Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

[northsidegal]

VC 1.01

votes

[4] YyottaCat

:

mbaki 3, BrightEyedFish 8, Suka 10, Kmd4390 23

[2] mbaki

:

rb 5, YyottaCat 7

[2] rb

:

Creature 18, Vorkuta 20

[1] Creature

:

DrDolittle 14

[4] Not Voting

:

Nero Cain, Varsoon, Leodanny, OkaPoka

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

The Day 1 deadline is in

: (expired on 2018-12-21 12:00:59)

Mod Notes

:

[Leodanny]

Hi

[YyottaCat]

Wow is there seriously more than four scums in this game?

[Leodanny]

I hope not.

[Creature]

Cool

I'm already very confident Leodanny is town

[Kmd4390]

Cool

I'm already very confident Leodanny is town

I could see that.

[Leodanny]

Kaythanks, but why?

[OkaPoka]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, while playing and reading other games. On the subject of the whole RVS thing, why do we do RVS and is it really the best? I was wondering if we could find any alternatives to RVS because the whole thing is kinda well, random, and Day 1’s feel a bit too random in my taste.

So here’s my thought process behind the point of RVS. It’s not really supposed to be random, your supposed to vote people you know to sort of reaction test them or do an early wagon, something along those ideas to basically sort the awkward people from the smooth and suave. But playing a bunch of newbie games, where half the player list is unrecognizable and awkward no matter what, because they are newbies leads me to the belief that day 1 really is just a newbie/not_mafia genocide of sorts, not a good place to kill scum, you know what I mean? And voting people you are familiar with, it’s not really fair right? People should always shake up their meta a bit to find what’s optimal, at least I do it a lot because I’m still trying to find that successful style, and I doubt anyone has perfected their game. Voting your friends and not getting the right reaction is punishing them for trying to do better, or voting your friends and getting the right reaction can lead to bad townreads (because the point of scum is to look town!)

So then I was thinking, does RVS provide anything more? There exists the claim about interactions in RVS to find associatives and stuff, but I feel like we’ve evolved as site enough to understand that RVS is too jokey to be taken seriously, it's all wifom, people who claim they found the scum team in RVS are most likely full of themselves.

Considering all of these reasons for why RVS kinda sucks, I read the wiki and some articles on RVS, and they mostly pointed to the same ideas: RVS sucks but it’s alternatives are worse. Don’t do RQS blah blah blah.

But what makes RQS garbage? Looking at the wiki article, the disadvantages are that the questions suck, but is it really that hard to create some good questions rather than begin the game with lighthearted and low pressure playstyle? If we ask the right questions, maybe RQS won’t lead us to scum, but it’s a great way to philosophically start the game, get to know how each person plays and processes the game so we don’t genocide the unfamiliar. Maybe for people unfamiliar with the player list, it’ll help a lot, and it’ll establish some basic guidelines of how people process games so in the future of the game, town can come back to the beginning and look for inconsistencies and the scum override-al of normal town behavior relative to the person.

Anyways this post was a roundabout attempt of starting a better, “enlightened” RQS rather than going with the same old RVS. Let’s start a discussion on why RQS sucks, why we do RVS. But let’s get down to the meat of the reasons why, like the fundamental ideas of your beliefs. You’ve seen my thought process of RVS and RQS, so what’s your thought process?

Pedit: I know people don't like reading large blocs of text and skip to the end, but please just read this one.

[Varsoon]

I don't think RVS or RQS suck, I just think that people use RVS as an excuse to not have to be held accountable for their early play.
VOTE: OkaPoka

But why are you dropping a thick text block theorycrafting instead of addressing the fact we've got a wagon at L-3?

[Kmd4390]

Leodanny do you want my answer or creature's?

Oka, that's a discussion better left for MD. If you want RQS, start asking questions. Personally, my solution is usually to just vote the scummiest person even if they haven't done much yet. That's what I did here. Any thoughts on yyotta?

[OkaPoka]

I don't think RVS or RQS suck, I just think that people use RVS as an excuse to not have to be held accountable for their early play.
VOTE: OkaPoka

But why are you dropping a thick text block theorycrafting instead of addressing the fact we've got a wagon at L-3?

Do you think scum or town or both alignments do that? Is it a person thing or an alignment thing? Why do you think people act this way?

I don't feel like I need to address the wagon? It exists, great. But nothing has been said so far that makes me feel like I can make a judgement call on someone's alignment. L-3 isn't L-1.

[Leodanny]

I want both. Also, I think this giant block of text by Oka’s kinda weird, since it should probably go in discussion or the wiki(?).

[Leodanny]

Also, hi again Varsoon!

[OkaPoka]

If everyone is willing to answer my questions and a serious version of RQS, then we can establish some fundamental ideas of how people play to help us not lynch then unfamiliar and detect what is opportunism for them vs just trying to create pressure.

Maybe it should go to MD, but not everyone will answer the question(s), and the point is that we get the entire playerlist discussing something game-related and start the game off serious rather than joke-y

[mbaki]

I believe KMD is aligned with the town.

