Excalibur [Endgame]

[Varsoon]

Well exactly--they were against the mech-talk, so you doing it in spoiler tags appeases them while also sticking to something they don't like. It's both worlds.
But I don't think that's particularly alignment indicative, either way, though I have no basis for how you actually play as town.

I saw Mech talk as anti-town because it distanced us from the game at hand and because the best possible use of Excalibur was everyone going for it N1 and the best use of other roles is not talking about them at all until D2 at least.

[Auro]

But there's no *benefit* to mechanic talk, spoilered or not, to scum!Me, especially because mechanic talk clearly appeases no one. I don't think there's much more to say beyond that my motivation there was to prevent players from going "I didn't read cos mechanics", but okay.

On the other hand tho, this actually helped contribute to my townlean on you - since your reaction to me as opposed to S_S seemed pretty natural, and scum!You attacking players for mech talk would have probably not made that distinction.

What do you think of the Dunn|Maria exchange? Do you think that lunching a lurker slot is good, if everyone continues to lurk?

[Varsoon]

That's what I'm saying. It's stubborn and likely to not look great, which is WIFOM. Yes, it's some third-level play, so it won't make sense, but that's

the point

.
Especially because the goal of such play is to make town go "Well it doesn't *benefit* scum!Auro to keep talking mechanics, so I'd think he would've stopped by then..."

I wish no one would lurk but I am having a lot of personal trouble getting into game so eh

I think Dunn's probably just wrong about Maria. I think Maria is town. I hope Maria got the sword.
I don't think lynching Lurker slots is especially fruitful, especially given scum could just be the active players.
We should try to encourage those lurkers to be more of a part of the game, if possible.

[Auro]

Right. Said WIFOM benefit is pretty small as opposed to the risk of it, given this playerlist. There are much easier ways to appease people, so I'd argue that it's bad scumplay, WIFOM considered.

Hmm. What's troubling you WRT this game? Is it because of the lurker slots, like in our last game? I honestly don't know what could encourage lurkers to be a part of game, other than negative reinforcement that lurking would get them lunched.

[Varsoon]

Was it? Who's scumreading you right now?
The whole point of a gamble is that there's risks involved but a reward as well, Auro.

Yeah, I am heavily reminded of our last game, where I'm dubious of the actually active slots and there's a handful of lurker slots that I'm worried are ALL just town.

[Auro]

Welppp
Hypoclaim time.
Elsa Jay is Arthur.

still a bad idea

I asked why in 1521, and you didn't answer.
I repeat, what makes you think so?

nah he was pretty towny imo.

VOTE: Varsoon

No explanation for the Varsoon "vote".
You didn't even comment on Varsoon/Something_Smart in D1, most of your posts seemed pretty fluff to moi.

So who is scum

So who is gonna gladiate who

This is lazy play -- what happened to your Varsoon read?

FoS: Kokichi Oma

[Auro]

Was it? Who's scumreading you right now?
The whole point of a gamble is that there's risks involved but a reward as well, Auro.

Yeah, I am heavily reminded of our last game, where I'm dubious of the actually active slots and there's a handful of lurker slots that I'm worried are ALL just town.

I don't think "He'd not continue mechanic talk therefore he's town" contributed to the townreads to me, and I'd prolly be wary if THAT actually did to someone. My contention is that the reward is meh (a weak contributing factor to a potential townread to *few* players) at best, and I wouldn't have done that for WIFOM, at least, judging the risks.

Hmm, but at scale, and considering that a few slots seem to be active elsewhere (unlike our last game) -- I feel like lurking may be deliberate.

[Varsoon]

If the 'reward' is even less outwardly good, that's what makes it a better level-3 play for scum, because then they can go, "Why would I even do that as scum, the reward would be too low!"
It's all those WIFOMY games.
Once you figure out what level someone operates on, it's easy to cut past the BS and figure out if they're tricking you or being genuine.

Who do you believe to be deliberately lurking? How can that even be gauged? Is there a player who you think is scum in a cozy position who's good to lurk out right now?

[Auro]

I see that, but there's a difference between:
"Why are you scumreading me? Look at X, I'd not do that as scum!" and
"X in isolation should be treated NAI, because there's no benefit in scum!me doing X".
I'm saying the latter right now.

I think scum lurking has benefits:
- town!MariaR being scumread
- Gladiation mechanics meaning town would want to gladiate soon, within 2 days
- Other slots lurking, so easier to mix in

It's hard to pinpoint that one specific person is, I think we should just force engagement from everyone and see what happens.
Also, one Q: If there's a TvT gladiation, can their vote distributions be indicative?

[Varsoon]

Treating something NAI when it makes up a lot of posts still means you're NOT being scumread for it despite being active, which is what scum want.

[Auro]

X was referencing the spoilered posts -- I think there were only 2-3 of them?
In any case, I think I've tried to engage otherwise too to a good deal, saying that I'm active lurking would be unfair.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I dunno, I think you also can’t ignore how the mechanics are affecting play. Other than his initial freakouts at DVa and SS, nothing about his play has particularly pinged me. Why? Are you suspicious of him now?

No, the opposite -- his disengaged style seems to be town-indicative to me.
I've not read any meta, and I know that Varsoon's hard to read, but I have a hunch that scum!Varsoon might try to drive the game more, generally speaking. I think Varsoon's experienced enough to not let his play be affected by mechanics.

