Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Vedith]

You’re not going to offer up any scumreads? Seriously?

When I see scum or something I don't like I'll let you all know.
Pre dance is basically the point where everyone is more worried about looking good than not, regardless of align.
For that reason, I'm going to keep preparing my outfit!

[Krazy]

So basically, top 4 coin ladies still get to pick their partners. *town does not pick for them*, but *town can by consensus reject a pairing*?

That is, top 4 ladies just have 1 extra step.

1. Dude offers
2. If Lady likes the dude, Lady asks, "who all scumreads this guy?"
3. If it's less than half the town, she accepts. She only rejects if more than half the town rejects the pairing

whereas the other 4 ladies are just like
1. Dude offers
2. Lady decides

something like that?

[Krazy]

Or alternatively,

@FakeGod, is No Lynch an option for first dance?

Yes.

@Taly

[FakeGod]

@Fakegod, I want you to confirm this.

Yes.

[Nancy Drew 39]

So basically, top 4 coin ladies still get to pick their partners. *town does not pick for them*, but *town can by consensus reject a pairing*?

That is, top 4 ladies just have 1 extra step.

1. Dude offers
2. If Lady likes the dude, Lady asks, "who all scumreads this guy?"
3. If it's less than half the town, she accepts. She only rejects if more than half the town rejects the pairing

whereas the other 4 ladies are just like
1. Dude offers
2. Lady decides

something like that?

But if we decide on no lynch, does it matter? *confused*

I mean the coin factor.

I think maybe we decide on who the scummiest gent is, so he doesn’t even make it to the first dance.

[Krazy]

I'm still in the mindset that if we're going with scenario 2 it's actually better strategically to not give reads in pre-dance, although I'm slightly gravitating toward scenario 3 the more I think about it, partly since it would make pre-dance more informative. But also possibly more frustrating. I think there's actually an appeal in this setup to just having a fun pre-dance where people really just pair off personality, especially if we're planning on a long second dance

So if I'm focusing a lot on setup spec rather than reads right now, it's because *one scenario in setup spec means we don't even talk about reads* which I know sounds really counter-intuitive and maybe dumb.

[Dannflor]

1. Dude offers
2. If Lady likes the dude, Lady asks, "who all scumreads this guy?"
3. If it's less than half the town, she accepts. She only rejects if more than half the town rejects the pairing

I like this quite a bit

No lynching after the first day also gets us down to an odd number of pairs after the NK, yea?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm still in the mindset that if we're going with scenario 2 it's actually better strategically to not give reads in pre-dance, although I'm slightly gravitating toward scenario 3 the more I think about it, partly since it would make pre-dance more informative. But also possibly more frustrating. I think there's actually an appeal in this setup to just having a fun pre-dance where people really just pair off personality, especially if we're planning on a long second dance

So if I'm focusing a lot on setup spec rather than reads right now, it's because *one scenario in setup spec means we don't even talk about reads* which I know sounds really counter-intuitive and maybe dumb.

Why should we not form reads in pre-dance? I want everyone’s opinions on my choice of possible suitors, to minimise the chance I accept scum.

[Krazy]

But if we decide on no lynch, does it matter? *confused*

I mean the coin factor.

I think maybe we decide on who the scummiest gent is, so he doesn’t even make it to the first dance.

It *could* matter.

If there are two scum gentlemen and they have 15 coins they could just lynch three pairings of their choice if town could not hammer no lynch fast enough.

As I said, Dance 1 *can* be exceptionally stupid, even if I don't know scum would play like that. I'm just saying, *there is a scenario* where dance 1 is incredibly dumb and I almost want to get to dance 2 before I even 'really try' frankly because otherwise there's a chance we spend days arguing over pairings and then scum just sweep because they somehow ended up with lots of coins.

It's important to me that if I am going to put a lot of thought into people's alignments that I feel pretty strongly scum can't just nuke my entire townblock because they have the voting power of 10-17 people

[Krazy]

It's important to me that if I am going to put a lot of thought into people's alignments that I feel pretty strongly scum can't just nuke my entire townblock

maybe some of you can figure out just how important this it to me lol

[Dannflor]

So if I'm focusing a lot on setup spec rather than reads right now, it's because *one scenario in setup spec means we don't even talk about reads* which I know sounds really counter-intuitive and maybe dumb.

I'm not following that scum have as much power as you say they do in the first dance, even considering worst possible scenario coin totals. Won't the orchestration of a lynch on a pair that's been universally agreed to be town essentially reveal the entire scum team?

[Vedith]

to minimise the chance I accept scum.

Also, at any point during the dance, a player may voluntarily leave (he/she dies and his/her alignment flips), which forces his/her partner to leave as well.

Imagine if we had the tools to deal with pairing up with a scum!

[Krazy]

Why should we not form reads in pre-dance? I want everyone’s opinions on my choice of possible suitors, to minimise the chance I accept scum.

Yeah, maybe I'm pushing scenario 2 to an illogical extreme

For scenario 2, we just don't want the 'lynch order' of the town to be super obvious to scum. There should not be a scum motivation in using coins to try to lynch members of the towncore during dance 1.

