Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

[OkaPoka]

he's trying to say i know you are scum but he covers it with the fact its rvs and he is using the "wow" and "imo"

[mbaki]

still think nero is the second partner based off of crumbs

and this would line up with mbaki scum a lot actually

No, Nero Cain and I as a team would not kill rb, he townread both of us. I don't know why I feel like I'm talking to 5 year olds.

3 votes and already flailing.

Please stop talking to me. I do not like you nor respect your play, and honestly I think Suka is more likely to flip scum than you but for now I'd rather vote you because I can't stand to play with you.

[OkaPoka]

that way it doesn't look weird when he doesnt push u ever again

[mbaki]

he's trying to say i know you are scum but he covers it with the fact its rvs and he is using the "wow" and "imo"

He is using wow and imo site-wide as he lost a bet, you can do a little research and see that to be true (ongoing references are disallowed so I cannot provide links).

[mbaki]

that way it doesn't look weird when he doesnt push u ever again

It doesn't look weird because his push on me was RVS and RVS is not from actual reads.

[OkaPoka]

exactly my point?

its rvs so thats where he can crumb without it looking strange

[OkaPoka]

i cant find this bet

[OkaPoka]

but let's assume you are right

it doesn't make my scenario untrue

[OkaPoka]

@mbaki if ur town who is scum

[OkaPoka]

game is free win if we all are active btw

[mbaki]

exactly my point?

its rvs so thats where he can crumb without it looking strange

Okay, but here's my point.

Your explanations for why it was crumbs was

he's trying to say i know you are scum but he covers it with the fact its rvs and he is using the "wow" and "imo"

and

that way it doesn't look weird when he doesnt push u ever again

Your first statement disproves the second one, as it wouldn't look weird to not push an rvs push again as it is not a real push. If you look at any RVS vote I doubt more than random amounts would continue pushing them later on.

"wow" and "imo" have been used site-wide by him, since before this game started, because he lost a bet. This is not relevant and easily verifiable. If you can't find the bet, go look at his other games that had posting at the same time and this one and he used this there too.

You're using your preconceived notions to find the conclusion that works for you, otherwise known around here as "confbias". Yes, if I am scum, rb's posts could be seen as crumbs because he outright calls me scum and then doesn't push me. However, if I am town (which I am), then they aren't crumbs and its simply a random RVS vote, and rb simply didn't push me because I didn't look like an easy push compared to the multitude of awful lynchbait slots in this playerlist (see: Vorkuta, Fish, YYotta, DDL). You're assuming he crumbed, which he may not have which is what led to his being killed, and if he did then these are not them.

To be

100% honest

I can see how those look like crumbs, and if I was scum looking for a traitor I probably would agree with you. Unfortunately, I'm not scum, which means they aren't crumbs. You're falling down the very common path of fucking up after a traitor death. Like, I legitimately see how those could be seen as crumbs, but they aren't.

Additionally. If I'm scum in your mind, I need to have a partner other than Nero Cain, because rb pretty clearly townread me and Nero Cain. A scum team would not kill a low impact player townreading both of them, regardless of any "wifom". I don't think this is disputable. Though, this isn't really relevant because I don't think Nero Cain is scum.

Now, I'm going to do this.

VOTE: Suka

I believe this is more likely to flip scum than Fish. I do not believe Vorkuta is scum any longer. I still believe Nero Cain is most likely town as of now. Fish could easily be scum, but I think he fits into the terrible town category. Honestly, I kind of suspect you, but I'm going to write that off for now as I townread you before end of day yesterday and I'll trust past mbaki.

To be quite honest I know I should be nicer to fish, but everything he posts agitates the hell out of me and I really hate playing with newbies which is why I avoid the queue and often this site. I'm going to try to just avoid him and be friendly in the inevitable interactions we have. His confidence and arrogance around me actually do ring mildly townie, though I'll look like a doofus if I'm wrong here. I am going to make an active effort to just brush him off, including how I know he's going to reply to this post with "AtE" and keep tunneling me.

As for why Suka is more likely to flip scum? It is predicated off of Vorkuta being town. I believe Suka is a Mathblade alt, but that isn't overly important from my read. Her confidence for Vorkuta being town seems unfounded. The comments about "read fluidity" are a common way I have seen scum pocket townreads, as it compliments their competence as a player (pockety) while also calling them town (pockety, and yes I'm aware that's a part of play as a whole). rb's progression on Suka is odd (#87 and #90 followed by him calling Suka a townread later on kind of being what you're crumb reading rb's stuff at me as). Also, #417 kind of seems eye-rolly at a partner, though I may be speculating too much there.


