Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[SaintAngelDFE]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.

[the worst]

vote count 1.07

hearthstone1235 (0) :
YellowSnow (1) : volxen
L84Dnr (0) :
DoubtingThomas (0) :
Roo (4) : brassherald, L84Dnr, SaintAngelDFE, YellowSnow
SaintAngelDFE (2) : xwing, Roo
volxen (0) :
xwing (1) : hearthstone1235
brassherald (1) : DoubtingThomas

not voting:

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- xwing regular v/la over weekends
- quack

[brassherald]

UNVOTE:

Roo is L-1, I'm not willing to maintain that this early.

[brassherald]

UNVOTE:

Roo is L-1, I'm not willing to maintain that this early.

Was*

[L84Dnr]

Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.

VOTE: Roo

I figured, just thought it was an amusing moment to read "quack" after what you said.

What are your thoughts on the game so far?

I'm enjoying the game quite a bit, actually! Most of my experience is with town of salem, but I was referred here by a friend that used to play on these forums.

I'm definitely starting to agree with the push on Roo, he hasn't said anything as of late.

VOTE: Roo

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

If the biggest knock against me right now is that I haven't posted much today, I apologize. I did answer the questions directed at me.

If anyone has anything in particular they'd like me to address, I'd be happy to

Why so quiet?

Just a busy day yesterday and today at work. Didn't have a chance to check the site since I posted yesterday at lunch

Fair enough. RL happens.

UNVOTE:

[xwing]

how about a yellow-saint scum team?

[L84Dnr]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.

Same here. I'm used to a 24 hour day cycle, which is much faster paced. Posting will help you with that.

Right now I have to agree with xwing.

VOTE: SaintAngelDFE

So tell us, what are your reads? On Day 1 they're always weak, so no worries there.

[xwing]

EBWOP (acronym meaning can be found on brass' link):
sorry i was stuck on page 5, didnt notice we were on page 6 already so i missed a couple of posts..
130 was directed at brass..

@brass, @yellow: what is town of salem like? is it not a forum mafia game as well?

[L84Dnr]

how about a yellow-saint scum team?

I have a tough time spotting scum on Day 1, much less the entire team.

YellowSnow strikes me as too bold for n00bscum. They tend to be more withdrawn and get lynched for trying to fly under the radar. He's made a lot of noise. Granted, it isn't about much, but that's exactly the point. He's making a whole lot of noise for no gain as scum. Could be a good act but I'm doubting it. I'm giving him a slight town lean because of that.

[xwing]

fair enough with regards to yellow..
l8 is my strongest townread..
saint is obviously my scum read hence the vote..

[YellowSnow]

Town of Salem is a chat based mafia game with about 30 minute games.

[YellowSnow]

@yellow:
okay..but we do have SEs who can help out with this as well..so that shouldn't be so concerning? besides, day1 lasts like 10 days so the IC can dish out a lot of info by then, dont you think?

Maybe I just consider myself a reasonably nice guy. The IC is doing the game a favor, I think I can do him a favor by not lyching him the first sign of trouble.

[brassherald]

how about a yellow-saint scum team?

It's possible, I guess, but I'm not doing a full team guess yet. There are people I find suspicious and people I find less suspicious. I don't really look at associatives until I know one scum.

I also do think I might have confused Roo with someone else earlier since I did mention something about his reaction to my wagon, but I think he was actually on the other side of the conversation than what I had thought.

[brassherald]

By the way, another difference between this and town of Salem is that in Town of Salem pretty much everyone is a PR. Also, mafiascum has not lost all the information on file about people at this point.

[volxen]

Roo, you're being unusually quiet. Perhaps a little pressure on your wagon will get your tongue wagging.

VOTE: Roo

hey l8, what do you think of the rest of the player list?

Not a lot to go on yet. Still early in Day 1.

- Roo's still being pretty quiet despite having two votes on him. He also has a comfy spot on Brass' wagon.
- You haven't posted a whole lot either. And you have a similarly comfy position on Brass' wagon.
- DT has been more active but much of that has been fluff.
-

Volxen had an odd reaction to YellowSnow's suggestion that claiming to enjoy playing scum might make you more likely to be scum. YellowSnow's comment clearly wasn't a policy lynch, though I agree that it's a poor reason to suspect that somebody might be scum.

- YellowSnow has been pretty vocal and visible in his argument, so weak town lean.
- Brass has also been visible, but that's his job as IC regardless of alignment.
- Null on Heartstone and Saint.

All weak reads at the moment.

The real problem is that we have too many singleton wagons. No pressure from those.

Why was it an "odd" reaction? I was just explaining that some people do prefer to play scum and will be open about that fact even in games where they are town. As Brass pointed out, town/scum roles are assigned randomly, so someone who loves playing scum is still going to roll town in the vast majority of their games. So there really is no reason for people to not be honest about what alignment they prefer playing.

I, for example, really enjoy playing both town and scum, because I feel that playing both alignments helps me to grow more as a player as opposed to always playing the same alignment. For example, playing scum helps you to improve as a scumhunter (townie), because you start to pick up on more common (and advanced) scum tactics after employing them yourself firsthand. And playing town helps you to improve as scum, because it's fairly difficult to convincingly fake scumhunt and gamesolve unless you have experience doing the real thing.

