Merchant's Daughter [Game Restart!]

[Alisae]

aw thx dude

[Ankamius]

actually mcqueen is scum in this.

you're my new favorite

[mcqueen]

actually mcqueen is scum in this.

[mcqueen]

actually mcqueen is scum in this.

you're my new favorite

[Jibril]

*Yawn*

[Pink Ball]

mcqueen I’ll dance with you on the condition that your vote is where I tell you to vote.

This is kinda arousing

[PvtUrist]

Alright, roughly caught up from the last 10 pages. The reads haven't changed much from yesterday;

{Slaxx}
{Allomancer, Dunnstral}
{Celica, Nancy Drew 39}
{Firebringer, Teh Wus, Pink Ball, Alisae, mcqueen, Reinhardt, Clemency}
{Jibril}
{Adelbret Stenier, Krasy}
{Ankamius}

Feel free to ask questions on my reads. Been wanting to interact more with this game, but haven't been finding the appropiate place to start conversations.

PvtUrist, this is the post I was talking about yesterday. The "feel free to ask questions on my read" is what I perceive as scummy. Like, this game intimidates you, so you ask the rest of the playerlist to interact with you in order to engage yourself and look busy and townie. I've cought scum three times before doing this exact same thing, and the feeling of intimidation is always a common factor.

I do believe I've explained myself clearly enough back in #1618, but I'll have to clarify it it again.

Got it. the "intimidation" part comes from;

1) First large theme game, bad timezones doesn't help

2) Pre-dance mechanic that doesn't allowed pushing lynches on D1

I don't believe I can explain this better than what I quoted above. My hesitation is largely due to 2), and

exactly what I was afraid of happened when I begin to interact.

In a normal game, it'd be pushing for a lynch until either it happens or I've convinced otherwise, which isn't what happens here. The change in my "tone" or "playstyle" is largely due to this, after all you're the second player to scumread me solely based on differences in my current and previous meta.

As of catching scum 3 times based off of this, while I do agree with your line of thought, were they also in theme games where mechanics were altered from normal? With your overall tone (implying yourself that you won't be making to endgame, as well as caring to push me on your reads), I TR you based on this, but do realise that acting more conservative or intimidated does not immediately equal to scum.

This goes to mcqueen as well.

[Slaxx]

mcqueen I’ll dance with you on the condition that your vote is where I tell you to vote.

This is kinda arousing

I’ve had less Spivey first dates

I can get behind this sentiment

[Slaxx]

Never in a million years will I know why Spivey is in my autocorrect

[Celica]

I don't think the game is as easy as rein/Adel both being scum. Maybe one or even none. What's your take on those slots? I feel they'll get lynched regardless of who they're paired with

These two have been mentioned a lot, and once I'm done reading the thread, their ISOs are a good place to start, along with Krazy's, for additional reads.

Krazy slot is town friend! I do think Rein/Adel are good places to start and I do think they need to die sooner rather than later. It's just who takes the fall with them.

How does this make me scum if clem/pink and town?

Hard to explain. Let's call it gut for now. However, I'll sadly want you dead anyway.

Celica, your thought process could've been different in real-time, but from the posts Dunn quoted, Dunn looks pretty town. Unless anyone's sure Clem's gonna flip town, but even then, while Dunn

could've

been pushing an easy target as scum, it was also a seemingly

valid

push, therefore I wouldn't automatically lynch Dunn if Clem flips green.

I'm somewhat starting to agree with you given the conversation I had last night

Looking for replacement for Reinhardt.

The whole game is gonna be replacing out at this rate. :/

Yeah this is a mess.

Celica I kind of don't really get the associatives between Dunn and Pink Ball?

I don't think it makes them SVS. I do think the way dunn played around them is interesting. Is the best way I can put it

Do you think there's 1 scum in there or...
I'm just confused atm

I'd prob delete my account with how confident I am that if we killed Pink/Clen and Slax/Dunn it doesn't net us scum.

So you are townreading Clem

and

Dunn? I'm quite confused, sorry. Who are your scumreads?

No no I'm saying if we kill both pairs it'd get us scum.

[Celica]

So, Urist should be the one leaving the dance with no partner, bummer.

