Mini Normal 2046: Autumn's Farewell [Endgame]

[OkaPoka]

Part 1: Who is Varsoon?

Moderato.

To preface, I’m taking a different tone and style than I usually do to write this case. Why? Because obviously the way I delivered my case does not work. Either I’m wrong, or everyone else is. And I’m pretty sure I’m right here. So let’s start.

First, Varsoon is an experienced player and moderator, I want to emphasize this because it is important in reading a slot such as his versus let’s say, Vorkuta. He should read differently than newbies, because he should know Mafia on Mafiascum is played, he should be capable at the very least of understanding how basic mechanics and setups work.

Of course, this game has been different. He himself admits that here:

Spiderverse was really good, probably one of my favorite animated movies ever made.

Also, some shit happened that's really soured me on playing mafia so I might just replace out here since I'm having trouble keeping up. :/

ok be honest with me here

you planned to do nothing this game because u were a universal backup?

Until I inherited something and got to use it, yeah.
I was also having trouble engaging with this game since I was in, like, 4 others at the same time
While working full time
While sicker than I've been all year
While catching a signup ban over something that's really made me not want to play mafia
But yeah if you wanna scumread me for it like Oka, be my guest?
*snip*

But what has been interesting has been the shifting explanation as to why he’s been acting this way, keep in mind, he’s been posting in other games earlier on while on V/LA and creature has called him out on it for not participating much this game. His activity has only spiked in this day.

All the other games I was in have ended so now I'll probably be more present here.
Maybe.
Sorry for low-efforting this.

Fish is lynched, but North is not a mod that instalocks usually so we have time.

Have you read the full game Varsoon?

I've been skimming really hard.
So I've read it in the same way a college student has read the books they are assigned to read each week for an English class.

To articulate better, you said you had two people in mind you would rather lynch, and even minor traction on one of the wagons, and then just kinda shrugged and voted BEF instead, who you'd previously said you didn't want to lynch today.

Eh, saw the logic for BEF, wasn't a huge fan of the BEF claim (it doesn't line up with what I think is designed, but again, could be mod WIFOM)
And yeah
S'bout it
I'm now kinda worried it'll flip green and I'll break my streak of saying "Bad lynch" and the lynch being a bad lynch but we'll see.

These posts come day 3 by the way. Pretty self-evident what he means here. He’s been low efforting this game, doesn’t want to play really. Apathetic. Not really keeping up.

I don't see how it doesn't make sense.
I have a role where I visited Creature, which has functionality based on Creature's role/action followed by the actions others took.
I specifically wanted to claim last.
You're the one that pushed otherwise.
I have a role that is only good late-game because I have to have a night to inherit another role if one even flips.
I specifically played in a way that would maximize my survivability so that I could maximize the use of my role.

I also consistently opposed lynches on town, for what it's worth.

This is the first hint of him changing to the tune as to why he’s played this way. Now he’s explicitly saying his low effort has been a result of his role claim, UB, which does add credibility to his claim because well, it’s an explanation for two issues that people have with his slot. But the reason has shifted. Town doesn’t need to change their tunes. They don’t need to increase the credibility of why they’ve played they played.

And of course finally, this above post, after me calling him out on doing nothing, he merges his explanations together to one.

Now he goes onto continue explaining everything away, but I think I’ve made my point clear. His explanation towards his activity has shifted for no good reason, he’s adding credibility to himself when that’s not what Town does.

Yeah I was really hoping that I could afford to play bad until my role reveal but it turned out that only Nero really cranked out decent play.
:/

Apparently he made this post just now so yeah. He doesn’t have a solid story.
---
My next point in this section will deal with his experience. Rather, things that don’t make sense from an experienced player PoV and probably just a good ol’ AtE.

Thanks for putting town within range for scum to quickhammer if they wanted, jackass.

He is at L2 here. No reason to be worried unless both scum out themselves here to fast hammer in which case we catch two scum. And he can’t make the excuse that we are in LYLO because he recognizes earlier that we aren’t.

@Oka: It's a closed setup. Scum could be sitting on a vig. Anything's possible. I don't take those kinds of chances. You shouldn't, either.

This is his attempt to reason what he believed. He continues to insist on me unvoting him at L2 for whatever reason and now his explanation is

Why does it matter if I unvote?

