"Don't look too town as scum"

Persivul · Post Post #50 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:02 am

Consider this - "You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM."

My point is that you can't just reinvent yourself AS SCUM. Anything you do that will make it harder for you to be read as scum, will necessarily also make it harder for you to be read as town. The two go hand in hand.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #51 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:21 am

lol

In the sense that your scum game being more advanced than it was before makes you harder to townread, sure, but don't delude yourself that any of this involves not playing to wincon as best as they can as town

ISO · Post Post #52 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:03 am

I'm pretty sure that's closer to suggesting people should compromise scumgames in order to be easier to read..?

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #53 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:18 am

Yes that is what persivul is implying

In that case it's no wonder he couldn't win that micro, it wasn't that it was townsided it was that he was intentionally underplaying as scum to keep his town meta sancrosanct, which is notably essentially trust telling.

Irrelephant11 · Post Post #54 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:46 pm

In post 0, Flubbernugget wrote:The saying goes that if you look too town as scum you'll get lynched in lylo for still being alive.

Except, I don't think I've ever seen scum snow a town and then lose the game in lylo over it.

So, does this actually happen?

I have not seen this happen, but I can think of a couple examples of times it should have happened

Ankamius · Post Post #55 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:19 pm

In post 50, Persivul wrote:Consider this - "You can always reinvent yourself as scum and you always need to be doing stuff that people won't point to recent scum experiences and be like HEY HE DID THAT AS SCUM."

My point is that you can't just reinvent yourself AS SCUM. Anything you do that will make it harder for you to be read as scum, will necessarily also make it harder for you to be read as town. The two go hand in hand.

Actually, you should be trying to reinvent your scumgame every time you hit scum because that's how you 'improve' as scum.

Skill with both alignments are scaled to each other, so improving at one will naturally decrease your skill as the other; becoming a better scum player will make your influence as town equivocally harder to gain while becoming a better town player will make your play harder to emulate as scum. This is why players with very strong scumgames commonly have a lot of issues getting anywhere in their towngames regardless of their town play; it's also why players that very commonly have a big impact towards their team winning as town can't get very far in the majority of their scumgames.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #56 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:30 pm

In post 55, Ankamius wrote:it's also why players that very commonly have a big impact towards their team winning as town can't get very far in the majority of their scumgames.

disagree

i think the getting better as scum -> town is way harder thing is a lot more pronounced than better town -> scum harder

Ankamius · Post Post #57 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:37 pm

That's probably more indicative of towns on this site being... well, not very good in a lot of instances.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #58 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 5:41 pm

i don't think that's different on other sites, or at least not on mafia universe.

callforjudgement · Post Post #59 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:16 pm

I blame the scum kill for towns being bad. After a few days, players who are playing well have all gone and only the townies who are struggling are left.

RadiantCowbells · Post Post #60 (ISO) » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:19 pm

i think nightless is more fun to play as both alignments

Persivul · Post Post #61 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:11 am

In post 51, RadiantCowbells wrote:lol

In the sense that your scum game being more advanced than it was before makes you harder to townread, sure, but don't delude yourself that any of this involves not playing to wincon as best as they can as town

If you change your meta so that you're more difficult to identify as town, then yes, you're not playing as best you can as town.

Persivul · Post Post #62 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:12 am

In post 52, the worst wrote:I'm pretty sure that's closer to suggesting people should compromise scumgames in order to be easier to read..?

No, that's suggesting that people should strive to improve their scum games by mimicking their town games as best as they can.

northsidegal · Post Post #63 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:14 am

In post 61, Persivul wrote:If you change your meta so that you're more difficult to identify as town, then yes, you're not playing as best you can as town.

wouldn't deliberately avoiding changing your meta as scum such that you are easier to identify as town be counted as playing towards a future win condition?

MathBlade · Post Post #64 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:22 am

In post 63, northsidegal wrote:
In post 61, Persivul wrote:If you change your meta so that you're more difficult to identify as town, then yes, you're not playing as best you can as town.
wouldn't deliberately avoiding changing your meta as scum such that you are easier to identify as town be counted as playing towards a future win condition?

