micro 840: mystery box of silver (this is over)

[LolWagons]

Mastina join the TW wagon it’s going places.

[the worst]

we should cross-vote <3

[skitter30]

VOTE: the worst

[the worst]

skitter please unvote while mastina catches up

[the worst]

she unironically accidentally lolhammered the highest town win equity slot while catching up in NSG's dynamic duo game, as town

[the worst]

like she's not good at paying attention to current gamestate while Doing Mastina Things

[skitter30]

... you're at three votes?

[mastina]

and i don't dont' like her saying 'it wasn't *as* scum-indicative' as i'd otherwise be inclined to think' because i literally pulled four examples of me doing that in my towngames (i didn't check my scumgames); i don't think it's scum-indicative at all for me (and she's applying this standard to me in particular)

I think you misinterpreted what I said.

I said that your opening was something that I would normally think was scum indicative--
But having familiarity with your playstyle, I recognized it was not as scum indicative as I would normally think it was.
In other words.
Null.
Null that I'd, if desperate, lynch, but still null all the same.

the fact that the two posts of mine that give you a 'postive feeling' are ones where i'm suspicious of your biggest scumread is a little disturbing

Actually.
It wasn't the fact that you were suspicious of my largest scumread in those posts--quite the opposite, in fact!
While it'd be a lie to say that didn't contribute to the townread.
What really caught my eye wasn't the seeing my same suspicion.
It was seeing reads I strongly disagreed with.

i don't particularly have a problem with nsg's nibbui push tbh; i more have aproblem with the fact that she disappeared after that; i feel like ellitell, while not being like a 100% tell, is a semi-decent indicator and we're kinda in that category here

Nibbui, the fact that you just assume that I'm scum, and buddies with sheep, just because I don't have confidence in YOUR confidence, is horrible play. By all means, to other players, if you know Nibbui better, feel free to vote sheep or even lynch him if you think Nibbui is on the right track here. I just can't, because I don't know Nibbui, I can't trust that his reads are perfect, and I don't even know for sure that he's town. I'm more convinced that he's town now, after this stupid argument, but I'm also less convinced that he's a better player than I am.

this is pretty townie imo

I'm the only one here right now, and everybody apparently knows you better than me. Please don't drop this. Please talk to the other players, and interact with them about this. If you believe sheep is scum, don't just drop that. I want to understand why, and maybe talking to other players will help clarify what is going through your head.

this too

VOTE: sheep
There. Now stay, and talk to us. Don't leave this game and go mope just because I don't understand what's going on with you.

and this one

Specifically, stuff like this.
Not by itself.
But

in tandem

with the suspicion on the worst.

It wasn't any single part of the post.
It was the post as a whole.
The reason for that is because the townread comes from, basically, "original thought". Your thoughts there were the first ones which felt to me, beyond the point of being possible to fake, beyond surface level. Beyond something that could be posted as either alignment, something indicative of real, actual genuine thought put into reads, where you saw the worst as scum but hard-disagreed on two of my strongest reads (nsg as town, and podoboq as scum).

So it was disagreement more than agreement that made me like the post.

i mean how often do scum actually do this? i can't remember an example of one scum-member literally exactly mimicing the reads of their partner and then having their partner lampshade it

When scum have in their PT agreed to an agenda, reads overlap is incredibly common. The lampshade of it is arguably the most damning factor present.

[the worst]

Thought it was 4 for some reason, carry on

[the worst]

I'm kinda half tempted to start reactively replacing out whenever someone misapplies the ellitell lmao but anyway

[skitter30]

no, i checked before i voted, that's the third

in case you're wondering:
-> things i may have seen as townie from you idk if they're ai anymore
-> you have a bunch of bad posts (pl, nancy intent to hammer, filthy) that feel wrong
-> you feel fake-bravado-y. insinuating that you may be nk'd tonight is ridiculously out of touch with the gamestate given that you aren't obvtown by any means and multiple people are saying they'd like to lynch you; i believe you know that you prob aren't getting nk'd tonight so that felt fake and like an attempt to portray confidence in your towniness when you're not being percieved that way

p-edit idk what that's referring to

[mastina]

I said that your opening was something that I would normally think was scum indicative--
But having familiarity with your playstyle, I recognized it was not as scum indicative as I would normally think it was.

I realize that may still be unclear.

So.

Theory talk time.

I've written this all out somewhere before, but I don't remember where I wrote it out so I can't just call it up easily for a convenient point of reference, so retyping up the basic process.

When I scumhunt.

I scumhunt using three axes.

The first axis is off of generic in-game things. Things that have

no correlation to being player-specific

, but work as a general outview of things. It is a fluent thing, working off of different circumstances. The same move made in two different situations may give me two different alignments, even WITHOUT being player-specific, simply because of the vastly different circumstances behind the move. However, in spite of being fluid, it still has a consistent process to it.