In any case, based on what you wrote in post 91, it seems that you did agree with my overall argument, except for my usage of the phrase "policy lynch". If we are talking about something along the lines of, "Player X is a really good scum player, we should just auto lynch him today in case he is scum" -- that absolutely would meet the criteria of a policy lynch in my opinion, because it would be advocating a lynch on someone for the sole reason that they are good at scum -- not because of any evidence of them being scum in the current ongoing game. Maybe that wasn't exactly what Yellowstone had in mind with post 47, but in that post he talked about "dangerous scum being more likely to be lynched on that basis alone", which at a minimum is bordering on a policy lynch.

Is the only thing that you found "odd" about my reaction the fact that I used the phrase "policy lynch"?

[L84Dnr]

Is the only thing that you found "odd" about my reaction the fact that I used the phrase "policy lynch"?

That was it. I agree with your reasoning completely up to that point. There just seems to be a huge gulf between suggesting that something somebody said might be scummy a bit scummy and a policy lynch. Seemed out of place to me but like I said, these are weak Day 1 reads, so I'm reaching.

[SaintAngelDFE]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.

Same here. I'm used to a 24 hour day cycle, which is much faster paced. Posting will help you with that.

Right now I have to agree with xwing.

VOTE: SaintAngelDFE

So tell us, what are your reads? On Day 1 they're always weak, so no worries there.

Right now? My reads are that xwing is likely town, he is jumping around a lot and searching from information.
Brass makes me nervous because he is experienced, I'm not sure I'm ready or even able to make an accurate claim on him yet.
The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed. It was a reach and I should have voiced it.
I don't have too much of a read on Volxen based on similar issues as Brass, however I feel a little more sure that he's town.
Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.
DoubtingThomas is talkative and definitely trying to push forward to get information, but he hasn't really pushed for any. I think that's suspicious, but like I said I'm still learning.

My suspects right now are between Volxen and DT. VOTE: volxen

[brassherald]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..

For the most part I'm trying to figure out how forum mafia works honestly, as stated before I've only really played Town of Salem which is much more fast paced than this, trying to learn as I go. I'm not trying to lead for any lynching based on the fact that I'm not sure how well any scum reading I might be able to pick up would actually be.

Same here. I'm used to a 24 hour day cycle, which is much faster paced. Posting will help you with that.

Right now I have to agree with xwing.

VOTE: SaintAngelDFE

So tell us, what are your reads? On Day 1 they're always weak, so no worries there.

Right now? My reads are that xwing is likely town, he is jumping around a lot and searching from information.
Brass makes me nervous because he is experienced, I'm not sure I'm ready or even able to make an accurate claim on him yet.
The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed. It was a reach and I should have voiced it.
I don't have too much of a read on Volxen based on similar issues as Brass, however I feel a little more sure that he's town.
Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.
DoubtingThomas is talkative and definitely trying to push forward to get information, but he hasn't really pushed for any. I think that's suspicious, but like I said I'm still learning.

My suspects right now are between Volxen and DT. VOTE: volxen

Wait, Volxen you are more sure is town than me, and he's a top suspect?

Your reads don't match your vote, explain ASAP

[hearthstone1235]

(Going to take a while to catch up)

Spoiler: xwing

Wagoning does equate to voting. I do tend to say lynching a lot when I mean "lynch voting" by it. I thought it was clear from my message.

Or by "lynch" do you mean "lynch votes" as well? I'm pretty sure that you can't wagon without voting. What did you expect from suggesting to bandwagon brass? If another person hops on the bandwagon then they'd be at L-1 so early in the game.

a wagon does not result in a lynch if there are not enough votes on it..
a wagon is indeed needed to get a lynch, but will not always result in one (see above)..
i dont understand what you mean by "lynch vote" compared to just a "vote"..

a lynch vote is exactly the same as a vote. What I was saying that I sometimes mean "vote" when I mention the word "lynch". Because I always thought that the word "lynch" has at least 2 meanings (vote or kill)

look back at this:

"Let's wagon the IC" has similar meaning to "Let's

lynch

the IC" which implies that you want at least one more person after you to

lynch

the IC which would put them in L-1.

I think it is pretty much obvious that the blue word means "vote" instead of "kill". Though now that I look back at it, the red word seems closer to "kill" than "vote". (However, the intended meaning here is "vote") Which is my bad, I'll take care in the future to say "vote" instead of "lynch".

That should clear things up a little bit. Did you want another person to vote for the IC after you? When you said "Let's wagon the IC" were you meaning it in the literal sense that you want more people to vote for the IC?

i'll throw the question back at you..what do you think can be achieved by forming a wagon? i even specifically chose the IC, who is the most experienced player among all of us..
my action loses it's power by me needing to explain it..

Early bandwagons can lead to a lot of discussion and stir things up to start off to a fruitful day 1. which is definitely profitable for town. Unless someone is in danger of being lynched.