It’s more if you’re should be trying to be townread if scum or town. If you tank your town game to help your scum game or vice versa you’re not playing the best you can.

northsidegal · Post Post #65 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:25 am

i agree with that although from what i can gather i do not believe that is exactly what persivul is saying

ISO · Post Post #66 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:52 am

In post 64, MathBlade wrote:
In post 63, northsidegal wrote:
In post 61, Persivul wrote:If you change your meta so that you're more difficult to identify as town, then yes, you're not playing as best you can as town.
wouldn't deliberately avoiding changing your meta as scum such that you are easier to identify as town be counted as playing towards a future win condition?
It’s more if you’re should be trying to be townread if scum or town. If you tank your town game to help your scum game or vice versa you’re not playing the best you can.

concur completely

my scumgame isn't an imitation of my towngame
fight me

Xtoxm · Post Post #67 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:58 am

In post 66, the worst wrote:
In post 64, MathBlade wrote:
In post 63, northsidegal wrote:
In post 61, Persivul wrote:If you change your meta so that you're more difficult to identify as town, then yes, you're not playing as best you can as town.
wouldn't deliberately avoiding changing your meta as scum such that you are easier to identify as town be counted as playing towards a future win condition?
It’s more if you’re should be trying to be townread if scum or town. If you tank your town game to help your scum game or vice versa you’re not playing the best you can.
concur completely

my scumgame isn't an imitation of my towngame
fight me

there was a time when i mimicked my scum game as town to get mislynched less. and it worked.

Creature · Post Post #68 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:55 pm

I think "Don't look too town as town" is a good scum strategy too.

Krazy · Post Post #69 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 3:09 pm

I don't think warping town meta to increase scum winrate is healthy for the site tbh

ISO · Post Post #70 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 5:30 pm

In post 67, Xtoxm wrote:there was a time when i mimicked my scum game as town to get mislynched less. and it worked.

And people wonder why I do it.

callforjudgement · Post Post #71 (ISO) » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:20 pm

It's worked for me before now (I started playing to my scum meta by accident in a town game, realised it, but it seemed to be working so I just continued).

That said, the game was Nightless and symmetrical, so there was no reason

not

to look as town as possible, regardless of alignment.

Persivul · Post Post #72 (ISO) » Wed Jan 30, 2019 9:38 am

In post 63, northsidegal wrote: wouldn't deliberately avoiding changing your meta as scum such that you are easier to identify as town be counted as playing towards a future win condition?

You're only easier to identify as town to the extent that you can't pretend to scum hunt when you're scum.

People seem to have forgotten this, but...that's the base concept of the game.

callforjudgement · Post Post #73 (ISO) » Wed Jan 30, 2019 10:53 am

I don't think there's any particular reason to play against your scum meta as scum, in of itself.

What you have to do is play against what people

think

your scum meta is, regardless of whether they're right or wrong in that. (So for example, if people generally believe you to be inactive as scum and post-spammy as town, it's correct to spam posts, especially if you're scum. This is regardless of what your play is actually like.)

A side-effect of this is that you have no reason to change your scum meta until someone else figures out what it is.

Elsa Jay · Post Post #74 (ISO) » Wed Jan 30, 2019 4:53 pm

In post 37, northsidegal wrote:i think very, very few people have ever deliberately held back their towngame to improve their scumgame

In post 42, RadiantCowbells wrote:The only two players who I think have ever historically sandbagged their town game for the benefit of their scum game are Elsa Jay now and Boonskiies a long time ago

#NoRegrets

Seriously though, in my subject I'm the opposite of the title of the thread, but in a circular way I'm encountering this situation from the other side of the spectrum.

The point of being Scum is to be indistighable from your Town game. I'm naturally inclined to do weird things when I get bored and I do things scummy for the sake of town as a townie. I play the same way because too me it's more fun then leaving a "towntell", wasting it to win a scumgame, then consciously going against your meta and slipping up multiple times.

Just play naturally and don't think "do I look townie?" As scum. Just be scummy in a townie way.