Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

mbaki · Post Post #2625 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:03 pm

In post 2621, Moongrass wrote:Thank you both. So, given that they did know that there was a traitor, then it justifies the argument that rb was signalling as he would think that his team were looking out for him. I think this heavily implicates you, mbaki.

We
Went
Over
This
Day
2

If I was scum, I would be looking for a traitor and therefore I would likely notice rb's crumbs. Additionally, rb townread me, and additionally at least 4 of his 5 scumreads were town with only one probably scum (DDL). Why in the fuck would I night kill him? And I already acknowledge on a surface level those look like crumbs, but they aren't.

Follow your predecessor. Don't gamethrow.

mbaki · Post Post #2626 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:06 pm

In post 2623, Varsoon wrote:
In post 2621, Moongrass wrote:Thank you both. So, given that they did know that there was a traitor, then it justifies the argument that rb was signalling as he would think that his team were looking out for him. I think this heavily implicates you, mbaki.
Apologies for getting pissed earlier--I'd follow you on Mbaki, tbh.
We should have 1 day of leeway. Chances are you die tonight, so, really
I'm good with whatever.

UNVOTE:

You will not follow him on mbaki

.

Varsoon · Post Post #2627 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:10 pm

Lots of hypotheticals, there, man.
"I would likely notice those crumbs"
Unless you didn't.
"RB townread me while scumreading town; why the fuck would I night kill him?"
I don't know, man, maybe you weren't around or just phoned in the NK, I don't have to come up with whatever machination it is.

All we can judge is people's play here.
What I am saying is that I can think of plenty reasons that fit why anyone in this playerlist, as scum, would make the kills they made and took the positions they took. Saying "Why would I" or "Why wouldn't I" is just a useless hypothetical argument.

mbaki · Post Post #2628 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:13 pm

There's also the hypothetical that those are crumbs, which they aren't.

Moongrass · Post Post #2629 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:09 pm

In post 2616, mbaki wrote:
In post 2613, Moongrass wrote:@Mbaki: could you please explain the DDL scum situation a little better so I can narrow my search?
I don't get what you're asking.

I'm asking you to kindly elaborate on your DDL scumread, as you skipped over that part in the post I referenced; Or, if it's convenient, you could point to the parts in DDL's ISO that are particularly scummy, and which you think require further investigation.

Moongrass · Post Post #2630 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:22 pm

In post 2622, OkaPoka wrote:I've walked this road before...

Moongrass why is varsoon town?

Varsoon isn't towny enough to be scum who made it this far, if that makes sense. I have more ideas about why the current players are here, however I need to complete more pieces to make the argument convincing.

Are we under time pressure?

OkaPoka · Post Post #2631 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:24 pm

It doesn't make sense.

Moongrass · Post Post #2632 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:26 pm

Ah, that's unfortunate. Hopefully it will make more sense when I better explain myself.

OkaPoka · Post Post #2633 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:46 pm

We are kinda under time pressure ~3 days

Moongrass · Post Post #2634 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:58 pm

Nice, that's plenty of time.

VOTE: mbaki

I'd like mbaki's scumread on DDL explained, please.

@Oka: aside from Varsoon, do you have any other scumreads? Could you also talk about why you tunnelled mbaki for the entirety of D2, yet voted BEF in your Day 3 entrance?

@Varsoon: I wouldn't mind some extra pressure on mbaki if you would be so obliging.

Varsoon · Post Post #2635 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:05 pm

VOTE: Mbaki

I still think it's one of Creature/Oka with my chips on Creature but I'll follow.

Moongrass · Post Post #2636 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:08 pm

In post 2635, Varsoon wrote:VOTE: Mbaki

I still think it's one of Creature/Oka with my chips on Creature but I'll follow.

Are you scumreading them because they voted you, or?

OkaPoka · Post Post #2637 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:14 pm

Second scumbud:

DDL would make the most sense to me, he's AtE'ing and getting very mucky like he did in his last scum game and his tone has been shifty this game. However, there are certain AtE tactics he used that game in which he hasn't yet, so I'm not pulling the trigger on that read and locking it in. There is also some interesting read progressions, but I don't know how that fits into the grand scheme of things.

Mbaki is another pick I am considering. Basically I still can't wrap my head around his self vote and I really don't like how he handled DDL. I'd expect mbaki to highroad DDL in that instance, but he didn't which is a bit strange to me because he's been calling out the playerlist a lot this game. However, there is also the fact that I agreed with him a lot later day 2 and early day 3, which means we are on the same wavelength a lot of the time, and I don't think scum can possibly replicate that close of a wavelength match with me. Like his analysis on Vorkuta and BEF were on point with what I was thinking, even the details of said cases.