I suppose if you were trying to do that, then

1. "Let's wagon the IC" wasn't meant to be taken literally but it means that you intend to put another vote on brass causing a bandwagon. While not necessarily asking someone to follow suit, and if someone does bring the IC to L-1 or to a hammer even. It would be quite obvious they were scum.

2. Stating that it is L-2 wouldn't make sense along with "Let's wagon".

And that's pretty much seals the case. I think that this scenario is more likely (as stated in my previous post) and it would make more sense.

But why would you target the IC specifically? I think that out of everyone, the IC is the most knowledgeable about this tactic, that talking about it wouldn't even matter, as evidenced from their reaction.

i know this isnt addressed to me, so im just gonna ask the last part..
do you mean if i indicated that it was L-2, it would be fine with you?
so is your issue with my vote being the unannounced L-2? or the appeal to wagon the IC?

I should probably have addressed it to you directly. Glad you included it.
If you mentioned it was L-2 at that moment. I probably wouldn't have given it that much attention. Though I don't think your vote would've made a lot of sense then.

huh..if by your definition it wasn't scummy, why would you want me to vote for it, when i said it was reachy, but i didnt say it was scummy?
reachy reasoning for me means it's a stretch..
so for me yes your reasoning on suspecting volxen based on 7-minute joke is reachy, but i didnt find it scummy at that point, hence the "meh" comment..
whether you are trying to get someone lynched or not doesn't make it any more or less reachy..

By my definition, it wasn't reachy. But by my definition, what is reachy is slightly scummy, judging by the following quote:

I think that the definition of reachy is "Use small cases in order to get someone lynched(killed) without proper reasons", or "Trying to find any reasons however small to get a specific person to get lynched". I consider that as

leaning on the scummy side

.

But since you said that it was reachy, I assumed that you thought it was scummy. So, I was wondering why were you willingly ignoring something scummy so early in the game (when there's usually not a lot of stuff to do)...

[hearthstone1235]

@l8:
i feel like saint's got no original reasoning, mainly pushing what others have stated..
his first vote on hearth was echoing what i thought..
his second vote was on blank (not sure if it technically counted coz of the formatting, but the intent was there), who was inactive/site flaked..
his third vote on roo was echoing what others were saying..
he's not even engaging tried to engage them..
so his votes also feel opportunistic and just wanting a lynch instead of trying to sort..
.

Would be nice if you address that post @Saint.

[hearthstone1235]

screw it, he already did. didn't see that post

[hearthstone1235]

UNVOTE: xwing

Wait, Volxen you are more sure is town than me, and he's a top suspect?

Your reads don't match your vote, explain ASAP

+1

@DoubtingThomas, you were quite enthusiastic at the start of the game, where are you now?

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

Do you think that's enough to warrant a L-1 so early?

[xwing]

@saint: please address post 142..

@hearth:
the purpose of the wagon on the IC is to see who would be willing to jump there when i never provided any reasoning..i intentionally did not explain because i didn't want to give away that it's a test if scum would pile on it..
this is a common tactic in this site, as vote count analysis (VCA) can be used to see who might be scum, though im not particularly good at this..
brass is IC and experienced enough to identify what it was, hence he's not really panicking, so it's not really a pressure on brass, but a test on the rest..
i chose the IC because mostly in newbie games, new players would likely think highly of the IC, so they would more likely wagon that as scum, i guess..

so roo being placed at L-1, means there is *likely to be at least one scum* on his wagon..(not an exact science, but the concept holds)

@volxen: how does your reads look like now, would be nice if you could include a short explanation too, thanks

[hearthstone1235]

*Order Taken From Playerlist*

hearthstone1235 - not really a fan of anything hearth has done. First talking about the delay in Volxen's posts seemed like an odd thing to me. Voting xwing for the "lets lynch the IC" comment felt like another stretch. Also something about 78 doesn't sit well with me either. This feels a lot like someone trying to find fire where there is no smoke.
YellowSnow - lots of posts, not a lot of substance. Null/town read. Eyebrow definitely raised at not wanting to lynch the IC on day 1
L84Dnr - town read, came in and has been engaged given fair reads and asking questions
DoubtingThomas - completely null at this point, nothing to go off of
SaintAngelDFE - again completely null, no reads or anything yet from this player
volxen - town read, like the questions in 35 and 74
xwing - town, to this point has had the most activity directed at scumhunting
brassherald - slight town, lots of IC posts so far but also nothing jumps out as too suspicious yet


feel like pressure could be applied elsewhere to help move things along. Also SaintAngel says I haven't said anything, but his posts aren't exactly bountiful to this point so

VOTE: SaintAngel

Can you elaborate a little on what exactly you mean by "Finding fire where there is no smoke" because I could interpret it in at least 2 different ways.
What do you think of YellowSnow putting the L-1 on you?
Why do you think brassherald is slight town? Is the only reason for that is because nothing jumps out as suspicious yet?

Appreciate the readlist.

[L84Dnr]

I don't have too much of a read on Volxen based on similar issues as Brass, however I feel a little more sure that he's town.

My suspects right now are between Volxen and DT. VOTE: volxen

Saint, you really need to explain voting one of your town leans.