Newbie 1913 - game over!!

[the worst]

vote count 1.11

hearthstone1235 (0) :
YellowSnow (1) : volxen
L84Dnr (0) :
DoubtingThomas (1) : SaintAngelDFE
Roo (1) : YellowSnow
SaintAngelDFE (3) : xwing, Roo, brassherald
volxen (2) : L84Dnr, hearthstone1235
xwing (0) :
brassherald (1) : DoubtingThomas

not voting:

with 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

day one will end automatically in (expired on 2019-01-30 14:00:00) or sooner if a lynch is achieved by majority.


mod notes:
- xwing regular v/la over weekends
- xwing is also coincidentally v/la this Monday
- quack

[brassherald]

Just a note while I'm thinking of it, one of the best things to do to hunt people you may be wary of, perhaps people who are particularly good at scum as was the discussion before, is to actually look into their past games, known as metas on site.

Now, using their meta, you can learn what they do as town and what is in what's called their "scum range". Basically, scum has the task of faking their game, and even the best scum players will not be able to perfectly emulate a town game, as far as I know, maybe someone can.

That being said, it's a good tool to go back and read previous games, and sometimes you'll see me ask others for their previous scum games to really evaluate.

[hearthstone1235]

Would probably put my vote/unvote when I'm done reading stuff cause reasons.

[hearthstone1235]

I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whatever

I think it is better to take stuff at logic > emotions because emotions can cloud one's judgement

*snip*

DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.

Yea, totally agree with that. Dunno about the case you made about you being very good at scum and bad at town so since you're playing bad this game therefore you're town. But I agree that you should really step your game up, starting by telling what you think of the game so far and of each player (Dunno if you have done that in the 5 following pages or not). I'll probably have more trouble reading you then because your case has a lot of wifom and meta I think. two things that I completely suck at reading. You are going to be on my radar though.

Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment

Hmm, that would make some sense.

Appreciate that you took the time and effort to answer my question.

Comments in *

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I feel like Roo is trying to active lurk through day 1.

How so? Can you elaborate?

"Would probably join in if I have nothing better to do" -- what is that even supposed to mean exactly? What would be the "better" thing that would keep you from voting for me? It sounds like you don't really seem to care all that much who gets wagoned.

What is the most useful tool that we have and can only be used only once a time? Voting
I suppose you could read it as "Would probably join in if I have no better target for my vote"

Since I was still re-reading, I was wondering if I'd see anything else that would give me a better target for my vote.

I was waiting for some people to talk more so that I obtain more accurate reads for them. Saint and DT have a lot of attention on them right now, so they are pressured to talk already. But you have just been lying there in the background.

I'm a bit wary of the fact that you voted for me and at the same time said that "any reads I have are likely weak", because it comes across like you are potentially trying to give yourself an out/excuse in the event that you are on someone's wagon who gets mislynched and flips green.

In any case, L84Dnr gave his reason for voting for me. Do you have a reason of your own for voting for me, or are you just sheeping L84Dnr here?

I voted you because you haven't been posting for a while and I wanted to see more posts from you. Which is the same reason L8 voted for you. I didn't think L8's vote would be enough. Because if one player has only one vote on them. I see it a lot that they just ignore it.

You probably wouldn't be my final vote for today I think. depending on what happens next. The day is still long, we should extend it as long as possible to gain more information. (And also so that I can get better reads because I'm unsatisfied with what I have there). The reason I said "any reads I have are likely weak" is a response to Roo's question, which I decided to postpone until I finish reading everything and decide on my vote.

[hearthstone1235]

see post 206 re townslip..

brass is active and engaged..
l8 is actively scumhunting..
volxen might be town for *reasons*..

i think your brass case might be a reach..there are other players here who are way scummier (e.g. saint-yellow), and your post haven't really convinced me to change my mind about brass..i think it's also more indicative for town to want more quality over quantity in posts, shows me that he wants to leave little room for misrep and fluff and makes your points easier to absorb..

you can ignore post 205, i was only trying to illustrate to brass what i wanted to accomplish using the quote function, and if he knew a better way..

@yellow: DT has now openly claimed he's good as scum..soooo what do you think about that?
@brass: well dt did make a good point..why am i town?

[hearthstone1235]

Sorry for the above empty post, I was trying to sort quotes in different tabs and accidentally sent the wrong tab

UNVOTE: Doubting thomas

personallyi dont like this unvote

he voted me in an RVS, but then immediately posts 'unvote' to vote someone to get on a wagon?

Dunno if it was immediately. There is 8 hour gap, which means that I logged in 8 hours later. noticed that the game didn't go anywhere. decided to give it a little push. Also why didn't you notice my reason for voting volsen? and the conversation that happened later on? you should read the entire argument then give a thought.

@DT Self-meta (what you were doing in your post 186) is one of the least reliable sources of informations, even when the player is town. It's so poor that using it is frequently regarded as a scumtell.

Okay, good to know.

