Open 741: Red Flag [Endgame]


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Post Post #750 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:00 am

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 730, Nibbui wrote:
In post 728, volxen wrote:
In post 724, Nibbui wrote:
In post 722, volxen wrote:By the way @Nibbui, RC and Ceejay have both played with town!me before, whereas Orfhz and Ruru have not. RC seems to be strong townreading me, Ceejay is either nullreading me or townleaning me, and Ofrhz/Ruru are scumreading me. Does that affect your read of me at all?
It doesn't because I don't like how sly Ceejay has been sounding nor the kind of thought process RC is showing. It's not necessarily a scum read but yeah.

Also I got interested in something, do you think that Radiant hard town read on you is valid and reasonable? Or do you think that it's a early read but it's being beneficial to you right now (and it's hipothetically correct)?
Are you suggesting RC's townread on me might be TMI, i.e. he is scum and *knows* that I am town? Perhaps, but at the moment his townread of me seems genuine, because he is essentially going against the tide and defending me when it is not really the *popular* thing to be doing. Yes I have, as town, received false townreads from scum, but usually that happens when I have already established myself as strong town, and scum will townread me because it's an easy townread for them to justify. Clearly I haven't established myself as strong town in this game (at least not yet), so I don't see scum!RC's motivation in townreading me and defending me at this point in time. If I am town and RC is scum, what is his motivation in trying to get BlackJacks lynched instead of me?

RC is a townread for me at the moment.
What is your experience with RC?

How confident you're that you can read RC intentions as scum?
1) that question goes for you too
2) you've seen me hard read people for far less and been correct about it
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #751 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:46 pm

Post by Aster »

In post 729, Nibbui wrote:Also, what is your taken on Volxen and RC's town read on him?
This turned out to be a surprisingly intriguing question.

RadiantCowbells is townreading a post of Volxen that parrots stuff that has already been said. It is not something I would townread myself or call "townish". Notable is that Volxen is the only player RadiantCowbells has townread and stated his reasons for so far. Notable is that his townread happened
before
he started his case against Blackjacks. He had already RVS-voted Blackjacks earlier, but he only started his case against Blackjacks later.

It is remarkable that Volxen has been the only player so far who RadiantCowbells has graced with an explanation of their townread on them. More remarkable is how RadiantCowbells
later
proceeds to attack the player who leads the Bandwagon against Volxen for seemingly unrelated reasons. This resembles a
chainsaw defense
.

We have two events:
  1. RadiantCowbells states the reasons he townreads somebody for only one Player "A" who doesn't seem that townish to me;
  2. RadiantCowbells attacks only one Player "B" who is attacking only one other Player "C".
It would take a one in eleven coincidence for "Player A = Player C" if these events were independent. Note that one in eleven coincidences are not that infrequent since you only notice coincidences that actually happen and nobody would remark anything about this situation if A ≠ C, but it is still suggestive.

FoS: RadiantCowbells, Volxen
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Post Post #752 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by Aster »

In post 729, Nibbui wrote:What is your current taken on Blackjack though? You said before that they were somewhat lurkers and I get that but they have been posting a bit more now.
I'm still feeling neutral about Blackjacks aside from the part that I suspect scum may be pushing against them.

Blackjacks' greatest contribution so far has been attacking Volxen based on "Ellitell" right now, which seems to be: (1) Volxen is inactive, (2) Volxen is active in other games, (3) Ellitell has indicated scum!Volxen before. The case does make sense: if we observe something that happens when Volxen is scum and does not happen when Volxen is town, then Volxen is likely scum. I haven't personally verified whether the premises hold though.

What is remarkable is how Blackjacks themselves seemed to be uncharacterally inactive in this game while pushing somebody else for inactivity plus some other stuff. Blackjacks isn't inactive in the Ellitell way that Volxen is, but it makes me wonder: would scum try to push a lynch on somebody based on inactivity when inactive themselves? If they are lying low, wouldn't they rather try to distract from inactivity tells?

