Micro 838: A Miccro Normal - Game Over


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Post Post #875 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:43 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 872, GuiltyLion wrote:
In post 787, Aristophanes wrote:
Oh, yeah, you definitely misunderstood my post!

I was saying my meta has changed over the years and I now just lurk a lot which is bad but oh well. :lol:

Glad this was a misunderstanding :)
also I still want to talk about this

you literally said
"Anyway, it used to be a scum meta but is now just the way I play. I know it's annoying and unhelpful,
but I play the long game and that's part of the reason.
"

that is openly acknowledging that you are watering down your town game to the benefit of your scumgame, sir!
Nah, I enjoy lategame better so my earlygame sucks. Part of the reason my scum meta has leaked into my town meta is because I am simply less engaged until the game has progressed to a certain point! :)
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Post Post #876 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:43 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Fun game and a good Scum PT read!
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Post Post #877 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:44 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 869, Alisae wrote:I just liked the fact I spotted town ari when I did tbh I don't really care about anything else
<3

You really impressed me tbh :)
Once I got my scumread off your slit this was solved! Sad I got ML'd tho
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Post Post #878 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:57 pm

Post by Persivul »

Two games (other I was town) finished today and both heavily favored town. Really turning me off from this site. No point in playing anything but opens.
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Post Post #879 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:05 pm

Post by Alisae »

In post 878, Persivul wrote:Two games (other I was town) finished today and both heavily favored town. Really turning me off from this site. No point in playing anything but opens.
there’s a reason for this.
MS strongly believes that towns suck. So to deal with this, they give towns way too much.
What might be happening is there’s a shift in the meta where towns are actually getting better so they don’t need so much power.
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Post Post #880 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:10 pm

Post by singletonking »

GG we win
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Post Post #881 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:11 pm

Post by Alisae »

In post 880, singletonking wrote:GG we win
no we didn’t win
Our jailkeeper won
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Post Post #882 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:12 pm

Post by singletonking »

In post 879, Alisae wrote:
In post 878, Persivul wrote:Two games (other I was town) finished today and both heavily favored town. Really turning me off from this site. No point in playing anything but opens.
there’s a reason for this.
MS strongly believes that towns suck. So to deal with this, they give towns way too much.
What might be happening is there’s a shift in the meta where towns are actually getting better so they don’t need so much power.
I remember RC mention somewhere that towns needed to be loaded with power
The last micro normal I played that RC designed town was also heavily stacked
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Post Post #883 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:12 pm

Post by Alisae »

In post 882, singletonking wrote:
In post 879, Alisae wrote:
In post 878, Persivul wrote:Two games (other I was town) finished today and both heavily favored town. Really turning me off from this site. No point in playing anything but opens.
there’s a reason for this.
MS strongly believes that towns suck. So to deal with this, they give towns way too much.
What might be happening is there’s a shift in the meta where towns are actually getting better so they don’t need so much power.
I remember RC mention somewhere that towns needed to be loaded with power
The last micro normal I played that RC designed town was also heavily stacked
Coming from RC, I am not surprised, he tends to think towns suck.
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Post Post #884 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:18 pm

Post by Alisae »

However unlike RC, I don’t care.
A 2-shot BP in a micro is just not acceptable
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Post Post #885 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:24 pm

Post by singletonking »

But yeah the Neapolitan is unfair for scum with BP in the setup
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Post Post #886 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:32 pm

Post by Alisae »

I don’t care about the Nea

the 2-shot BP is oppressive against scum its actually really gamechanging if you think about it.
1-shot is easy.
2-shot takes way too many resources and commitment to deal with
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Post Post #887 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:33 pm

Post by Alisae »

Well I kinda do considering giving a Nea is basically an insult.
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Post Post #888 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:34 pm

Post by Alisae »

But then again, lolbalance anyone?
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Post Post #889 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:07 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

In post 888, Alisae wrote:But then again, lolbalance anyone?
:lol: <3
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Post Post #890 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:08 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Honestly my setups are usually townsided but I usually cheer for scum
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Post Post #891 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:12 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Interesting scum still wil 2/3 of my modded game history. Now some of those were predesigned opend but still. That means something!

I literally had a game with like 3 IC like roles and scum almost won!
Does this make me bad at setuo design? Maybe. But also mayne not :P
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Post Post #892 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:35 pm

Post by Alisae »

RC wrote:Just tell them I 100% stand by the setup and despite the comments made about me making town favored setups scum have won the majority of the normals that I have designed or reviewed and on top of that a recent setup I got shit for with a micro with loyal doc and vig that was called super townsided had been previously won by scum
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Post Post #893 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:43 pm

Post by Alisae »

also c/p'd from discord
RC wrote:Also c/p that the addition of a 1 shot bulletproof to the town is a significant Nerf for town, not a buff. Even the second shot is somewhat questionable because it hurts the credibility of the claim. The existence of the bulletproof means that the jailkeeper results are essentially meaningless since scum could simply have shot the bulletproof. There's no way for scum to get guiltied period and no way for even a soft guilty without the 2-shot bulletproof being already killed by some sort. I've run setups closer to 60 than 40% town winrate: this was definitely not one of them
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Post Post #894 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:49 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

I said almost exactly that in the deadthread! Really enjoyed the setup! :)
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Post Post #895 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:53 pm

Post by Aristophanes »

Subject: Micro 838: Dead Thread
Aristophanes wrote:This setup is actually pretty neat! The Neo has a 50/50 chance, if they get a positive result, of pinging the town's JK and if the right player makes that kill it is practically guaranteed. The JK doesn't give hard innos or guilties. The BP getting shot can also make the JK falsly claim a protection which can incrminate them and possibly cause a town 1v1.

I think the role interactions are pretty clever tbh and relatively balanced, if not tipping slightly to scum.

2-shot BP is also like, unlikely so claiming that could cause a lynch or a 1v1 with JK because having both sounds highly unlikely.

I like the setup a lot, Micc :)
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Post Post #896 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:06 pm

Post by RadiantCowbells »

If you think this setup is super townsided it probably means you don't understand the fact that setups are more than the sum of their parts and that the bulletproof being there is a significant nerf to the power of the jailkeeper.

Persivul, sometimes you gotta look at what you could have done better instead of blaming external factors
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Post Post #897 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:31 pm

Post by Persivul »

In post 896, RadiantCowbells wrote:If you think this setup is super townsided it probably means you don't understand the fact that setups are more than the sum of their parts and that the bulletproof being there is a significant nerf to the power of the jailkeeper.

Persivul, sometimes you gotta look at what you could have done better instead of blaming external factors
Yeah, you're right. We should have created a bunch of mislynches.

Oh yeah, we did that. Even after Alisae solved the game, we did that.

A setup along these lines that would be better balanced would be:

1X BP - (Maybe you didn't notice, but THIS IS A FUCKING MICRO. A 2X BP has no place in a game that's likely only going 3 or 4 nights anyway.)
2X JK
vs.
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Post Post #898 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 10:32 pm

Post by Persivul »

In post 884, Alisae wrote:A 2-shot BP in a micro is just not acceptable
QFT
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Post Post #899 (ISO) » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:46 pm

Post by Alisae »

RC did explain it to me.
I get the logic behind it.
I don't agree with it.
But I get it.
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