Anyways mbaki readflip basically happened because I started agreeing with him a lot even with my scumread on him, and basically it hit me that maybe I was tunneling. I voted BEF out of the gate because I felt like it was inevitable that BEF was going to get voted up so I wanted to force a claim out without waiting. And then he had bad claim.

OkaPoka · Post Post #2638 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:15 pm

With that being said, anything other than Varsoon lynch is suboptimal and thus bad.

Moongrass · Post Post #2639 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:16 pm

In post 2101, Varsoon wrote:@mbaki: I forgot rb flipped scum--there's likely just 2 alive.
Still think we should Mass claim today.

@Oka, do you think that Varsoon fabricated this townslip?

OkaPoka · Post Post #2640 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:20 pm

I guess?

varsoon is also the person that was scared of being at l2 today because scum could quickhammer if they wanted to. which is like what?

mbaki · Post Post #2641 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:24 pm

In post 2629, Moongrass wrote:
In post 2616, mbaki wrote:
In post 2613, Moongrass wrote:@Mbaki: could you please explain the DDL scum situation a little better so I can narrow my search?
I don't get what you're asking.
I'm asking you to kindly elaborate on your DDL scumread, as you skipped over that part in the post I referenced; Or, if it's convenient, you could point to the parts in DDL's ISO that are particularly scummy, and which you think require further investigation.

I have answered this. Iso me. If you're going to throw your slot in the shitter I'm not going out of my way to make your life easier. If you actually read my posts and still have questions, ask.

Moongrass · Post Post #2642 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:33 pm

@mbaki: how am I throwing my slot in the 'shitter' exactly?

OkaPoka · Post Post #2643 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:37 pm

hey moongrass, how much of this game have you read?

Moongrass · Post Post #2644 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 6:42 pm

In post 2643, OkaPoka wrote:hey moongrass, how much of this game have you read?

I'm partway through Day 3.

mbaki · Post Post #2645 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 7:40 pm

In post 2642, Moongrass wrote:@mbaki: how am I throwing my slot in the 'shitter' exactly?

Your slot probably had the best reads of anyone this game, and was voting scum. You took that wagon and turned it into a wagon on town for shitty reasons. I do not believe you're as experienced as you insinuated you were to Oka.

And yes, this is me whining, I still think you're town. I can also tell when I'm going to be lynched and this is one of those times.

Moongrass · Post Post #2646 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:16 pm

@mbaki: AtE is a tunnel trigger point for me, but let's break down the logic behind your whining.

When you said I was putting my slot in the "shitter," this insinuated that I was going to be scumread. If you meant that I'd be on your shitlist, then I don't really care, or see how that's relevant?

Sadly, I have noticed a pattern over the duration of this game. Anytime someone has stated a scumread on you, you have resorted to attacking the competency of the player, and then the town at large.

This toneshit was particularly obvious when you started "buddying" me, in what I've interpreted to be an attempt at misdirection. You were asking for my help to look into other slots, yet when I started asking about the traitor crumb, and your scumread, your attitude did a 180.

You have no standing from which to attack the competency of other players, when you've been part of the problem that lead the game to this state, and also, when you clearly can't control your own emotions enough to play rationally. This type of behaviour is not conducive to a winning town atmosphere.

If you are town, I ask that you put this whining aside and help me find actual scum.

mbaki · Post Post #2647 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:32 pm

I'll self hammer over a no lynch at deadline, that's about it.

You have demonstrated no interest in looking at my posts. I posted my solve with explanations and you didn't address it.

A winning town atmosphere requires good players. A bunch of boy scouts couldn't beat a team of jackasses that play AAA hockey. This analogy is not relevant but I thought it was funny in my high head so I'm posting it anyways.

Moongrass · Post Post #2648 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:08 pm

Lol. To each their own.

I'm going to lock in both Varsoon, and KMD as town. Don't ask me to justify my townreads, TIA.

InB4 Oka asks how much I've read - I'm still working on it.

Moongrass · Post Post #2649 (ISO) » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:25 pm

Villa: Varsoon, Kmd4390, Creature
Limbo: DrDolittle
Wolf: mbaki, OkaPoka

DrDoLittle subs into scum, if either of the bottom two flip town.

Fun fact: scum players familiar with Creature's meta on MS would never leave him alive.

I think that's all I'll be reading for now, since I'm pretty happy with these reads.