I would like to see Nero Cain's take when he comes in the thread.

Right now, I would say town reads are Vorkuta, OkaPoka (redacted why), Nero Cain, Creature (if he remains active).

[mbaki]

Oh, and DrDolittle had a pretty townie end of day.

[Varsoon]

I believe that means Vorkuta is town?

i think this means anyone rb suspected = town?

i think then this game can be on lock

VOTE: vorkuta

unless we can get a vig confirmation

Why ya'll actin like you don't know how traitor works.

@MOD: Can you explain how the role you just flipped works? kthx

Obv that scum killed RB and didn't realize he was their traitor
If RB didn't know his team's identities, then alignment conclusions can't really be drawn.
Even if he did, I don't think it matters all that much.

[mbaki]

I believe normal guidelines say traitor should know their teammates, but not vice-versa. The role is pretty nonsensical if they don't.

[Varsoon]

I've seen it iterated where Traitor doesn't know team and team knows there is a traitor but not who.

[mbaki]

In a normal game, I doubt it. Otherwise, perhaps. Regardless, while we wait for the mod to post the full role pm, what are your thoughts aside from mechanics?

[northsidegal]

@MOD: Can you explain how the role you just flipped works? kthx

As per normal guidelines:
A traitor is aware of the identities of the members of the scumteam.
The scumteam is aware of the existence of a traitor, but not his/her identity.
A traitor is endgamed if he/she is the last surviving Mafia.

rb was also a Normal Rolecop.

[Varsoon]

Yeah, I think mods not posting full role PMs and just relying on shorthand is confusing.
Especially since we don't have an agreed-upon nomenclature.
So when I see 'traitor' I just have to try to infer what that means and hope the mod's iteration is the same as the wiki's.

My thoughts are the same as ever. DDO's probably scum. Didn't BEF claim a guilty on you? What happened with that?

P-EDIT:

What's a Normal Rolecop?

[mbaki]

He didn't claim a guilty, he postured by saying "guilty" but then followed it up with quoting "crumbs" from rb.

I don't see why DDO is scum. Anything else or anything to convince me otherwise?

[mbaki]

DDL
brighteyedfish
leodanny
vorkuta

Actually, thinking more about it, I have to go back on what I said. Somebody rb was pushing has to be scum, because he was the most threatening townie (

lol

) and just being widely townread isn't enough. His top pushes were these 4 I think, and at least 1 has to be scum. Hrm.

VOTE: Leodanny

[northsidegal]

Yeah, I think mods not posting full role PMs and just relying on shorthand is confusing.
Especially since we don't have an agreed-upon nomenclature.
So when I see 'traitor' I just have to try to infer what that means and hope the mod's iteration is the same as the wiki's.

My thoughts are the same as ever. DDO's probably scum. Didn't BEF claim a guilty on you? What happened with that?

P-EDIT:

What's a Normal Rolecop?

Every role in this game is as per normal guidelines.

Rolecop

[mbaki]

[3] mbaki : YyottaCat 530, BrightEyedFish 728, Vorkuta 442

I really don't think this wagon is pure, either. I really need to organize myself. Maybe I'm back to sussing Vorkuta with the logic that rb was absent and never actually attempted to get them lynched, perhaps with Suka chainsaw defending.

Jesus, I suspect everyone. I need people to post more. Particularly Kmd, Vorkuta, and really Leodanny needs to post anything at all.

[OkaPoka]

okay maybe, just maybe he didn't crumb anything at all

but i doubt that

he's traitor. he has to crumb himself otherwise he isn't playing fully to his wincon. setups are designed with this idea/mechanic in mind, and are balanced around it.

rb isn't a newb. its impossible he doesn't know this.

like sure it's possible that he didn't crumb, but that is almost 0% chance. if he didn't crumb to you, he had to had crumb to someone else, it just wasn't picked up on. it's the most reasonable explanation and we should be playing reasonably.

I really don't see how I'm conf biasing scumreading you. I looked at his iso, and the most evident crumb is directed towards you. conf-biasing is when im scumreading you and then i twist stuff to match that. but im not.

[mbaki]

Ok. So talk about your reads excluding this while keeping your vote on me. Doing nothing like you did yesterday is not acceptable.

[OkaPoka]

What?