Clem and I are leaving the party too, so Celica will have to talk about the rest of the playerlist instead of trying to look busy when she's just repeating "Pink Ball is scum" when things have changed along the way. I think Celica is scum and Clem/me leaving will be pro town to make Dunn and Alisae go after her.

Don't try to read too much into this post, like "scum!PB is trying to look town with this post", 'cause we are 100% leaving the dance no matter what

Fully okay with this

Before you ask. No, I won't go into more detail. Mostly because I don't want to and It's rather pointless to keep going about it. I just need to show people that the 2 pairings I want dead are strongly likely to have scum.

??? (@my above) Did you mean it

does

net us scum? You said doesn't, but then you say this.

Also, I've seen you say the "I won't go into more detail" more than once now, and while one of those times may have been in your spat with Pink Ball, umm, I'd prefer it if you explained your thought process in full. This isn't a game with crazy power roles or anything like that, so I see no reason not to spill almost your entire mind with regards to the game.

I had reasons for not wanting to fully explain, but I think I did later on in the game. If you have more questions or you think anything is unclear let me know.

[Celica]

What you're not explaining is how if pink/clem are town, I'm suddenly scum

Because I'm pretty sure that's the approach you'd take as scum

So if there is scum in pinkball/clem, is Dunn town or scum

Town but I'll still lynch him because of Slax.

What's wrong with Slaxx? I'm pretty sure I've picked up he's a pretty good all-around townread, so if you have doubts about him, that's interesting.

I don't think his thoughts and process throughout the game are genuine. I saw dunn give a few reasons on why he thought Slaxx was town, but compared to what I've stated nothing has really been solid enough to make me change my read.

Okay I have my tea and my tunes playing. A good pillow scream. I feel better. Still a bit sad, better though!
Pedit: You know what I needed that laugh

Gonna whiteknight/hypocrite/play devil's advocate (did I use that properly?) here and say; my goal is not to be rude to you.

Just to calmly restate what I'd like you to explain (mostly because I haven't read the thread), is why do you think Slaxx is scum? Are you sure that Dunn and Pink Ball are not of the same alignment? I read your reasoning (Dunn felt dodgy), but is it possible they could both be town?

As of this post, I've seen Rein has requested replacement. His ISO should still net me some insight, as well as Adel, Krazy, and now Pink Ball.
I currently think Alisae, Dunn, Celica, and Nancy are town; and, I think PvtUrist is scummy. More to say about the latter in a minute.

1) See above 2) I would be very shocked if those 2 pairs dying gets us 0 scum yeah. Worst case they're all town and scum is all the lurkish slots, but that seems doubtful. I'm more confident on Pink than I am dunn/slaxx though.

[Celica]

I stopped worrying with Cecila because it didn’t seem that she was interested in changing her mind. As someone who tunnels that’s fine, but her lack of any follow up interaction with me COMBINED with a feeing of stubbornness is what is a red flag. If I’ve missed some questions from her let me know, but that’s a fairly reliable tell I’ve used in the past. I know someone told her in the thread to not interact with scumreads, can’t think of who that was and on mobile, but I need to go back and check.

You haven't tried to interact with me once. I'm more than willing to interact with my scumreads. (See PB) It also doesn't help you have the 2 easy lynchers me and my lock town (soon to be hopefully) dance partner as scum

[Celica]

I do because if you look at my older games, a lot of them I got heated and I was mostly town

anger is a very NAI emotion imo. People can get mad as town and scum

I'm happy Pink is dying because he's upsetting me and he's a big sr for me. Mostly the former though.

@McQueen: you say you think that Celica feeling hurt seems genuine and it probably comes from town. I say she started looking for a 1v1 with me trying to provoke me with this coment, since this came before I started even talking about/with her, so that "feeling hurt" seems faked.

Do you feel it was a tvt, or I don't get the same read?

You must have a really low opinion on mafia players if you think people would purposely try to anger you to get a townread. Combined with the fact you think I'd fake something like that to get a townread. I like to win games by fooling others with my play as scum. Not because people think I can't be angry as scum. So no that wasn't fake.

PB is town

Nope

These scumreads on me have come out of left field and I don't really know how I feel about it? Pinkball I don't really care about because he's not playing the game and isn't making end game. Most likely the first pair to die thankfully.

