely to work and stupid because it would make you look more town?

Infact, everyone reading along listen well

THE ONLY TIME SCUM!LLD DUELS MARIA HERE IS IF MARIA IS ALSO SCUM. YALL KNOW I LOVE TO BUS, SO I'M BUSSING HERE. LET'S FUCKING GO CHOO CHOO

[MariaR]

i hate u

[Nancy Drew 39]

LL coming out hot with the reads.
What makes Nancy and UT town?
Why is mechanical talk scummy in an open setup?
If I was scum and you asked me to bus-gladiate, I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Throwing out a thought:
If scum claims Excalibur, they die immediately.
Town can vote on someone to claim Excalibur for the day. ONLY that person claims at night. If they're scum it remains unclaimed, lynch next day. If there's a claim treat them like an IC the next day.

Kill resolves before claim. Yes, we'd effectively gate the scum kill but we'd also render the setup as 13-4 mountainous.
But I think you're right in that we could effectively use the sword claiming as a one-shot cop, but, again, that renders the bulletproof aspect of it kind of useless.

@MOD: If Merlin dies and flips, does Arthur's identity get revealed with the flip?
Can Merlin claim Excalibur?

Tone on both. It's what I expect from them.

It's not that we can't talk mechanics. Mechanics is NAI. It's that talking mechanics and using them to smother other interactions that generate reads + create "content" for scummy players is scumsided. Explained in a prior post, happy to explain again.

Crossbus Gladiates are inherently bad for scum due to the White Flag rule. If one scum remains, they concede. Bussing is far more likely to create a single scum surviving scenario, and eventually scum need to leave associatives, which means bussing is bad, especially day 1.

LLD has never played with me other than in Dance.