Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Vedith]

that's exactly my point. I can infer from her being top of your list that you townread her. My question, which you still fail to answer, is why?

But I did answer it in my original post.
Let me get it.

I also see the people pushing, and other than Ali, I don't like it!

In addition, her reaction to my play is 100% justified. And unlike some people, didn't just go "Vedith town yay" after Gamma and Fire said.

[Vedith]

scumread doesn't automatically mean they are always wrong...

Yes it does!

[Allomancer]

scumread doesn't automatically mean they are always wrong...

Yes it does!

this is just false.

[Nancy Drew 39]

WILL SOMEONE PLEASE FREAKING EXPLAIN THIS To Me ALREADY BECAUSE MY HEAD Is HURTING.

Why do you even care?
I thought you wanted to scum hunt and sort who a naughty gentleman was?

Because I’m upset that I’m being wrongly scumread and it’s messing with my head. I really want/NEED to understand why and I don’t even care if that gets me mislynched. I have to know.

[Vedith]

this is just false.

You only think that because you scum read me.

[Krazy]

Are you all forgetting that RC is in this game and that scum would take an opportunity to remove him ASAP if they could?

So I should take a little time to explain why this is not a huge concern to me so you know where I'm coming from.

I have, personally, had a wildly ranging mix of experiences with RC. My first game with him was a disaster. My first game as scum against him, keeping him alive was basically my only wincon. My second game as town with him was simply frustrating because everyone started sheeping his reads after he died and I didn't feel like the game was being played anymore so I replaced out.

After that, I played with him on a hidden alt and had two very positive experiences with him, one where we solved the game together, and another where he failed to catch me as scum. On the whole, I know that I can have a good time with RC, although when we have played on my main, things have tended to be pretty rocky. I don't know if that's just bad hangovers from my first game or what.

So I am aware RC can have very strong, good games. But in my personal experience over the last year, his reads have been good but I don't see the need to freak out over his slot in particular. He's a strong, competent player, but not necessarily the one I would say is easiest to townread or the slot that I would assume would be the nightkill, given that when I was scum against him, I never tried to nightkill him and never really considered it. He can have really good games or really bad games just like anyone else. I like the energy he brings to the table and I'd like us to be friends even though we've had some rough experiences in the past and I might have shittalked him pretty badly one game shortly after that first disastrous game.

Also, as an aside, I don't think it's healthy to make a weird meta for RC before he even enters the game and I don't really want to discuss him more before he has a chance to post.

[Allomancer]

this is just false.

You only think that because you scum read me.

this logic is so flawed i don't even know where to start. I guess I'll just drop this here:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

[Vedith]

this logic is so flawed i don't even know where to start. I guess I'll just drop this here:

Even a broken clock is right twice a day

I'm glad we can see eye to eye.

[Nancy Drew 39]

idk this hyper concern about people scumreading her could be town but the way she is doing it really seems scum.
like we point out a reason and she is like "YOUR NOT SCUMREADING ME FOR THAT!" or "WHY ARE PEOPLE SCUMREADING ME!"
Like she lives on another planet where we can't scumread her for some things and that no one is explaining their reads.

Is it AI? maybe not but it is definitely impossible to engage with.

You’re blatantly misrepping me here. When did I ever say anything of the kind? All I’m trying to do is to make sense of it and the more I do that, the worse it gets but I am really really confused, so I’m pretty much useless in this game, until that changes unfortunately. :/

[Krazy]

I agree that high coin ladies should claim since I did it last game

But I vehemently deny that skipping first dance is a good idea in any stretch

This is fair, the question then simply is how long do we want dance 1 to be, because that is tied to how risky dance 1 is for town in my mind. Like we could treat Dance 1 like a Blitz Phase and just give it like 12 hours and then resolve it one way or the other before all of the town goes to sleep. idk we can keep talking about it

-- and I'm sorry to everyone for focusing on mechanics so much this early but it does really matter to me in terms of how we approach the pre-dance

[TheBrie]

Dia daoibh.

I think I already hate this game. a whole 21 pages, to read, and I really didn't take much of it in. So, I'll just be here now, and don't expect me to remember everything that happened before I arrived.

And please excuse me for being less than polite when arriving at a dance. Circumstances have irritated me.

So basically, top 4 coin ladies still get to pick their partners. *town does not pick for them*, but *town can by consensus reject a pairing*?

That is, top 4 ladies just have 1 extra step.

1. Dude offers
2. If Lady likes the dude, Lady asks, "who all scumreads this guy?"
3. If it's less than half the town, she accepts. She only rejects if more than half the town rejects the pairing

whereas the other 4 ladies are just like
1. Dude offers
2. Lady decides

something like that?

Seems reasonable, though I'm not sure about forcing the ladies to claim.

