Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]

[volxen]

What I'm saying is that the conclusion "Volxen hasn't made tons of posts = Volxen is scum" is overly simplistic, and I have a hard time believing that is coming from a townie who really wants to solve the game. For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

Either he is scum, or he has some misguided preconceived notion of what town!Volxen looks like and thinks I'm scum because I'm not living up to that expectation. Considering he has never played with town!me in any of my completed town games, him posting as if he is some sort of expert on my town meta is fairly suspect.

Point taken.

Still,

Do you find your posts here less townier than the usual?

Also, do you think that you would be doing something different here as scum?

@Nibbui, I'm not sure what you want me to say here. I do frequently get misread as scum as town, especially on day 1. This has happened to me in multiple of my town games, including Newbie 1888, Newbie 1889, and Newbie 1893. In the latter two games, I was a town power role and forced to roleclaim on day 1 to avoid getting mislynched. And again, BlackJacks has clearly looked at at least some of those games, but it's like he's selectively pointing out things that he thinks will help him to present a case for scum!Volxen rather than taking a more holistic approach to my meta.

Ok that was good info but not really the info I asked (it was still good info).

Let's hyphotetically assume you're town. What would you do different as scum here? What do you think are some notable differences between your scum and town meta?

I'm not really sure how to answer that question, as I am town here and I am approaching this game from a townie perspective. I'm not scum, so I haven't thought about what I would be doing in this game if I were scum.

Other than "try to get people mislynched to meet my win condition", what do you really want me to say here regarding what I would do differently if I were scum rather than town?

I only have one completed scum game (Watcher Wanted), which I played when I was basically brand new to the site, and I got lynched on the first day of that game. So I'm not even sure that I have a definitive "scum meta".

[Aster]

I would make another checklist citing all the AtE's RadiantCowbell has committed so far, but I'd end up just quoting page 27–28. >_>

Let me reintroduce perspective in the case that's going on. To the extent I can skim from RadiantCowbell's ISO, I found only two posts that state reasons for lynching Blackjacks, which I shall address now.

---

ruru in our last game started talking on d1 about how it was autolose if she left scum me alive and seriously advocated policy lynching me day one.
this game she's avoided me entirely, has made zero decent content posts, and is shit pushing town.

Which, as pinturicchio explained, may as well be because Blackjacks learned that attacking you head-on based merely on other games wasn't the best approach? (On a side note, I haven't found the game you're referring to. Link?)

1) she would see it as an imperative to play disruption on me if she were town
2) she has consistently been a power player in her town games and has done little here
3) i think you guys underestimate just how scummy it is that she decided volxen was scum before he posted and stuck with the read after

4) and most importantly she just

feels

scum. and i thought she was obvtown in the game i played with her and i immediately locktowned her both times i spectated town her. she's not hard to read.

1. Already addressed.
   
2. As much as I'd love to lynch all lurkers, lurking most unfortunately isn't alignment indicative. Your statement tells us "her current meta does not match her town meta", which is something different from "her current meta matches her scum meta". Would you happen to know scumgame of hers where she's as lurky as she's here? Unless her meta shifted to her scum meta, I think "meta has changed" by itself is a really shaky argument.
   
3. She voted Volxen for the Ellitell. Volxen's post did nothing to address her Ellitell.

That leaves (4) as the most important reason. Unfortunately I lack the sense of "feel" that you do, and your "feel" is not really transmitted well through your posts. I understand that you may end up obsessed over Blackjacks using only a feel read, but unless you give some quantifiable reasons, you'll be the only one. (?)

Ruru has a scummy as ass iso completely devoid of any town motivated posts it's really not a complicated read.

✗ Statement says nothing.

[Nibbui]

I mean, it's not that much of a hard question usually to answer what you would probably be doing as scum but I get your point.

How you felt though when you rolled scum for the first time? What was your experience there and did you learn something about playing as scum?