Yeah, I agree. I’m townreading him too.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@nancy because I'm trying to ferret out scumreads from people as an alternative to the ongoing "plan" battle and you're one of those people arguing

I like this though

I’m onboard with anything that makes the game more interesting. It’s just not particularly useful in my case.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Problem is his activity looks like that of scum with MariaR who realized that MariaR was gonna be suspected heavily and decided to hardbus

Nah, Dunn is town. I’m okay with Maria being gladiated. She keeps saying she “refuted” Dunn’s case but I don’t see it. I should probably reread it but I’m too lazy but I feel pretty confident Dunn is town here. I’m a pretty defent tone reader and his tone reads pure to me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yeah it does
During the D1 duel he was clearly on Maria’s side, now he just flips his read? Where’s the conviction?

Practically everyone was on Maria’s side, that’s how LLD got mislynched. Maria’s behaviour just prior to thread being locked.

And I remember LLD quoting some post of Dunn’s suspecting Maria, which LLD referenced, so it’s hardly coming out of the blue.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I prefer the winky face

The winky face looks more suspicious, like you’re hinting at something, where as the tonge one, clearly means, you intend the the exact opposite of whatever you’re meaning.

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's what I'm saying. It's stubborn and likely to not look great, which is WIFOM. Yes, it's some third-level play, so it won't make sense, but that's

the point

.
Especially because the goal of such play is to make town go "Well it doesn't *benefit* scum!Auro to keep talking mechanics, so I'd think he would've stopped by then..."

I wish no one would lurk but I am having a lot of personal trouble getting into game so eh

I think Dunn's probably just wrong about Maria. I think Maria is town. I hope Maria got the sword.
I don't think lynching Lurker slots is especially fruitful, especially given scum could just be the active players.
We should try to encourage those lurkers to be more of a part of the game, if possible.

Really? Okay, well, I didn’t like Penguin telling Dunn to gladiate him, so I thought that was really odd.

[SirCakez]

When you actually read my posts.

Nice deflection

No, it’s true. You aren’t accurately reading them. I already told you that I’m not doing anything different here, than like 98% of my games and I also told you, you can verify that. Yet, it seems to have gone completely over your head. God only knows why.

ok I also said I don't rely on meta very much
I went and ISOed two old town games of yours anyway since you keep bringing it up and in both (Forgotten Hourglass and BoR) you were more aggressive declaring scumreads then here.

Town reads and suspicions but hard scumreads in early game? Yeah, well it’s a lot easier to do that in those types of setups. My head really isn’t in this game and Penguinpower took away my last pleasure in it. :/

I have on both days mentioned players I have Fos on, I just didn’t label them scumreads, so I don’t know why that is that much of a big deal to you.

because I feel like you are kinda holding back on any serious pushes to stay out of conflict

Going back to reading what I missed from D1 because I’m kinda out of it rn

now this is my kind of useless fight

Ew? Why post this

was a joke mostly
the fight that was happening at that point was good for game progress tho

This game died FAST. Tbh we could use just a lynch on one of the lurky slots for information and b/c one of those is probably scum anyways. And then there's a chance for Excalibur to get used.

[Kokichi Oma]

How does a lurky slot give us info

[SirCakez]

a flip is a flip and we aren't losing anything activity wise

[Elsa Jay]

If a lurker lynch is what you want, and your positive town won't lynch you instead, just challenge a lurker then.

[Nancy Drew 39]

When you actually read my posts.

Nice deflection

No, it’s true. You aren’t accurately reading them. I already told you that I’m not doing anything different here, than like 98% of my games and I also told you, you can verify that. Yet, it seems to have gone completely over your head. God only knows why.

ok I also said I don't rely on meta very much
I went and ISOed two old town games of yours anyway since you keep bringing it up and in both (Forgotten Hourglass and BoR) you were more aggressive declaring scumreads then here.

Town reads and suspicions but hard scumreads in early game? Yeah, well it’s a lot easier to do that in those types of setups. My head really isn’t in this game and Penguinpower took away my last pleasure in it. :/

I have on both days mentioned players I have Fos on, I just didn’t label them scumreads, so I don’t know why that is that much of a big deal to you.

because I feel like you are kinda holding back on any serious pushes to stay out of conflict

Going back to reading what I missed from D1 because I’m kinda out of it rn

now this is my kind of useless fight

Ew? Why post this

was a joke mostly
the fight that was happening at that point was good for game progress tho

This game died FAST. Tbh we could use just a lynch on one of the lurky slots for information and b/c one of those is probably scum anyways. And then there's a chance for Excalibur to get used.

Well, I can keep telling I’m not and it’s up to you, whether or not you believe me. *shrug*

At this point, I’m hardly invested in this game any way.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If a lurker lynch is what you want, and your positive town won't lynch you instead, just challenge a lurker then.

It would be hillarious if someone gladiated FA slot.

[Elsa Jay]

If a lurker lynch is what you want, and your positive town won't lynch you instead, just challenge a lurker then.

It would be hillarious if someone gladiated FA slot.

10 dollars PayPal and I'll do it.

[Dunnstral]

HURT: Kokichi Oma