Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Not_Mafia]

Thanks for modding Krazy, congrats scum

[Not_Mafia]

Also, the worst was scum?! Wow what a shocker, I literally cannot believe it

[the worst]

NM fucking town MVP
nqa

[skitter30]

yeah, @not-mafia, your reads were spot on
sorry for denigrating them this kinda changed my perspective wrt your reads

[Nauci]

swingy as fuck, yes, but given it was pseudo-multiball, that was going to be a given

I think that the roles in the setup are mostly fine

but to me, the issue is that anti-town roles had enormous amounts of setup information, while the vast majority of town roles did not? I guess I should have assumed fuckery was at foot just because of how precise the explanation of my cop results were, but for some reason I just didn't think it was reasonable to think things were this fucky. Maybe that's just me though.

[Nauci]

yeah, @not-mafia, your reads were spot on
sorry for denigrating them this kinda changed my perspective wrt your reads

QFT

[skitter30]

swingy as fuck, yes, but given it was pseudo-multiball, that was going to be a given

I think that the roles in the setup are mostly fine

but to me, the issue is that anti-town roles had enormous amounts of setup information, while the vast majority of town roles did not? I guess I should have assumed fuckery was at foot just because of how precise the explanation of my cop results were, but for some reason I just didn't think it was reasonable to think things were this fucky. Maybe that's just me though.

i talked about this at length, but yeah i felt like this too.
i guess i just feel like town just ... didn't have enough information to navigate the various anti-town roles

(i'm still kinda stuck on the nk flavor thing, for example)

[MathBlade]

Gg all

Thanks to Krazy for testing the new votecounter app.

**hides**

Gonna be strictly app ina few days!

Hope y’all had fun.

[Gamma Emerald]

btw I recognized tw’s Xtoxm read was bs from it not fitting what xtoxm was showing in my game that recently ended

[the worst]

I actually to date don't totally understand the nk flavour stuff either but bulletproof = immune to bullets except also Shoshin was bulletproof and lol immune to zerg kills as well so it's... I think probably best to treat it as flavour fun and not focus on too much on who made the kill (like normal vig games) probably...

what information did you think was too much out of interest?

[the worst]

btw I recognized tw’s Xtoxm read was bs from it not fitting what xtoxm was showing in my game that recently ended

[skitter30]

no, my point is that town didn't have enough information (not that they had too much) and that the way the night kills played out very much fucked iwth town's ability to figure out what was going on

from my pov (until i died, but whatever):
two town killing prs died impossibly n1 wiht bullet flavor; they both had bullet flavor
i died via zerg
everyone else died via bullet flavor

i don't know when you guys knew about the witch but from my pov day2, there were two town killing prs dead who shouldnt' ahve been responsible for each other's death (pgo was dead + creature was even-night) so there's two other sources of night kills (vig? groupscum? sk?)
and then i died n2 to some other entity (zerg flavored kill) - so now there's a third source of nk's; and the first two didn't kill n1 and the third didn't kill n2
and everyoen else died to bullets after that until varsoon (i'm guessing because performer killed them?)

so l ike trying to piece what sort of anti-town there even were (or how many there were) from the night-kills was kinda impossible

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw if the next game was anything like this I suggest you maybe warn people

[skitter30]

like i think that there were *a lot* of anti-town for a game this size that town didn't have the requisite information to try to handle

like the arso douses weren't even notified of it? how was town supposed to play around an arso they didn't know existed? you had a rolecop, town didn't.

or just trying to figure out the creature/irrel situation was very counter-intuitive imo

like i guess my major gripe is that town really had no idea what they were up against, or what sort of anti-town even existed until very very late in the game when the anti-towns already had the requisiste numbers for things like quickhammers

[Nauci]

This game taught me that RNGesus has deemed that The Worst should always be scum in a game where scum fake claim gunsmith

and that I should always be an investigative role trying to suppress counter claiming the gunsmith fake claim

and that Skitter can always be VT (INTENSE ENVY INTENSIFIES)

[skitter30]

yes, i'm ridiculously good at rolling vt

[Krazy]

Yeah I think I should have informed relly there was witch. I don't think gf was a huge problem here given that town did get the indirect guilty he was supposed to get (xtox block +varsoon zerg nk result) but it was a lot harder for town to connect the dots than I anticipated there. But even the false positive (nancy on tw) would have resulted in a scum lynch. That's one reason I was shocked neither performer or tw were lynched d2 particularly given the hammer.

Varsoon + rb counters gf, loud vig +doc eliminates some wifom, nauci can catch any of the other scum (and verynearly had a guilty on keyser going into d2). Scum played into the gf too well, so performer drew both xtox abduct and nauci invest.

Nauci also almost explained mitis role thru flavor spec at one point and nancy almost inferred a gf like role thru her informed status and inference on kerrigan flavor.

Mew inferred a correct inno on koki but somehow both got lynched...

I feel more like the pieces were constantly nearly falling into place for town and given how close this game really was (given one wrong witching throws it to town) I kinda don't know that giving town a lot more pieces was necessary, altho I do wish I gave relly one more direct hint. (I did confirm gf, redirector, and arson were all possible in the setup post).

Idk I'll have a few more coherent thoughts tomorrow

[Nauci]

didn't have enough information to navigate the various anti-town roles

Not to mention that town basically have to out being TPR in order to tell town that there's a witch in order to explain the dang night 1 deaths

[skitter30]

again, krazy, i thought your moderation was excellent and i would def play another game modded by you

i just ... had some gripes about the setup from town's pov

[Nauci]

new votecounter app

It is dope! Thank you!

[Nauci]

(i'm still kinda stuck on the nk flavor thing, for example)

See, I had even figured out that flavor mechanic

but Varsoon said he was explicitly informed that zerg by default do not have bullets

so when 2/3 zerg turn out to have bullets

??????

[Krazy]

Next setup will be confirmed singleball with significantly less swing

Mastina has approved, still letting schadd give it one more pass and am open to a third reviewer

[Nauci]

wo town killing prs died impossibly n

Yeah it was literally impossible for town to figure out that the witch role could bypass the gating until I managed to ask

though it would have been great if kokichi hadn't been scumhammered before I could even tell the thread my answer; I guess we could have had that information on D3

[skitter30]

so when 2/3 zerg turn out to have bullets

2/3 of them did? i thought it was just performer

[Nauci]

so now there's a third source of nk's

BILLY MAYS HERE

BUT WAIT, THERE'S MORE!

WAIT UNTIL YOU GET A LOAD OF THIS ARSON BUSINESS