[volxen]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

[Nibbui]

That leaves (4) as the most important reason. Unfortunately I lack the sense of "feel" that you do, and your "feel" is not really transmitted well through your posts. I understand that you may end up obsessed over Blackjacks using only a feel read,

but unless you give some quantifiable reasons, you'll be the only one.

(?)

I mean, he already said his reasons, it just happens that we're not as convinced as him of the BJ's case. At least for me.

I still understand where he is coming from though, Ruru has been weird here. What is your current taken on Blackjack though? You said before that they were somewhat lurkers and I get that but they have been posting a bit more now.

Also, what is your taken on Volxen and RC's town read on him?

[Nibbui]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

What is your experience with RC?

How confident you're that you can read RC intentions as scum?

[volxen]

I mean, it's not that much of a hard question usually to answer what you would probably be doing as scum but I get your point.

How you felt though when you rolled scum for the first time? What was your experience there and did you learn something about playing as scum?

I probably didn't get the "full experience" of playing scum in Watcher Wanted, because there was no scum day chat and I was lynched on day 1 so I never got to communicate with my scumbuddies. I learned that, at least for me, playing scum is a lot harder than playing town because instead of trying to genuinely gamesolve, you are faking/fabricating everything to try and get townies mislynched to meet your win condition. The former (gamesolving) comes naturally to me and the latter (faking/fabricating) doesn't.

[volxen]

By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?

It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?

Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.

What is your experience with RC?

How confident you're that you can read RC intentions as scum?

I think RC has a reputation as being a hard to read player in general, so I'm not going to claim to know what his agenda would be as scum. My only firsthand experience with him was in Newbie 1888, where I was town and he was scum. So far I am inclined to believe that he is town in this game.

[volxen]

Do you believe that Blackjacks is town @Nibbui?

[Nibbui]

Do you believe that Blackjacks is town @Nibbui?

not really, far from that and I already said that

I was even the one to question Ruru on their meta and all, I even questioned her meta to Pintu way before Radiant If I remember right.

I'm just not really that convinced that this can't be town!Blackjacks. I'm not strong on that slot.

[THE MEME MEN]

Will need to catch up today.

-LH

[pinturicchio]

I like volxen's posting right now. I'm now happier with my vote on RC. Include TMI to everything I said before about him.

[Blackjacks]

For instance, you are at least trying to engage with me, whereas BlackJacks has multiple posts calling for my lynch.

except we've tried to engage you multiple times and you've ignored us. why?

-r

I was pretty obviously responding to the statement that you were not ellitelling. This isn’t even the only reason I’m scumreading you for anymore

What thoughts on the game do you have?

And for now, I have scumleans on Blackjack and Ceejay because both of them seem eager to scumpaint me merely based on how frequently I am posting in this game.

do you think this

isn't

scum-indicative for you?

[Blackjacks]

If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

can you think about this a bit more deeply and then answer it?

[northsidegal]

Searching for a replacement for THE MEME MEN.

[Clemency]

o

[Nibbui]

Clemency I don't want to be rude but can you do something?

I'm starting to think that lynching you isn't a bad idea at all

[Blackjacks]

Searching for a replacement for THE MEME MEN.

was this a force replace?

[Clemency]

i can try to do something yeah i guess

[Clemency]

i'm sort of low energy rn in general, i was wondering how far i could get away with not trying

[northsidegal]

Searching for a replacement for THE MEME MEN.

was this a force replace?

No.

[Keyser Söze]

Reading Volxen’s posts from the last couple pages, they are different here compared to the (small but fresh) scum meta I know from them:-
What is key to note is the composure and confidence of Volxen shown here.
The question is if they have developed as a player (basically their town game or simply improved their scum game)

[Keyser Söze]

Can someone bulletpoint town-Volxen or scum-Volxen.

[Keyser Söze]

In terms of their recent meta

[Gamma Emerald]

....
-_-