micro 840: mystery box of silver (this is over)

[Nibbui]

by the way can I get like, Innocent-Child level now?

schadd should just come clean and mod confirm me as town tbh

you can only dream of me doing intense meta as scum, principally when I was already town read anyway.

treat me as treestump I guess

[Pink Ball]

Nibbui, you're voting for podoboq

[Nibbui]

it's because I'm trying to mislynch town lol

stop sayin' that I shouldn't play for my win con Perceptive Ball

[Nibbui]

but ok, here

VOTE: unvote

soon I'll buss my buddy though

[Nibbui]

by the way could maybe one of the heads of the hydra sign the posts?

It's a necessity if I'm trying to accurately read you guys and if I can't because I don't know who is posting I unhappily need to say that I'm super /in for lynching the slot...

I know that all the posting so far is from Nancy though, just saying for future sake

[Pink Ball]

Who would you most likely push from your nullreads?

[Nibbui]

idk right now, I need to do my homework on some people here

I need to say though that mastina is always a good lynch if I don't get a scum read on anyone before or if mastina doesn't like, become obvtown.

I think that trying to accurately read Mastina would take me more time than trying to accurately read all of the remaining slots and I don't have that much time

sorry mastina, I mean, I'm even complimenting your scum game but the consequence is that I find +EV town lynching you if I don't get scum reads.

I think I'll have scum reads by the end of my sorting though.

[Pink Ball]

I understand your situation, but it surprises me that you don't have even one scumlean. Your l find your lack of paranoia disturbing (not that you're less town because of it, I just wanted to say that reference)

[Pink Ball]

Shit there's a "your" before the reference damn it I had one job

[sheepsaysmeep]

I reread nancys last chain of posting and like

“town sheep can aleays v read me correctly is her go to for v cred or a lazy push on me as wwolf

and the amount of emphasis and repeats she has of that is unreally forced

[Nibbui]

VOTE: sheep

[Nibbui]

Perceptive Ball you don't find my lack of paranoia making me less townier?

[mastina]

whatever nibbui's been doing these last two pages feels textbook twtbw

Right idea.
Wrong user.

[mastina]

VOTE: sheepsaysmeep

I'm 100% sure this is scum right now.

We're lynching between me and sheep by the way because I've a lot of confidence in this read.

Oo, cool, finally something for me to disagree with. What in the world are you scumreading about sheep?

I feel like having a negative read on sheep is easy if you're not informed of his alignment like it seems a certain couple of individuals are with their placements.

maybe you and sheep are partners tbh
or maybe sheep with the duck.

Both of these are half-right, but you've got the wrong half to focus on. Like.

so the order is basically "sheep > podoboq > duck".

This is what earned you the N1 nightkill last game.

[mastina]

[Nibbui] - town
[--] - town lean
[Pink Ball, Skitter, NSG] - nulltown
[tw, mastina, infinite soda, podoroq] - null
[--] - nullscum
[--] - scum lean
[sheepsaysmeep] - scum

Oof I don't like this

You wouldn't, since it makes Nibbui insanely obvtown to the point where any protective role claiming a protection other than Nibbui is scumclaiming, and happens to point suspicion in the correct direction--a direction you don't want things to be taken.

VOTE: the worst
oh look duck is scum for real

Indeed he is! His reaction only makes it more obvious. This is how he reacts when he's made a plan, only to have it blow up in his face due to the actions of another player.

[mastina]

as scum I probably wouldn't pick NSG for a d1 lynch, would probably have tried to get a townread out of skitter via real-time interactions, would probably treat you fairly differently to the last time I was scum vs. town you, probably would have avoided engaging with mastina categorically, and I think I'd be less likely to be coming around on Punk Bill and bqpdbqb

Odd.

It seems to me that most of what you're describing as what you'd be doing as scum.
Is exactly what you've been doing.
Voting and having an early push on NSG does not a lynch make and you have since moved off, proving the point.
You haven't really engaged me.
And your stances are slow to move.

exasperated

I've no doubt about this but also see no reason for it to carry alignment. Being scumread by obvtown is exasperating equally as town and scum--for different reasons, but the emotion produced is identical regardless.

[mastina]

I'm feeling like we might need lynch mastina if she doesn't town up because of PoE.