If scum decides to yoloquickhammer here, they would out themselves.

They can't win in this nightphase. They have no extra kills, that is not normal. 4v9 isn't possible.

The closer ANYONE is to lynch range, the easier it is for some stupid shit to happen that compromises us during or after massclaim and I'm not going to let this game be a loss because someone got a hard on for me.

And then we have his weird attempt to towncase himself

You'd think that I'd be killed by now if DDL was scum, right?
Since I had such a hard-on for their lynch and, apparently, with rb's flip, I looked pretty town, right?

You don't think DDL would see me as a threat worth removing if he was scum and I was town?
Hm.

Only after mbaki calls him out for being unreasonable. (Because Varsoon has done very little up until today)

Damn, dude.
I guess it's true, though. I played in a way that'd make me very low priority to kill and that's on top of me being a shitter at this game.

Point is Varsoon is being overreactive and making questionable points that end up getting refuted. He shifts explanations again. This is scummy because it shows that he can’t have a consistent thought, probably because his thoughts aren’t genuine.

More parts later.

[Varsoon]

Already told you; I had all that stuff going on and I intentionally winged low activity on this game due to my role.
I literally sent the mod a PM when I got the Universal Backup role and said, "Oh cool, I have to play town enough to survive until someone useful dies, but not so town I get killed before then. Great."

I also don't have faith in ANY of ya'll, tbh.
I think scum could've quick-hammered my ass and gotten away with it with how weak ya'll've been playing this game.

On the real, if you think over-reactive and having questionable points = my scum game, then you're not really well-versed on my meta, man. Then again, maybe I would self-admittedly play like shit for the WIFOM card, but, eh, not against this userlist.

Try again?

[northsidegal]

VC 4.12

votes

[2] OkaPoka

:

Moongrass 2714, Varsoon 2635

[2] Varsoon

:

OkaPoka 2112, Creature 2523

[1] mbaki

:

DrDolittle 2273

[1] DrDolittle

:

mbaki 2183

[1] Not Voting

:

Kmd4390 2381

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch

The Day 4 deadline is in

: (expired on 2019-01-20 04:15:59)

Mod Notes

:

[OkaPoka]

Part 2: The real DrDolittle

Waltz.

No I’m not going to talk about DDL, I’m just saying that Varsoon has done little.

But Varsoon doesn’t want you to believe that.

Oka, if you're town, you're gonna have to come off this shit where you're insisting I'm scum
Like how the fuck am I to engage with that even?

Ya'll never cared to listen to me before and ya'll don't care to listen to me now but fuck it

I also consistently opposed lynches on town, for what it's worth.

Let’s see how much “opposition” he has really done.
Lynch 1: YyottaCat lynch.

Why are you all jumping on Yyotta? Is it the low post count?
This game is hard for me to parse.
40 pages and no one's said anything of hard substance for me.
Why are you all so formless?

That’s not a defense sir. That’s not a position. That’s just a question!

It gives us nothing, imo.

That's what all flips do, though.
What I mean is that I wish the interactions with the wagon were more palpable.

I don't think it'll flip scum, though.
Getting a mislynch with low info is the worst outcome.

I don't have a read on Yyota.
I don't think I've had a single interaction on the slot.
I'd lean it more likely town than not given how other players have treated it, though.

Oh… I see.
Wait!

By my count, it's hammered.
Why did we relent from DDL when he claimed VT at L-1?

VOTE: Yyotta
Just to be sure, then.
It's an awful lynch, in my opinion.

This came before those other posts. You didn’t start defending the slot until twilight. Strange.

So no, he hasn’t really opposed this lynch, unless you count twilight defense. Then I guess he has.

Lynch 2: Vorkuta!

It ain't Vorkuta either.

*claps*

Anyways here is every post Varsoon made in day 2 (A day in which by my counts had ~500 posts)

I believe that means Vorkuta is town?

i think this means anyone rb suspected = town?

i think then this game can be on lock

VOTE: vorkuta

unless we can get a vig confirmation

Why ya'll actin like you don't know how traitor works.

@MOD: Can you explain how the role you just flipped works? kthx

Obv that scum killed RB and didn't realize he was their traitor
If RB didn't know his team's identities, then alignment conclusions can't really be drawn.
Even if he did, I don't think it matters all that much.