[mbaki]

OkaPoka, this game is off to a fine start and we are already past RVS. Save your justice crusade for another lobby.

[Varsoon]

I don't think RVS or RQS suck, I just think that people use RVS as an excuse to not have to be held accountable for their early play.
VOTE: OkaPoka

But why are you dropping a thick text block theorycrafting instead of addressing the fact we've got a wagon at L-3?

Do you think scum or town or both alignments do that? Is it a person thing or an alignment thing? Why do you think people act this way?

I don't feel like I need to address the wagon? It exists, great. But nothing has been said so far that makes me feel like I can make a judgement call on someone's alignment. L-3 isn't L-1.

I think both alignments do it and it's a site-meta thing.

I think that it's a nice bit for a thread on the General Mafia Discussion forums and really doesn't have much place here, given we're already out of RVS.
Please engage with the game at hand.

VOTE: YyottaCat
Alright now it's L-2.
What do you think of the wagon and the players voting it, OkaPoka?

[Creature]

The font is weird.

[Suka]

VOTE: OkaPoka

[Creature]

I’ve been thinking about this for a while now, while playing and reading other games. On the subject of the whole RVS thing, why do we do RVS and is it really the best? I was wondering if we could find any alternatives to RVS because the whole thing is kinda well, random, and Day 1’s feel a bit too random in my taste.

So here’s my thought process behind the point of RVS. It’s not really supposed to be random, your supposed to vote people you know to sort of reaction test them or do an early wagon, something along those ideas to basically sort the awkward people from the smooth and suave. But playing a bunch of newbie games, where half the player list is unrecognizable and awkward no matter what, because they are newbies leads me to the belief that day 1 really is just a newbie/not_mafia genocide of sorts, not a good place to kill scum, you know what I mean? And voting people you are familiar with, it’s not really fair right? People should always shake up their meta a bit to find what’s optimal, at least I do it a lot because I’m still trying to find that successful style, and I doubt anyone has perfected their game. Voting your friends and not getting the right reaction is punishing them for trying to do better, or voting your friends and getting the right reaction can lead to bad townreads (because the point of scum is to look town!)

So then I was thinking, does RVS provide anything more? There exists the claim about interactions in RVS to find associatives and stuff, but I feel like we’ve evolved as site enough to understand that RVS is too jokey to be taken seriously, it's all wifom, people who claim they found the scum team in RVS are most likely full of themselves.

Considering all of these reasons for why RVS kinda sucks, I read the wiki and some articles on RVS, and they mostly pointed to the same ideas: RVS sucks but it’s alternatives are worse. Don’t do RQS blah blah blah.

But what makes RQS garbage? Looking at the wiki article, the disadvantages are that the questions suck, but is it really that hard to create some good questions rather than begin the game with lighthearted and low pressure playstyle? If we ask the right questions, maybe RQS won’t lead us to scum, but it’s a great way to philosophically start the game, get to know how each person plays and processes the game so we don’t genocide the unfamiliar. Maybe for people unfamiliar with the player list, it’ll help a lot, and it’ll establish some basic guidelines of how people process games so in the future of the game, town can come back to the beginning and look for inconsistencies and the scum override-al of normal town behavior relative to the person.

Anyways this post was a roundabout attempt of starting a better, “enlightened” RQS rather than going with the same old RVS. Let’s start a discussion on why RQS sucks, why we do RVS. But let’s get down to the meat of the reasons why, like the fundamental ideas of your beliefs. You’ve seen my thought process of RVS and RQS, so what’s your thought process?

Pedit: I know people don't like reading large blocs of text and skip to the end, but please just read this one.

[Creature]

Kaythanks, but why?

Wow is there seriously more than four scums in this game?

I hope not.

I think you derped here.

[OkaPoka]

I don't think RVS or RQS suck, I just think that people use RVS as an excuse to not have to be held accountable for their early play.
VOTE: OkaPoka

But why are you dropping a thick text block theorycrafting instead of addressing the fact we've got a wagon at L-3?

Do you think scum or town or both alignments do that? Is it a person thing or an alignment thing? Why do you think people act this way?

I don't feel like I need to address the wagon? It exists, great. But nothing has been said so far that makes me feel like I can make a judgement call on someone's alignment. L-3 isn't L-1.

I think both alignments do it and it's a site-meta thing.

I think that it's a nice bit for a thread on the General Mafia Discussion forums and really doesn't have much place here, given we're already out of RVS.
Please engage with the game at hand.

VOTE: YyottaCat
Alright now it's L-2.
What do you think of the wagon and the players voting it, OkaPoka?

i think you l2ing yvotta to test me is cool, but ultimately meaningless

what is interesting is that suka moved off, though it wasn't explicitly stated i think there is the implication of her being worried of a yvotta fast hammer. but i want to hear actual words from her.

[Nero Cain]

Can we lynch VOTE: Suka now?

[Leodanny]

Kaythanks, but why?

Wow is there seriously more than four scums in this game?

I hope not.

I think you derped here.

What do you mean?

[northsidegal]

-