Move A, in situation A, is scum; Move A, in situation B, is town; Move A will always be town in situation A and scum in situation B. This process is incredibly complex, covering literally hundreds of different possible combinations. It is the backbone of my scumhunting process--I see something, and compare it to my mental file. "This action is something that, given these circumstances, I think indicates scum".

But while this is my main scumhunting process.
It is not my only scumhunting process.

My second tool is basically player-specific things. Things that have

no correlation to being play-specific

, but work for

that specific player

. These override the generic ones--in other words. And this is what I meant. An action that I would normally view as scummy, I'll view as not being scum given who made it; that also applies vice-versa, where an action that I would normally view as town, I won't view as town. This obviously requires familiarity with the players in question; I can do it far more accurately on players I know well, rather than have passing familiarity with.

Does that explain it?

[skitter30]

The reason for that is because the townread comes from, basically, "original thought". Your thoughts there were the first ones which felt to me, beyond the point of being possible to fake, beyond surface level. Beyond something that could be posted as either alignment, something indicative of real, actual genuine thought put into reads, where you saw the worst as scum but hard-disagreed on two of my strongest reads (nsg as town, and podoboq as scum).

i mean i guess but it felt a little to me like you were rewarding me with a townlean for having the read you were pushing

When scum have in their PT agreed to an agenda, reads overlap is incredibly common. The lampshade of it is arguably the most damning factor present.

idk i guess it just feels very blatant and open to me and i don't feel like scum really like to share an agenda that blatant most of the time

[the worst]

I scumhunt using three axes.

I thought you used a bow?
(brb reading the rest)

[the worst]

mmm ok

[skitter30]

Does that explain it?

yeah
i originally thought you were saying that *for me* this particular instance of making that sort of post was kinda scummy, even though i often make posts like that - which i objected to because i do that .... like in half my games

not what you're actually saying - in a generic sense, that sort of post may be scummy, but for me it isn't.

[skitter30]

no, i checked before i voted, that's the third

in case you're wondering:
-> things i may have seen as townie from you idk if they're ai anymore
-> you have a bunch of bad posts (pl, nancy intent to hammer, filthy) that feel wrong
-> you feel fake-bravado-y. insinuating that you may be nk'd tonight is ridiculously out of touch with the gamestate given that you aren't obvtown by any means and multiple people are saying they'd like to lynch you; i believe you know that you prob aren't getting nk'd tonight so that felt fake and like an attempt to portray confidence in your towniness when you're not being percieved that way

p-edit idk what that's referring to

-> you're also not really engaging me about the non-meta reasons i may be scumreading you, which i find scummy
(ie you ignored this post, tell me you don't want to talk about the bad posts or try to redirect the convo about them, etc)

[Nibbui]

ok I'm laughing reading some of tw posts because he is being like, really sarcastic

and idk if that's him low-key scum claiming or if he is just upset with the game

also I'm laughing that you rap battled in a scum game, I'm definitely reading that

[Nibbui]

I think that it was American President that MathDino was rapping in his posts?

I was initially going to read the game but I thought it was so funny that I only ended up reading Math's ISO

we should make gimmik rap alts guys

[mastina]

can you explain to me how mastina was being scummy?

Shouldn't you know, given you're calling me scum?

[mastina]

I'm really not sure if Nancy is scum though. Maybe we are wrong?

I mean.

I've only been saying that since the beginning of the game?

[the worst]

no, i checked before i voted, that's the third

in case you're wondering:
-> things i may have seen as townie from you idk if they're ai anymore
-> you have a bunch of bad posts (pl, nancy intent to hammer, filthy) that feel wrong
-> you feel fake-bravado-y. insinuating that you may be nk'd tonight is ridiculously out of touch with the gamestate given that you aren't obvtown by any means and multiple people are saying they'd like to lynch you; i believe you know that you prob aren't getting nk'd tonight so that felt fake and like an attempt to portray confidence in your towniness when you're not being percieved that way

p-edit idk what that's referring to

I still think this is towny and like none of it is invalid, just not correct and probably closer to an entirely ingame read rather than a meta read which I rate

[Pink Ball]

I'm up to a rap battle

[the worst]

-> you're also not really engaging me about the non-meta reasons i may be scumreading you, which i find scummy
(ie you ignored this post, tell me you don't want to talk about the bad posts or try to redirect the convo about them, etc)

actually wrt 1410 I wanted to take a couple of gos to digest all the points you were making. if you have nonmeta stuff you wanna talk about in particular like, I'm down

a lot of its playstyle/semantic stuff which I'm not sure how to engage with you on right now

[mastina]

You and mastina were the unique considerable wagons and we're approaching deadline and the game is stalled

Gee I wonder why.
Maybe it's because.
The wagons there are shit?

Almost every player here has a scum lean in your slot also

That alone should be a red fucking flag.

@everyone

, could you play the fucking game instead of talking about your meta?

P-edit

Hello, active lurking scum. Nice to meet you, I'm mastina. We should get properly acquainted; I'm rather fond of bonding--specifically, with rope. Around the neck.