That probably does not mean we can't give reads, so actually feel free giving reads

[Dannflor]

Like if town agrees on the town pairs, then it'd be obvious if one of them gets lynched by the scum team

[Alisae]

So basically I think we just go into this thinking go into Dance 2 with 14 players, an IC, and treat it like a mountainous from there

what ic

[Nancy Drew 39]

But if we decide on no lynch, does it matter? *confused*

I mean the coin factor.

I think maybe we decide on who the scummiest gent is, so he doesn’t even make it to the first dance.

It *could* matter.

If there are two scum gentlemen and they have 15 coins they could just lynch three pairings of their choice if town could not hammer no lynch fast enough.

As I said, Dance 1 *can* be exceptionally stupid, even if I don't know scum would play like that. I'm just saying, *there is a scenario* where dance 1 is incredibly dumb and I almost want to get to dance 2 before I even 'really try' frankly because otherwise there's a chance we spend days arguing over pairings and then scum just sweep because they somehow ended up with lots of coins.

It's important to me that if I am going to put a lot of thought into people's alignments that I feel pretty strongly scum can't just nuke my entire townblock because they have the voting power of 10-17 people

Scum only gets one NK though, they can’t nuke an entire townblock. They will still likely be NKing one of the likeliest town pairs, whether we make reads or not.

[Krazy]

I'm not following that scum have as much power as you say they do in the first dance, even considering worst possible scenario coin totals. Won't the orchestration of a lynch on a pair that's been universally agreed to be town essentially reveal the entire scum team?

See the problem here is that FakeGod has not established timers between each lynch in Dance 1. People can leave the dance, FakeGod gives a flip, and the game continues.

So if Dance 1 took {more than a day}, scum could ask FakeGod a mod question, then just try to sweep before their partners had a chance to leave the dance and stop them.

Basically I am trying to avoid:
Scumreadgent1 and scumreadgent2: "Hey who all is on right now? Also, @mod could we get a vote count"
Mod: "Vote count"
*no other responses*
Scumreadgent 1 and scumread gent 2: *lynches 3 town pairs*

Does that actually happen? I don't know. But I think there's merit in making sure that two scumread men do not have more than 10 combined coins if possible.

[Krazy]

Which is also why I just want to hammer no lynch for dance 1 and just not even deal with that phase of the game at all

[Krazy]

Like I don't want to spend lots of time thinking about all the ways scum can juke or ruin town dance 1 when we can just skip it entirely, which I think is how we want to play it

[Dannflor]

So basically I think we just go into this thinking go into Dance 2 with 14 players, an IC, and treat it like a mountainous from there

what ic

Scum must choose to reveal the alignment of a player for Dance 2

[Krazy]

During the intermission, Mafia may secretly force one of the dance pairs to leave. Mafia also picks another player, whose alignment will be made public at the beginning of the Second dance. Second dance will then begin, and continue until the game's end.

Town gets an IC at start of second dance

[Taly]

oh, overlooked that mod answer

mmm....

Krazy's

strategy sounds good in theory

>

High coin ladies claim to AVOID any scum-gents lying and vote/hammering in First Dance anyway.

>

Getting rid of the "coin mechanic" by going directly to Second Dance without lynch

helps town in multiple ways

:
- Numerically, more town are likely to stay alive
-

Second Dance BEGINS with an IC being made

- to my understanding - so that actually serves to validate people's reads to an extent from Pre-Dance.

>

Getting rid of the "coin mechanic" by going directly to Second Dance without lynch

hurts scum in multiple ways

:
- Scum can't use ANY knowledge of their coins/partner's coins to position a mislynch on someone
- Restricts their options for potential NK, especially if mutually thought townpairs are created

i think a group consenus should be made for pairs, but i dont think forcing someone to pair with another person they scumread is wise

i like this idea a lot, but we need a consenus on everyone committing to this plan or we can't do it

and ANYONE who disagrees with this strategy, should elaborate on their thoughts of it.

[Krazy]

i think a group consenus should be made for pairs, but i dont think forcing someone to pair with another person they scumread is wise

I fundamentally oppose asking any high coin lady to dance with someone she scumreads

I'm saying town should have veto power, not that town should decide the matches beyond that

[Nancy Drew 39]

So if I'm focusing a lot on setup spec rather than reads right now, it's because *one scenario in setup spec means we don't even talk about reads* which I know sounds really counter-intuitive and maybe dumb.

I'm not following that scum have as much power as you say they do in the first dance, even considering worst possible scenario coin totals.

Won't the orchestration of a lynch on a pair that's been universally agreed to be town essentially reveal the entire scum team?

A) Why are you necessarily assuming all 3 scum would necessarily be on the same wagon?

B) When does scum ever open wolf like this? [/b]

[Dannflor]

Basically I am trying to avoid:
Scumreadgent1 and scumreadgent2: "Hey who all is on right now? Also, @mod could we get a vote count"
Mod: "Vote count"
*no other responses*
Scumreadgent 1 and scumread gent 2: *lynches 3 town pairs*

If that's actually how the game can work a no-lynch is definitely the way to go. I also like the idea of being careful with high coin ladies, because even without a town bloc they could still do this.

pedit: wait, can't they only lynch 2 pairs? Because the day ends once the player count reaches 12