I've seen it iterated where Traitor doesn't know team and team knows there is a traitor but not who.

Yeah, I think mods not posting full role PMs and just relying on shorthand is confusing.
Especially since we don't have an agreed-upon nomenclature.
So when I see 'traitor' I just have to try to infer what that means and hope the mod's iteration is the same as the wiki's.

My thoughts are the same as ever. DDO's probably scum. Didn't BEF claim a guilty on you? What happened with that?

P-EDIT:

What's a Normal Rolecop?

VOTE: Dr Do Little

Money,
Mouth,
etc.

It ain't Vorkuta either.

Damn Creature, go be a less mean pokemon again.

varsoon would u like to elaborate on ddl

Dude's scum, what's there to elaborate on?
B-sides, I don't have a ton of great leads otherwise.

Not a fan of Oka proposing a wagon on me with no supporting case and immediately testing the waters by defaulting to Nero
Have some damn gumption of your own, man.

@Oka: Gross.

@DDL: You need to do more to show how BEF is scum in this game.

@Oka: Testing validity instead of making a committing mistake is the sort of self-aware play scum makes.

9 posts. First 3 posts are set up questions. So that’s 6 posts left. He voted DDL, and when asked about why, his response is “because he is.” No push, no explanation, just hi and bye. Zero elaboration. Just questions and shading of people who oppose his slot (Me). His “opposition” is nothing more than a throwaway comment. It serves no purpose for anyone else. He doesn’t have the credibility to say “I’m town so you have to trust me on this one” nor does he elaborate on his beliefs, thus it means nothing. And in a day in which so much transpired, he didn’t comment on most events, including me fighting mbaki, rb crumbs, nothing more than throwaway comments at a time in which Vorkuta was at L1 and was going to get lynched. If he was so sure, why not defend? Point is he didn’t, but he would like us to think that he did.

Lynch 3: The BEF lynch.

He voted to lynch BEF. So yeah. He says he townread him based on gameplay and scumread based on claim, but from a guy who says

with the voyeur + traitor flips this is likely to be a game of little PR powers. does 1-shot neop make sense in this set up?

I think it's far less likely for single shot roles to exist in this game with the presence of voyeur, but I'm not about to spec 'cus mod WIFOM has screwed me in the past.

Regardless
Judge people based on their play rather than the contents of their claim.

And then votes him.

VOTE: BEF

Aight then

Did he really oppose that lynch? If anything he is being contradictory.

Varsoon hasn’t truly opposed a lynch. He hasn’t elaborated on reads really. His reads are lack elaboration so when he complains why we don’t listen to him, it's nothing more than useless AtE. He doesn’t interact unless someone calls him out.

I don't think asking for a catchup is scum-indicative, I just want to see how'd you respond and what your justifications are, which helps me draw a bit more of a bead on how you play, given I don't have much meta experience with you.

VOTE: Dr Dolitte
I do think this doctor has done little.

So when this is the best case I think he has thrown together, there is a problem here. And he has done less than DDL. His stances are paper thin because they lack reasoning. Up until today and maybe later day 4, that’s what Varsoon has been doing. Little.

More parts later when I have time again. I have more stuff.

[mbaki]

No time to read Oka's walls now, I'll get to it later.

It would benefit town to think from a scum mindset at this stage of the game.

With two scum left, they are undoubtedly preparing for LyLo tomorrow. They must instill paranoia, whilst distancing from each other, in order to achieve a swift victory.

This is why resistance to an Oka lynch, and DDL vs mbaki, is concerning.

Varsoon clearly has no team. Creature is Creature. Kmd doesn't look to be setting up for anything.

Oka, DDL, and mbaki, on the otherhand are all distancing, while soft pushing each other.

The scumteam HAS to be within these three.

I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.

[Moongrass]

Kmd doesn't look to be doing anything.

FTFY

Creature, you need to stop being blind to kmd, and Varsoon being town. Have a think about why you're here, and who you've been sheeping.

[Moongrass]

I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.

You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.

[Creature]

you need to stop being blind to kmd

Do you have meta this is town!Kmd and couldn't be scum!Kmd? Don't need to say how.

[Moongrass]

Why do you scumread Oka?

@mbaki.