@mcqueen this is what Celica replied after I said her scumread on me was probably scum faking a scumread. Again, proof that her "feeling hurt" was staged

How does this prove me feeling hurt was something that was staged? Also you never even responded to my reason for calling you scum. Can you even recall it?

[Celica]

Coming around to Pvt Town

[Alisae]

btw I'm here if I am need ask me

[Slaxx]

I stopped worrying with Cecila because it didn’t seem that she was interested in changing her mind. As someone who tunnels that’s fine, but her lack of any follow up interaction with me COMBINED with a feeing of stubbornness is what is a red flag. If I’ve missed some questions from her let me know, but that’s a fairly reliable tell I’ve used in the past. I know someone told her in the thread to not interact with scumreads, can’t think of who that was and on mobile, but I need to go back and check.

You haven't tried to interact with me once. I'm more than willing to interact with my scumreads. (See PB) It also doesn't help you have the 2 easy lynchers me and my lock town (soon to be hopefully) dance partner as scum

I responded to your case and that was that. If it wasn't, let me know.

[Celica]

Okay let's start here then. You said you don't like Fire trying to disengage the Krazy 1v1. Do you think that makes them partners? Also, how does the fact I'm openly trying to dance with Krazy make you feel? Any comment on that?

[Slaxx]

Okay let's start here then. You said you don't like Fire trying to disengage the Krazy 1v1. Do you think that makes them partners? Also, how does the fact I'm openly trying to dance with Krazy make you feel? Any comment on that?

Yeah, the Krazy disengagement was bad, but it wasn't the worst part of it.

FB said they felt a scumread forming during Krazy and I's discussion but called the discussion useless. That was a red flag. When pushed they said they couldn't explain it right then. I brought it up again today and still no response. I don't know how AI that is for Krazy but it is bad for FB. Also, I moved Krazy up in my reads after the frustrated replace out. It's not like I'm not willing to change my opinion, there's just a lot of stuff preventing me from trusting that slot. The big thing was the meta read on Dunn and I that I have brought up countless times, that I never really got a straight answer to. How am I not supposed to think that was made up when he couldn't give me evidence he had actually meta'd us? I mean come on.

I think by default that makes you way less likely to be partners, particularly if you follow through with it. I think your pickings are fairly slim given the overall state of the gentleman so I think Krazy is probably the right person to aim for regardless of alignment because at least some influential players are townreading the slot.

[Celica]

I'll answer you in the morning. If you have any questions put them and I'll make it into one neat little gift post!

[Slaxx]

Just one big one. My current perception of you (which could be wrong, and I am welcome to change) is that you have had the same reads for quite a while and feel like you decided pretty early what your stances were gonna be, and don't seem particularly flexible in changing them. Is there an example of someone you changed your read on, whether you mentioned it or not, and what made you change the read on them? I'm sure there's little bits in your ISO somewhere but if you can give me your biggest read change since game start and why that changed.

I know I can look through the ISO but I want it fresh from you.

[PvtUrist]

Slaxx

I have an idea for how we should go about pairing if we do it as a group but if I vocalize it now it can be gamed, so remind me in like...four days or something.

[Slaxx]

Slaxx

I have an idea for how we should go about pairing if we do it as a group but if I vocalize it now it can be gamed, so remind me in like...four days or something.

ohhhhhhhh

Yes!

So, that kind of died after the second pairing but the spirit of it still kind of works.

Obviously the person we want to leave out of the dance can be the most scummy.

Ideally, we would pair the next two scummiest people, regardless if they worked together for partners, for the first lynch. The game always starts to crack open after the first mafia lynch and you probably don't want to go all in on who you think are pairs right away. It is better to hedge your bets on a single scum flip and keep T:S ratio high than mislynch 1 or 2 pairs before hitting because you were focused on associatives more than breaking open the first red.

By then, with three flips, it would be fairly likely one would be red, and then you go back and look at people's reaction to the pairing. That's why I thought deciding as a group would be better, because it would double up on the information we got.

But after PB/Clem paired up it kind of broke that.

[Slaxx]

Basically I wanted a communal choice on pairs to get extra information out of people's inputs, specifically focused on getting a red flip as soon as possible and ignoring associative until then. But I abandoned that strat after the second pairing.

If we still want to try it we can, but people went their own way it seems.

[PvtUrist]

I'll respond in a while Slaxx, I think it's a good idea from a skim.

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