I would definitely use my meta on myself so I am not sure what the point of this post is. Again, seems like you are trying to twist words to make me look worse even though the self meta was necessary part of the answer to the question he asked

Hmm, I suppose you would. I actually didn't think you'd use your meta at all. My intentions were more under the lines of "If you were someone like me who doesn't necessarily know DT's meta". It appears that I was too happy with the big post to question whether the use of meta was correct or wrong or whether it was needed in the first place.

volxen might be town for *reasons*..

Wait what? Why is volxen town for reasons? that doesn't make sense, please elaborate.

[hearthstone1235]

Finally made it to the end.

xwing has already answered last question in last post

@Brass:

"IC_Question": What if scum plays exactly as they would if they were town? Wouldn't it be impossible to catch them?

@brass, Do you have anything to say/any reads? You haven't been generating a lot of in-game content so far, if any.

I play things close to the chest early for sure. That being said, I random voted Roo early because it was early to type, but I haven't liked his i

nteractions

too much and so I haven't moved my vote.

The super defensive response to someone asking about an L-2 wagon on me makes me uneasy.

What kind of interactions didn't you like, it implies that there is more than one interaction, although he only posted 3 posts at that time.

I also do think I might have confused Roo with someone else earlier since I did mention something about his reaction to my wagon, but I think he was actually on the other side of the conversation than what I had thought.

When did you do that? Can you elaborate more?

Still didn't answer those

@DT, still didn't answer those:

Also, how about you? What are your thoughts on the game so far? What do you think of Roo and Volxen in particular?

The following was also ignored by Saint and Yellow

The vote on Roo was more or less trying to see if he could have been trying to talk to other mafia before he responded? But unfortunately the response he gave seemed genuine and not rushed.

It was a reach and I should have voiced it.

Yellow is neutral to me, I'm not picking up on anything going either direction.

Don't you find it suspicious that Yellow hasn't done that much?
Can you elaborate on the red part?

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.

VOTE: roo

What did you think of the wagon on brass?

It would be great if you'd share what do you think of everyone so far.

[hearthstone1235]

volxen started to be more active and productive so i'm withdrawing my vote because it has served its purpose UNVOTE: volxen

What troubles me about all of this is that if you are scum, everything you are doing is fake, including your reads, so it makes sense that could mess up your reads/vote like this (since it would all be fake anyways if you are scum). If you are town then you really, really botched up that entire post (141) along with your vote. So why is this more likely to be an honest mistake from town!Saint rather than a scumslip from scum!Saint?

I think this is a fine case on saint. But from what I've read from saint so far, it seems like he doesn't give a lot of importance to this game, or to scumhunting. I think. His reads seem rather rushed and he isn't really making a lot of effort. Is there's any chance this situation will improve, Saint? For me, mafia takes a loot of concentration, it takes me more than a hour each session or so. I'm not sure about other players and I might be overdoing it a bit but I still think it is hard to multi-task mafia.

[brassherald]

At an interview right now, sorry I missed those questions I will get them today, promise

[hearthstone1235]

@DT

#207, Sounds like a post I would make. so I'll be giving it some towncreds
#208, 209. I like those posts.

I also want to like xswing for being nice to me trying to catch me up with stuff I might be lacking as a newbie

Where is that?

My reaction was way out of proportion to what Brass said,

so I made myself get in the spotlight

This gives slight scummy tone.

Still can't read DT that good. as it is now, he wouldn't be my day 1 lynch.

post-edit: @brass okay, appreciate it

[hearthstone1235]

I think I'll be back to saint in a bit, I wouldn't mind him being day 1 lynch though I still want the day to be extended more, there's still more stuff to do.

@YellowSnow

First 16 posts are basically fillery with little to no substance.

between roo and brass I like the roo wagon better. At least brass has been helpful.
VOTE: roo

As mentioned, I don't like this post. Does this mean that you'd probably join the brass wagon if there's no roo wagon?
You didn't give a reason for voting roo as well.

Yes, I knew. I thought that was allowed. I put my vote on who I think is scum. I've given plenty of reads.

This time I actually looked back and noticed that he didn't make ANY reads whatsoever, before this post

Brass said something similar about not liking to take a lot of time reading/casing in the last game i played with him so I am actually leaning town for him.

don't think it's brass because scum are more likely to be wagon followers than starters in my experience.

I feel like Roo is trying to active lurk through day 1.

I think those are the only major reads from him so far. Correct me if I'm wrong, yellow.

This sounds like a good target for a vote.

[Roo]

I am going to be very honest with you, and this will probably seem very egotistical/over-confident and you will probably hate it and maybe use those personal feelings to scum read me but whatever

I think it is better to take stuff at logic > emotions because emotions can cloud one's judgement

*snip*

DT not posting any reads/pushes at the moment is slightly ping-y, but I am a little confused because he would have no problem just pushing people who are scummy or even if they are not scummy to see their reaction. His low content is also negative for town so I think he should start stepping his game up and start posting a lot more to carry town to the win.