[Creature]

Like, if you want I can treat Kmd as IC and beg for her to not be lynched the rest of the game if you give me the confidence.

[Moongrass]

you need to stop being blind to kmd

Do you have meta this is town!Kmd and couldn't be scum!Kmd? Don't need to say how.

I have town kmd meta, nothing to compare it to. If you read his ISO, and look at some of his stances, you should see two things:

1. He is not aligned with the traitor, nor does he make sense as a scumbuddy to anyone here.

2. He pushes players, and then gives hard stances that are based on logic I don't see coming from scum.

[mbaki]

I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.

You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.

Are you kidding? Read the thread before you subbed in. I even got the fucking votes, your slot and then Varsoon joined me, Kmd unvoted me to reconsider, and Creature expressed intent as well.

[mbaki]

Why do you scumread Oka?

@mbaki.

I don't have a long case. I'll answer when I have more time.

[mbaki]

you need to stop being blind to kmd

Do you have meta this is town!Kmd and couldn't be scum!Kmd? Don't need to say how.

I have town kmd meta, nothing to compare it to. If you read his ISO, and look at some of his stances, you should see two things:

1. He is not aligned with the traitor, nor does he make sense as a scumbuddy to anyone here.

2. He pushes players, and then gives hard stances that are based on logic I don't see coming from scum.

The first is hilariously assumptive, and the second he does as scum too. A lot. His town and scum games are very similar. I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole because I don't really think he's scum, though.

[Moongrass]

I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.

You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.

Are you kidding? Read the thread before you subbed in. I even got the fucking votes, your slot and then Varsoon joined me, Kmd unvoted me to reconsider, and Creature expressed intent as well.

That does seem like a joke in comparison to your nihilistic attitude when I asked for your cooperation. If you are so sure he is scum, why were you ready to potentially game throw by being stubborn towards someone you supposedly townread?

[Moongrass]

The first is hilariously assumptive, and the second he does as scum too. A lot. His town and scum games are very similar. I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole because I don't really think he's scum, though.

Why do you feel the need to continue to discredit my reads for no purpose?

You are far too manipulative of the game state, and your tone shifts are ridiculous. We lose with you here, town or scum.

VOTE: mbaki

[mbaki]

I am definitely not soft pushing DDL. Oka, sure.

You aren't particularly concerned with being convincing enough to get him lynched. I consider that soft pushing.

Are you kidding? Read the thread before you subbed in. I even got the fucking votes, your slot and then Varsoon joined me, Kmd unvoted me to reconsider, and Creature expressed intent as well.

That does seem like a joke in comparison to your nihilistic attitude when I asked for your cooperation. If you are so sure he is scum, why were you ready to potentially game throw by being stubborn towards someone you supposedly townread?

If you don't care enough to read my posts, then you aren't going to care enough to read my replies. I responded quickly when you did go into my iso and pick out posts.

[mbaki]

The first is hilariously assumptive, and the second he does as scum too. A lot. His town and scum games are very similar. I don't really want to go down this rabbit hole because I don't really think he's scum, though.

Why do you feel the need to continue to discredit my reads for no purpose?

You are far too manipulative of the game state, and your tone shifts are ridiculous. We lose with you here, town or scum.

VOTE: mbaki

Because you are being way too assumptive and Kmd will confirm I'm right. How on Earth is that discrediting? You did the

exact same thing to your townread, Creature

, when he said Oka was posting too much to be scum. You said Kmd was taking stances too strong to be scum. You pointed out to Creature that Oka posts more as scum than as town, and I pointed out Kmd does the exact same shit in his scum game. The difference? Doesn't fit your arrogant confbiased attitude.

It wasn't "discrediting your reads", I fucking agreed with you that Kmd was town. You were wrong about something, and I pointed that out.

[Moongrass]

To progress on my scum traitor crumb theory, where I've already logically deduced that the normal traitor would very likely have crumbed.