On the other hand, it could make sense that pushing others on inactivity tells requires little explanation and is therefore a good way to avoid having to say much. I haven't sorted Blackjacks themself without associations yet.
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Post Post #753 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:13 pm

Post by Firebringer »

Ur fos is really bad disaster
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"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #754 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Her FoS is pretty good, I came to the same conclusion. I believe Volxen is town tho, but the chainsaw defense is the same point I made before (I couldn't remember the name of it, but I explained)
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Post Post #755 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Oh wait that doesn't make sense
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Post Post #756 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:16 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Chainsaw defense is when you defend a partner right? I don't agree with that then :lol: but it's a good and fair point, very close to what I believe
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Post Post #757 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:17 pm

Post by Firebringer »

ur both wrong.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #758 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Enlighten us then
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Post Post #759 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by Firebringer »

ur correlating anti town behavior as scum behavior and i am telling u all of rc behavior so far indicate he is playing this as town from my 3+ years of knowing him.

and usually i am not confident in my reads on him and right now i am 99% sure he is town.
Show
"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #760 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

notably people calling me out for tmi reads is one of the single strongest indicators in a game that i am town because as scum i am very careful about having tons of supporting evidence for my reads
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #761 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:26 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
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Post Post #762 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

In post 761, pinturicchio wrote:I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
what you're essentially saying is that i wasn't good enough to have townread him off of his first post without being tmi scum
2019 stats: Town WR 76.7%, overall WR 81.667%, 1 scum defeat involving a major mod error in lylo vs 8 scum wins.
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Post Post #763 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:29 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Don't talk to me
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Post Post #764 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:31 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 761, pinturicchio wrote:I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
i don't even understand ur point of ur read then
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #765 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:56 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 764, Firebringer wrote:
In post 761, pinturicchio wrote:I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
i don't even understand ur point of ur read then
As scum, I protected a mislynchable town player in order to get a win win situation: if he's mislynched, I get some credit because my read was good; if he's not mislynched, he will still be suspected the next day and will be good MyLo/LyLo material. The reason I had for townreading the mislynchable player? "Guys, I know this guy is town, I've seen it play like this before. Trust me".

I'm not falling for my own strat.
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Post Post #766 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:57 pm

Post by Blackjacks »

Gyus please stop making the game a Toxic Atmosphere it's disturbing Clemency who is trying to sleep.

-r
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Post Post #767 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:58 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

And by "my own strat" I don't mean that I created it or something, it's not that hard to do it. I mean that I know it's very possible and doable since I've done it, so from my PoV, scum!RC makes sense.
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Post Post #768 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:00 pm

Post by Blackjacks »

Are we a mislynchable town player sir?
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Post Post #769 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:06 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 768, Blackjacks wrote:Are we a mislynchable town player sir?
Are you implying I'm the one who is defending the mislynchable player here? :lol: no, I don't think you're mislynchable, not at all.

If I remember correctly, it was UglyDuck in a multiball game I played, and I relied on meta to townread him.
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Post Post #770 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by Firebringer »

In post 765, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 764, Firebringer wrote:
In post 761, pinturicchio wrote:I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
i don't even understand ur point of ur read then
As scum, I protected a mislynchable town player in order to get a win win situation: if he's mislynched, I get some credit because my read was good; if he's not mislynched, he will still be suspected the next day and will be good MyLo/LyLo material. The reason I had for townreading the mislynchable player? "Guys, I know this guy is town, I've seen it play like this before. Trust me".

I'm not falling for my own strat.
i think rc is known for not explaining reads, to say this is scum motivated or he isn't explaining reads because he is scum is like not knowing or playing with him. and I think this basis for reading him is very superficial and lacks usefulness.
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"You are the Joker of mafia players" - Oversoul
"last time I was scum with Firebringer
his first post in the scum PT was "yes I rolled scum!"
I decided to post "haha just don't post that in the main thread", but to get up to date on the main thread first.

His first post in the main thread was "yes I rolled scum!" -popsofctown
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Post Post #771 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by volxen »

In post 765, pinturicchio wrote:
In post 764, Firebringer wrote:
In post 761, pinturicchio wrote:I had him as null with all the anti town shit he did, but that changed with volxen towning it up
i don't even understand ur point of ur read then
As scum, I protected a mislynchable town player in order to get a win win situation: if he's mislynched, I get some credit because my read was good; if he's not mislynched, he will still be suspected the next day and will be good MyLo/LyLo material. The reason I had for townreading the mislynchable player? "Guys, I know this guy is town, I've seen it play like this before. Trust me".

I'm not falling for my own strat.
That's a fair point about it being a valid scum strategy, but why do you think that scenario is more likely than town!RC just genuinely townreading me? Just because he townread me too early on in the game?
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Post Post #772 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:38 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

mod, I'll be on V/LA until Thursday/Friday since I'm having cirgury tomorrow morning
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Post Post #773 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 772, pinturicchio wrote:
mod, I'll be on V/LA until Thursday/Friday since I'm having cirgury tomorrow morning
Noted.
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Post Post #774 (ISO) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:39 pm

Post by northsidegal »

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