Yea, totally agree with that. Dunno about the case you made about you being very good at scum and bad at town so since you're playing bad this game therefore you're town. But I agree that you should really step your game up, starting by telling what you think of the game so far and of each player (Dunno if you have done that in the 5 following pages or not). I'll probably have more trouble reading you then because your case has a lot of wifom and meta I think. two things that I completely suck at reading. You are going to be on my radar though.

Right now, I personally would list DT at "very slight scum lean" for low efforting, but secretly know that that is non alignment indicative for him and is only putting him at scum lean to see his reaction. He is a very omgus-y type of a player so that will generate reaction frmo him which will help you learn his alignment

Hmm, that would make some sense.

Appreciate that you took the time and effort to answer my question.

Comments in *

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Hearth, appreciate all the posts, I'm just curious on what you think of self-meta in general? How much strength do you give to it here on your read of DT?

[Roo]

And do you really think you've given "plenty of reads". When I look at your iso, all I see is a lot of 1 sentence thoughts. Are there any reads you feel particularly strongly about? Or a more developed case for who might be scum?

Yes, I knew. I thought that was allowed. I put my vote on who I think is scum. I've given plenty of reads.

This time I actually looked back and noticed that he didn't make ANY reads whatsoever, before this post

@YellowSnow this is something that I really would like addressed, where are all these "plenty of reads" and what are they?

[Roo]

YellowSnow for reasons discussed before, in fact I don't think he posted yesterday at all, and it feels lurky to me compared to the last game I played with him.

I think this is interesting. It doesn't look like this YellowSnow lines up that well with a previous town YellowSnow.

[hearthstone1235]

Despite that, Yellow's reads that I mentioned in my #260 are a little unique (Roo active lurking + about Brass and time ). So he does have that.


p-edit: This is the first time I've ever heard of self-meta, so I'm not really sure of the theories surrounding it. I'm also not used to dealing with meta in general. If a player has 50 or so games under their belt then their meta wouldn't be as trustworthy, especially for faster games. (I have played more than 50 fast mafia games on another website I think, my playstyle have changed lots of times). A player with more games would have a more predictive meta, but even then they would be able to play around it. maybe, trying new strategies. Though meta can be indicative of one's character. That's the only use I have for meta so far. Including meta in the equation would make someone harder to read. It would be easier to read them without any prejudices. Self-meta seems to be even less trustworthy because it depends on the person under question. But his post have been giving me towny vibes and I find it a little hard to read it imagining that DT is scum. I think I would give it NAI or leaning-town-by-small-margin

[hearthstone1235]

Volxen, as for your referencing me calling it "unfortunate" that Roo's answer seemed genuine and unrushed,

I only called in unfortunate because my

attempt

at getting a read ended in nothing more than "Possible town."

I understand that this can be seen as a good thing, but our goal here is to figure out who is scum, so in my opinion while a town read is helpful it was not what I was hoping for in the long run, as it would have been more fortunate to get a possible scum read, at least short-term.

Volxen, what do you think of this response? the bolded part gives me slight town vibes because town is pressured to find scum.

Though I'm a little confused on what he means by long run and short-term. @Saint, can you elaborate on that a little bit?


Anyway, I'd appreciate a little more pressure on YellowSnow for now. VOTE: YellowSnow. Would like to hear his answers and reactions to what have been said. Also, @Yellow, what do you think of Saint?

[YellowSnow]

I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.

[Roo]

I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.

I haven't voted for you and have directed questions at you. What's your excuse for me?

[YellowSnow]

Which questions?

[Roo]

And do you really think you've given "plenty of reads". When I look at your iso, all I see is a lot of 1 sentence thoughts. Are there any reads you feel particularly strongly about? Or a more developed case for who might be scum?

Yes, I knew. I thought that was allowed. I put my vote on who I think is scum. I've given plenty of reads.

This time I actually looked back and noticed that he didn't make ANY reads whatsoever, before this post

@YellowSnow this is something that I really would like addressed, where are all these "plenty of reads" and what are they?

Which questions?

[Roo]

Apologies, I just realized I messed up the quote boxes in 262

[Roo]

Which questions?

How did you miss my post which was 4 posts before you posted and used "@YellowSnow" to direct a question at you? Also, the post was before HS's posts that you obviously read since you knew he voted for you.

[YellowSnow]

I'm working. So it may be a couple days to get in depth reads. But in general I like Brass and xwing as town and you as scum.

[L84Dnr]

I'm not going to reply because I've been voted on. Ask nicely and maybe I'll respond.

Wow. I think that you just fashioned yourself a noose.

VOTE: Yellow Snow

Please explain why you think that anybody would unvote you for refusing to answer a question. Pretty please with sugar and cream on top.

[Roo]

I'm working. So it may be a couple days to get in depth reads. But in general I like Brass and xwing as town and you as scum.

I understand, RL gets in the way. I wasn't here much for a few days. I will say though that in 190 you said you suspected me because you thought I was "trying to active lurk" through day 1. Couldn't that same thing be said about you who has posted 35 times and hasn't given any detailed reasons for your reads?