There are only two players remaining who could have been crumbed to:

wow im always serious imo

mbaki confirmed scum

friendly reminder that drdolittle is scum

The progression on both of these from rb, as discussed earlier, points strongly to mbaki, but could also be WIFOM for DDL.

i'd lynch like 5 other people before mbaki at this point, even though i think Nero is right his play isn't great i don't think the bar is very high right now

i'd lynch like 5 other people before mbaki at this point, even though i think Nero is right his play isn't great i don't think the bar is very high right now

Who are these 5 mystery scummers?

yyotta
DDL
brighteyedfish
leodanny
vorkuta

if we're lynching for 'fluff content' or lack of content i think these are all more likely to flip scum than mbaki

Remember this. The traitor very likely crumbed, there is no doubt at least one of these two are scum, if not both.

[mbaki]

It's almost like we had this discussion day 2.

[Moongrass]

And I'm done for today.

I'll be back around deadline. Be wary of players trying to instill paranoia, they have to in order to survive as scum. Good luck.

[Varsoon]

Oka, it's cute, and I like it, but your efforts are in vain, dude.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Mbaki
Gonna continue to follow Moongrass here but ayy

[OkaPoka]

Part 3: USB and Voyeurism

Vivace.

This section will cover Varsoon’s claim. I’ve already covered earlier how his explanation about play has shifted, but it's time to put the play under a microscope.

Let’s start with day 4 here, but pre-claim Varsoon.

We should mass claim
I'm fairly certain we might be able to get a lynch in the right direction with that.

So it begins. Varsoon suggest the mass claim, which isn’t the worst idea pre-LYLO. However, I do believe he is scum for reasons laid out before, and well I did have an issue with this part of his suggestion

I've got info that may or may not expose if someone is lying, so I should probably go last or near-last.

I doubt he’s town. I don’t believe he should ever go last, because I think he’s scum and trying to set things up. However the other important thing to note here is that last part. He claims to have info that could expose a liar. This is essential.

I challenge Varsoon’s credibility. And well, he offers his new compromise:

Anyway, since I'm being browbeaten here;
I will only claim after Creature claims.
Creature needs to claim next.

Creature always goes before me, no matter what.

Note that he wants CREATURE ← Yes that guy, to go before him as his only prerequisite for his “compromise” idea. That’s his compromise. Let’s hold onto that idea as well as the idea that he can expose liars with his supposed claim.

I'm Town Universal Backup.
I inherited Nero's Town Voyeur role and used it on Creature on N3.

I'll hold my result until after everyone else has claimed.

Main reason I played very cautiously early on was because I didn't want to be killed but still wanted to be suspected enough to be kept around for a lynch.
I was hoping to get something good like cop but eeeh.

And here is the claim directly after Creature’s claim.

Well, I wanted to claim last and have Creature go right before me, but doing it this way means that now Creature's stuck to his claim instead of being able to lie about his role after I claim my result, if that makes sense.

His explanation as to why.

Oh, my result was nothing.
No one visited Creature.

hey moongrass if you are reading this next post you make better have "chicken pot pie is very good" because I feel like you aren't reading these posts

His result.

Okay if you haven’t understood why this is wrong and scummy, here’s why.

Let’s say we are Town Voyeur here. And we only have one result on Person X. Based on the mechanics of a Voyeur, it catches the actions performed on Person X, it won’t be able to catch anything really from Person X. No result would be the closest thing, suggesting either ascetics or commuters or even roleblocks. These things muddy the water. However, it would be clear on other actions. Like a protection, investigation, killing, etc. These things aren’t muddy. If someone lies here, it’s clear. So the best way to catch a lie with voyeur is basically checking the night actions of others except Person X. Of course I disallowed that, as Varsoon would like to repeat again and again. But I want to remind everyone, that the Creature claim before he claims was HIS idea. That was his suggestion for a compromise, the slightly less optimal play. However, this is in fact the least optimal way to catch a lie with Voyeurs. He needs to catch actions performed on Person X rather than elsewhere. His play doesn’t line up with his role. Compounded with the idea that his stated goal of mass claiming was to catch a liar, so this idea was already existent in his mind, means that he wasn’t thinking like a Voyeur. Or, he isn’t a Voyeur.

Now his explanation makes no sense. He saw that Creature had nobody perform any actions on him, Creature isn’t stuck to any claim really. Creature could say he travelled to heaven and hell and back and Varsoon wouldn’t know. Creature isn’t forced anywhere, precisely because the way Varsoon ordered the compromise claim order means that he can’t catch a liar. Because he wasn’t thinking like a Voyeur. He isn’t a Voyeur.

[northsidegal]

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