My job is to hunt and lynch scum, not look town.

Looking town is what scum do; lynching scum is what town do.

General rule of thumb, offense comes over defense. I refuse to defend myself against accusations I know aren't true, when I can better use my time to make accusations of my own, which with luck on my side, would be true.

If everyone is looking town to you, then you need to reassess your metrics for what is town--because they are obviously off. If everyone is looking town to you, then you know you're wrong; you need to fundamentally reevaluate what holds actual alignment weight.

The metric I use, I posted already:

There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but

not

making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.

And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about.

If a user is producing a type of content which is town in

overwhelming

quantities, it is a fairly safe, reasonable bet that odds are they are town.
If a user is producing a few different types of content which are town in a significant quantity, it is basically all-but assured that they are town.

If a user produces a few sporadic, inconsistent, random pings which look town, but are otherwise overwhelmingly showing evidence otherwise.
That is not town, most of the time.
It is okay if you don't have any real reads to initially use weaker sort methods--and if those weaker sort methods give you a clear direction, great! Hone in on it, refine it, and find what makes them real.

But if your initial weaker sort methods are self-evidently, obviously flawed, then what you need to do is cast them out and start over with a new method that

does

work.

I said it to you last game, and I mean it this time, too.
I genuinely feel like your largest weakness as a player is that you lack conviction--you come to the right conclusion, but talk yourself out of it down the line because of doubt, because of some weak thing that you thought indicated something when it didn't. Reassessing can and is a strength, and I feel that it is your greatest one...but it is only a strength when correctly timed.

A correctly timed reevaluation can fundamentally shift the game in the direction it needs to go; wrongly timed reassessments will fundamentally shift the game in the direction of a mislynch.

maybe you're scum that thought I was scum reading you for the "wrong reasons"

Like this. This is a good thing to have seen. the worst was exasperated, and I've no reason to doubt that; I fully believe it. But I also firmly believe that the worst's exasperation at being scumread came from "I'm scum but not because of that, dammit!". (Even though to some extent I feel he

is

scum because of that.)

Reading the same four slots going back and forth Is giving me the false illusion that everybody's town right now

Effort != alignment. If you think that everyone posting is town, then you need to fundamentally rethink how you are reading players because activity != alignment. If you are townreading everyone that is talking, chances are you have a wrong townread because most of the time there is going to be scum talking.

[mastina]

sheep who is scum along with NSG and don't say infinitesoda

That's another thing.

I think I am literally the

only

player.

In the entire fucking game.

Who has a clear scumteam theory.

My scumteam is two individuals--never more, never less.
My scumteam is two individual scumreads...but

also

involves their interactions with each other.
the worst isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the podoboq slot.
podoboq isn't just scum because he's scum; he's scum because of his whole way of treating the worst.

Can anyone else produce a coherent team of two?

If you can't.
News for you.

Your scumreads are at least 50% wrong.

Nibbui's come the closest to this, by calling out sheep-the worst, or sheep-podoboq, but the sheep scumread was apparently a reaction. I still maintain that had Nibbui focused on the other half, the correct conclusion would have presented itself.

[mastina]

Btw, skitter's 722 is the first post of skitter's which I've had any feeling on at all, pretty much--and it was positive. I liked it; it wasn't something stellar, but it made me feel loosely town there. 724 actually gives me similarly good vibes, too.

[sheepsaysmeep]

i have no idea at all how to read mastina here or any idea how i ever will if needed tbh which is annoying

gun to my head she feels too much like she knows what she’s doing which i think might be indicative of wolf especially with how she referred to her apparently super super good w game earlier

but thats wo a good idea of how she actually is as either alignment

[Nibbui]

There's like 3, 4 different types of town-looking content that scum can make--a player making one in overwhelming quantities is an indicator that they aren't scum; a player making more than one in large quantities is indicative of them being town; a player making one of each type--but

not

making more than one or two of each type--is not something that indicates town, because a well-rounded scum player will always hit some of their town notes, in limited quantities.

And quantity is the problem I am talking about--there are aspects of town in the worst's posting, but none so strongly overwhelming as to be something beyond his scum range.
And I see evidence of his scumplay strewn about. If a user is producing a type of content which is town in

overwhelming

quantities, it is a fairly safe, reasonable bet that odds are they are town.
If a user is producing a few different types of content which are town in a significant quantity, it is basically all-but assured that they are town.

