Micro 838: A Miccro Normal - Game Over

[Persivul]

I get the logic behind it.
I don't agree with it.

Same here.

[Aristophanes]

Pers, consider if the BP was lynched early or the JK was killed ( oth possible once you know they're there) or the JK shot missing. You would have won this multiple times over!

We were lucky to have good players in both alits and they did well with the roles they got! This game would have been wholly different with different players and I think acum win out more than you believe.

[Xtoxm]

and the mods keep trying to defend these ridiculous setups
its to the point that we have to play open or mountainous games to have any hope of balance

[Persivul]

and the mods keep trying to defend these ridiculous setups
its to the point that we have to play open or mountainous games to have any hope of balance

Yeah, I'm hesitant to join closed games now. And as you know, that's not just me complaining as scum, I'm saying the same in a game in which I was town. Town won, but I don't feel good about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

and the mods keep trying to defend these ridiculous setups
its to the point that we have to play open or mountainous games to have any hope of balance

Sorry but my sympathy here is minimal.

For all this whining about townsided closed setups I'm fairly sure scum still win more often than town in both my games and games in general. When I design setups I try to design them so that if one wolf absolutely pops off they can win the game for their team no matter what. I believe this game had that potential. I think people are quick to say that "wolves outplayed town" without having a true conception of the fact that it's really really easy to outplay an average town on MS.

For games to be balanced town has to sometimes win just off of PRs and that's part of the game and part of being a good scum is working around it.

[RadiantCowbells]

And alisae you baited me into replacing into your fucked up 2-7 nightless with tons of town power on top of that including a deathproof (Maria's role) a jailkeeper an autowin mechanism for town etc. That game was legit ~15-20 win equity for scum.

Like I'm fine just saying I understand balance on MS better than any of the people criticizing me and leaving it at that. If you enjoy opens more, fine. Play what you want.

[Micc]

I see this setup as being similar to Jailkeeper+Tracker vs Rolecop in the Newbie queue. The town has a ton of power for a micro sized game and all the scum power is aimed at finding the town power. It leads to games where if the scumteam fails to find the town power they get behind despite the mislynches they’ve earned.

The best way for the scum team to mitigate that is to force counter claims and win them. In this game the scum team chose not to claim power during mass claim. Presumably they thought the town’s overall power was weak enough that they could still fight through. Turns out that wasn’t the case and they lost because of it.

At the end of the day balance is hard. It’s the biggest reason I sick mostly to newbie or other open setups as a mod, and really as a player too.

[Alisae]

And alisae you baited me into replacing into your fucked up 2-7 nightless with tons of town power on top of that including a deathproof (Maria's role) a jailkeeper an autowin mechanism for town etc. That game was legit ~15-20 win equity for scum.

lolbalance?

[RadiantCowbells]

I see this setup as being similar to Jailkeeper+Tracker vs Rolecop in the Newbie queue. The town has a ton of power for a micro sized game and all the scum power is aimed at finding the town power. It leads to games where if the scumteam fails to find the town power they get behind despite the mislynches they’ve earned.

Bluntly I'm failing to see the similarities

1) Jailkeeper / Tracker every night that goes on the town gets more information from both of those power roles
Jailkeeper / 2-Shot Bulletproof whether a kill occurs or not the town gets 0 information about what happened at night.

In the aforementioned newbie setup, if a kill goes off you have 2 players confirmed as not having committed the nightkill + the 2 prs leaving you with a pool of 3 players that contains at least 1 scum
in this game, kill goes off, kill doesn't go off, it says virtually nothing about whether any individual is scum or not.

Scum don't need to find town power in this setup any more than they need it in JK/6nilla/2goon.

[RadiantCowbells]

This game was in my mind balanced around scum frequently having to deal with a mislynch being created by the amount of kill prevention. I think that is fine setup wise
I think that is is perfectly reasonable for scum to have to mislynch half of the non-unlynchablePR townies to sweep in a game where town aren't getting any real information that a player is +equity scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I would basically never set up a CC battle in this game as scum. Jailkeeper gets nightkilled, 2-shot bulletproof gets mislynched or brought to endgame.
it's unfortunate that scum kept having their actions fail, but that was a misplay by scum.

notably the neapolitan onto bulletproof interaction you complained about was heavily balanced by the fact that the scum proceeding to shoot the BP then almost always causes the jailkeeper to out and frequently claim a result on a townie

[RadiantCowbells]

also xtoxm mountainous games are like... ridiculously scumsided

so if that's your standard for balance then yeah ok i guess you won't be happy with normal games

[TTTT]

the real game always happens in the post-game

[TTTT]

Thanks Micc for doing a great job modding!

Thanks RC for designing the game!

I'm not smart enough to argue the merits of the setup. I also don't really care. It was fun just to play with this playerlist, even if I was scum.

[Alisae]

yeet I had fun

[Aristophanes]

I also had fun! Good playerlist

[Micc]