[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[Egix96]

Thor665 (L-1)

: rb, Nako, Malakitty, Creature,
Auro

Malakitty (L-5)

: Lamees

rb (L-5)

: Thor665

Leodanny, DarkLightA, Something_Smart,
Egix96

I wasn't meaning to imply it was an empty question.

I read it as - you have a problem with me wanting Mala to claim, and find it scummy.
I think she's likely scum, and want her lynched.
I'm maintaining that I still want her to if she's a PR, and tell us why it's unimportant instead of dodging it.

So explain why you think it's scummy, as I infer you are?

It just seemed to me like you were rolefishing her at first. Carry on.

[Egix96]

Which game is Thor playing more like - Newbie 1893, or Paris Mafia?

Can you link to the game?
I think Thor's style is such that it's hard to establish any significant tells from other games, my scumread on him is mostly from things in this game.

Look at his continued attacks on me. He got me from a townlean to a "top scumspect" on *one* question he kept insisting was empty, and my attempts to clarify. He accused me of another "empty question" which I objectively disproved, and turned it into a "but you didn't follow up with me" attack which he himself retracted. Again, attacked me for "complaining" about Nako when I said she needs more attention, when I clearly already had called out her active lurking. That's a *lot* of shade thrown at my slot, and terribly weak.

Did you read the interactions? What do you make of his attacks?

Open 734: Paris Mafia: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77108

It's a fairly recent game where Thor was scum. The only problem is that it was a multiball game (there were 2 Mafia and 2 Mimes) but that shouldn't make too much of a difference, I think...

As for your interactions with Thor this game... I haven't yet taken a close look at them, because in all honesty I just passed them off as TvT at first (compare: my interactions with him in 1893). Sometime later I might reread them.

[Lamees]

Intent to hammer

[Malakitty]

Lamees what you read on thor?

It scares me you okay with almost hammering everything

[Lamees]

No idea. Just gambling. Can't really form a read on him.

[Malakittens]

I mean it’s not like you’re trying either

[Auro]

UNVOTE:
No gambles, not while he's off the site

[Auro]

Whoever isn't voting him, please explain why the cases on him are bad.
Egix, I couldn't glean much from that game *shrug*, did you read the interactions yet? What's your take?

[Nako]

VOTE: Egix96

[MiniDeathStar]

Notice

Still searching for a backup

Leodanny

.

Thor665

has

(expired on 2018-12-31 18:40:00)

to post
before he, too, gets the Leodanny treatment.

[Egix96]

Whoever isn't voting him, please explain why the cases on him are bad.
Egix, I couldn't glean much from that game *shrug*, did you read the interactions yet? What's your take?

Okay, I've just multi-ISO'd you and Thor, skipping over the parts where Thor wasn't posting. I stopped at about #750 though because it's a lot...

I would say that it's very unlkely that you v Thor is SvS because I'm thinking you wouldn't have kept the conversation going for anywhere near that long if that were the case.
If it's TvS I'd guess Thor would be the scum. 80% confidence.

[Lamees]

I mean it’s not like you’re trying either

This is a bad accusation. Compare my posts to yours this game (not just the number but also the content).

But anyway this is a busy time period for me and I haven't been able to properly analyze things. At least I'm here though.

[Thor665]

Whoever isn't voting him, please explain why the cases on him are bad.

Oh please, allow me...

Now, wait, what are the cases on me?

Creature has that dictate trash.
You think I'm scummy for pointing out the dictate trash and steering a cop investigation on me by saying 'good'
Mala thinks I haven't been helpful enough (which ignores that my pushes have generated wagons but then town doesn't flip who i want them to)
SS is basically the Mala case and isn't even strong on it (which says town to me).
RB is trying to white knight right now, which should say something about my alignment no matter which alignment you think he is.
Laamess basically doesn't care.

Whoop-de-doo on that case on me.
Like, seriously, what are you asking people to argue against?
It's empty and dumb.
Open your eyes, vote RB, or I'll accept a Leo or Mala wagon as a salve.

[Thor665]

It actually boggles my mind you're asking for a defense to be offered on emptiness.
I'm sure you'll have a wall to explain how the case isn't empty - allow me to head you off; you're blatantly and objectively wrong.

[rb]

VOTE: Egix96

er

no

[Egix96]

Wow this game is so slow right now. ONE post while I was asleep? Then again, it was NYE so...

I will say I really don't like the look of Thor's two posts above. He doesn't seem to be responding to the threat of being lynched the same way that he was in my first game with him.

[MiniDeathStar]

Notice

DarkLightA

is also being replaced for inactivity.

[Auro]

Got prodded. Dunno what to say, really, haha. VLA for a day, still in NY celebrations.

@Thor yeah bud, no town points for that hypersimplification and misrep. I am down to lynch Mala if not you if you can get a wagon going there.

[Egix96]

Got prodded

I think we all did

[Thor665]

I will say I really don't like the look of Thor's two posts above. He doesn't seem to be responding to the threat of being lynched the same way that he was in my first game with him.

This is not valid analysis. You might as well be saying you want to lynch me for having red in my avatar - at least that would be something we could factually talk about.

@Thor yeah bud, no town points for that hypersimplification and misrep. I am down to lynch Mala if not you if you can get a wagon going there.

This is ridiculous - you are not actually addressing the valididty of my statement that the case on me is empty, and are then challenging me to defend myself by making a wagon for you to justify you moving off a wagon you can't defend. If you are town this is lazy and blind. If you are scum this is fine play.