If a user produces a few sporadic, inconsistent, random pings which look town, but are otherwise overwhelmingly showing evidence otherwise.
That is not town, most of the time.
It is okay if you don't have any real reads to initially use weaker sort methods--and if those weaker sort methods give you a clear direction, great! Hone in on it, refine it, and find what makes them real.

But if your initial weaker sort methods are self-evidently, obviously flawed, then what you need to do is cast them out and start over with a new method that

does

work.

I said it to you last game, and I mean it this time, too.
I genuinely feel like your largest weakness as a player is that you lack conviction--you come to the right conclusion, but talk yourself out of it down the line because of doubt, because of some weak thing that you thought indicated something when it didn't. Reassessing can and is a strength, and I feel that it is your greatest one...but it is only a strength when correctly timed.

A correctly timed reevaluation can fundamentally shift the game in the direction it needs to go; wrongly timed reassessments will fundamentally shift the game in the direction of a mislynch.

I don't think this post is AI for you but let me explain myself anyway:

I've got what you're saying, but it's not so simple sometimes and you know it.

You said I lack conviction and that is like, basically my town play in short. In Open 741 I was scum reading Radiant from the get-go and even posted so in the unreleased private thread, however when I engaged with him I just got talked out of it because I was always reconsidering it, and ended up going for lynch bait that I thought was most likely town than not (because I was always considering "I might be wrong").

(Ceejay was a special case really, I've 0 idea why he played the way he played).

However, that's why I'm playing here the way I'm playing. Unless I have a firm logical case on someone I'll always lack conviction. Therefore I decided that the best way for me to play is to sign up in Micros because here I can do my homework on everyone and come up with a metric to read them based on, and I can put some confidence on it because there's anedoctal evidence.

It's not a strict meta read based on content, It's just understanding their personality and who they are, because in Mafia you're always *projecting* what people might or not do and don't matter your metric, it'll fail, and probably plenty of times depending who you are playing against.

My read list so far is mostly something to not look on too deep tbh. It was just impressions and I can end up reconsidering it. This is what I'm not reconsidering without good reasons though:

Podoboq is considerably town

Pink Ball is likely town (this one can fool me hard but I feel there's nothing to do if he is fooling me here)

You can argue that I've only begin to game solve right now and I plan in my next town game only to shitpost until I come to this point I guess.

[mastina]

Yes, I’m townreading you here for that wall post.

Speaking of bad initial weaker sort methods......

[Nibbui]

like, mastina fight me

why Podoboq is scummy and don't say because of his RVS post

I want real meaty reasons

[mastina]

Would Mastina ever try to be intentionally scummy as town or is it more likely to be scum WIFOM?

Why is it.
That people keep on saying.
I said I was intentionally trying to be scummy.

When I said no fucking such thing.

At any point in the game.

And said the opposite.
That I do no such thing.
Multiple times.

Copying my scumgame as town does not equate to acting scummy as town--it's

the opposite

. You know what my flowchart says? Effectively, on D1? "If mastina looks town...

lynch her; she's scum

." Because my scumgame is better than my towngame at looking town. My scumgame is more logical than my towngame. My scumgame is more precise, clean, altogether held together, than my towngame. My towngame is a mess, chaotic, hectic, altogether not well-designed.

So as town, I strive to replicate the successful aspects of my scumgame: the calm, collected, cool presence who retains control of the game in a logical way that is reasonably town appearing.

That

is what I mean when I say as town I try to mimic my scumgame.

Which is the furthest thing possible from trying to act scummy as town. I am no user of Slayer's Gambit.

Idk why Mastina’s pushing tw but I’m not liking it, so I’m probably going to vote there. This is obviously tw’s towngame here.

You're not liking it because your reasons for townreading the worst are absolute shit and given enough time I'll be able to tell you precisely why. This is the worst's scumgame here.

[mastina]

I'm quite surprised that podoboq is above sheep. Why the need to drop sheep so much when you had a more consistent read on him since early?
Also, do you feel that podoboq is towny enough to be that high?

These can be answered by "the worst is scum, pocketing you".

His read on sheep is mirroring your sentiment that this isn't outside of sheep's scumgame.