[Thor665]

Thor665 (L-1): rb, Nako, Malakitty, Creature, Auro
Malakitty (L-5): Lamees
rb (L-5): Thor665

Not Voting: Leodanny, DarkLightA, Something_Smart,Egix96

So, clearly the core issue with the game is that almost half the players aren't voting.
I personally am town reading three of those lurksacks, so that's kind of sad - and for some reason people don't want to lynch Leodanny because...?

Let's do this just to shake things up and make fun of Auro;

VOTE: Malakitty

Hey, Auro, I've now created the SECOND LARGEST WAGON IN THE GAME! JOIN US!
Whoop-de-doo.

My wagon remains empty and fast - I've never seen one of those flip well.
All of you may continue to lie to yourselves and claim there's a justification for the "Case" on me. You are wrong on both counts, and hopefully after this game (though a few of you are too long in th etooth for me to hold out much hope) you'll learn to spot an empty as hell wagon.
Creature is my only objective town read on my wagon - not much of a shock. His case remains a joke.

Proceed.

[Auro]

I'm sure you'll have a wall to explain how the case isn't empty - allow me to head you off; you're blatantly and objectively wrong.

^

I'm not saying I have a brilliant, solid amazeballs case on you, but whatever I do have is pretty much enough

Creature was saying the possibility of scum!you fit with the NK, and gave other reasons. I think you're scummy not just for the weird "Oh I wouldn't dictate, not my scumplay" defense and the copping encouragement, but also your continuous shade towards me. The only other person who actually read it thinks you're prolly scum if it's not a TvT.

You just keep calling everything empty.

[Auro]

and for some reason people don't want to lynch Leodanny because...?

AFAIR when he was one of the largest wagons, he kept his vote on RB who wasn't a wagon at the time, instead of switching to the other counterwagon Mala.

It's not particularly indicative but I think scum!Leo would've been coached earlier to place his vote in someplace useful, so to me he's leaning town. If Mala's scum I'd prolly re-evaluate here, though.

[Thor665]

I'm not saying I have a brilliant, solid amazeballs case on you, but whatever I do have is pretty much enough

That's a subjective value call - but you have presented me saying "good" and claimed I was trying to direct a cop investigation (which also requires me to be the GF, so...it's a stretch on the "directing" and *also* a stretch on my role). And then you think me disagreeing with literally what Creature claimed his case was, while not digging deeper into his thoughts is just "scummy".

If you honestly think this is good enough (unless your goal is just to justify your vote moves) I am very sad with the quality of your play.

Creature was saying the possibility of scum!you fit with the NK, and gave other reasons.

Describe these theoretical other reasons.
Using a quote.
I'll wait

I think you're scummy not just for the weird "Oh I wouldn't dictate, not my scumplay" defense and the copping encouragement, but also your continuous shade towards me. The only other person who actually read it thinks you're prolly scum if it's not a TvT.

First off - me tossing shade at your play is a claim i could make of you towards me, or frankly half the playerbase towards me. Shade is also called "offering an opinion" it's not a valid scumtell unless you can suggest it's full of lies or specifically describe the angle.
Secondly, you just suggested your case was valid because someone thinks I'm scum or town...isn't this a giant warning to you about the validity of the thought? (incidentally, this might be shade throwing again)
Thirdly, I agree that most players haven't read my posts - that this doesn't worry you in light of the flash wagon on me well...*shade*

You just keep calling everything empty.

I will, and after I flip, if you're town, how will you disagree with me then?
You need to be able to say why things aren't empty - I'm saying why they are.
A blind man should be able to see the case is empty - are you more blind than blind?

[Auro]

Hey, Auro, I've now created the SECOND LARGEST WAGON IN THE GAME! JOIN US!
Whoop-de-doo.

Sure.
VOTE: Malakitty, I want to see some votes from the non-voters now.

I did note some concern over rushing a lynch on you (or RB) because of the lurkslots earlier, but meh. No one's posting, and some apparently don't even bother, so I reasoned I might as well get a lynch I'm happy with.

GF isn't much of a stretch now, now that we've gotten the cop flip -- making it pretty likely for a GF to exist.

Creature never said you dictated it. He said Persivul was on to you, which you responded with something like "You think I was under that much pressure so as to dictate the NK?" and he responded saying you would dictate, which you combated saying it wasn't your scumplay.

And yeah, good enough comparatively. I was on to RB's inconsistency earlier, but it does make sense that HE could make those inconsistencies as town, and I was simply using a wrong baseline to make a judgment. I recall asking you to make a case on what else was scummy about him, but you didn't.

Also, the information gained by your scumflip is gonna be useful, as I pointed out. Clears both RB and Mala, and I'll go after Something_Smart next.

"Shade" here is your continuous hounding of me calling everything I do empty, and having me post extensively to prove it isn't -- which I doubt was even necessary. I've been asking people to read, I do want them to get involved as much as you do -- but your wagon having grown fast in this context isn't the same as usual, could simply imply you're being bussed, and/or have buddies within the no-vote slots. I'll make a note here to analyze this further when I'm actually free. I'll also note that I didn't like a couple of votes on your wagon, especially Nako's.

If you're town, I have no idea what you were aiming for, and your being town doesn't mean I can't disagree. I still *will* disagree on that, and sure, we can argue ad infinitum post-game. The case isn't empty.