I'm just as confused as to why I'm being criticized for assuming RC is town when it should be blatantly obvious he will be the kill if he is town to people who have played with his town game, and that it's kind of really weird to suggest outright skipping the first dance and allowing scum to have their way with whoever they want first thing in the game.

Yeah, no thanks. I'm not following this plan and I'm going to heavily go against it if it gets traction like it has been

I'm not in favour of skipping first dance either.

I’ll explain when I get home

Third time I've seen this, not a fan.

I just get severe FOMO

Vedith is seeming kinda scummy here.

I don't like this because it's a lazy read. I don't like the "seeming kinda" wording to begin with, but aside from that, I think scum reading Vedith is easy but doesn't really make sense if you think about it. I don't think scum shows as much desperation to get a dance as he does. Worst case scenario, scum can buddy and pair up if they have to. Probably not optimal, but their strategy is probably closer to pocketing one person and not really worrying about being the odd man out. The motivation behind that behavior (even joking behavior) comes from town imo

Also, I don't like Allomancer's immediate defensiveness of not justifying his reads and pointing to previous games as "look I'm matching my town meta!" Doesn't seem like a town response

I think Vedith, Gamma, Ankamius, and Alisae are town

Don't like Allomancer, Nancy or Tally tbh

Krazy is mixed but leaning town

Allomancer is a little bit lazy.

Jokes about scumreading the mod are pretty common. I don't see how you think that's a scum move.

Is this the only point I make about you that is worth commenting on?

How about you explain your

Dann/Vedith

read.

Ank, was there any benefit that you saw in claiming coin value in your previous game of this?

Is there benefit in not claiming coin value?

I'm worried that scum would want to pocket or buddy high-value lady's.

Legitimate risk. Pros and cons to either side. Depends on how persuasive the scum are, and how good town are at reading.

[Nancy Drew 39]

No I am just going for low hanging fruit like a moron pinkball.
I did respond to ur bad townread on Nancy though.

Are you ever going to explain why you’re scumreading me here. Pretend I’m 5, maybe that will get us somewhere.

Nancy I am a master at prediction, so this is what is going to happen.

I am going to tell you that I did have reasons and I pointed them out.
You are going to say those aren't reasons and for me to explain them or will say that I didn't come up with reasons for scumreading you.
Then I will repeat that I did.
Then you will say the same thing as you did before.

Then we shall repeat this dance all into the night while everyone watches wondering how crazy I am for participating.
Would you like to start?

I don’t fucking understand! What part of that is going over your head?

[Vedith]

Because I’m upset that I’m being wrongly scumread and it’s messing with my head. I really want/NEED to understand why and I don’t even care if that gets me mislynched. I have to know.

If I tell you, will you agree to be my back up to Fire?

[Dannflor]

Allo you're just feeding a troll, if you're town I don't think you're going to get anything useful out of interacting with that slot

Also Krazy just posted two big posts again (about specific players in the game and not mechanics) with 0 reads

Krazy, you can focus on mechanics, but you've obviously been following the game enough to have real thoughts on players. What are they?

[Nancy Drew 39]

idk this hyper concern about people scumreading her could be town but the way she is doing it really seems scum.
like we point out a reason and she is like "YOUR NOT SCUMREADING ME FOR THAT!" or "WHY ARE PEOPLE SCUMREADING ME!"
Like she lives on another planet where we can't scumread her for some things and that no one is explaining their reads.

Is it AI? maybe not but it is definitely impossible to engage with.

It's a scumtell. There's a way to get reads from this that I think she would have taken by now if she was town, or at least tried to sort us at all. Instead she's going about it like somebody who already knows we are all town and doesn't need to sort.

OK now I'm gone for real. Have fun guys

[Vedith]

Allo you're just feeding a troll, if you're town I don't think you're going to get anything useful out of interacting with that slot

Who is this about?

[Firebringer]

I don’t fucking understand! What part of that is going over your head?

DING DING DING

we are doing the dance.
Let me tell you to go back and read the posts while you say their is no reasons given again. Or you don't understand. Or they aren't reasos.

I will wait.

[Krazy]

when it should be blatantly obvious he will be the kill

Having modded games with RC, I do know that some scumteams will prioritize RC as an early kill, so your concern is reasonable, but I wouldn't go so far as to say he is a "blatantly obvious" kill particularly when we don't know whether he will choose to obvtown or who he will be paired with

[Nancy Drew 39]

And why wouldn’t scum be desperate to be paired up? Not saying Vedith is scum but your reasoning makes no sense.

Because scum can just pair up with scum if they need too, town don't have that luxury

Sure they can but afaik that has never once happened. Why? Because when it comes down to the last two couples, scum is mechanically screwed if they do that. Prove me wrong.

[Krazy]

Reminder that deadline doesn't reset off a lynch in Dance 2
So with that plan we'd have 8 days to sort 14 players

I wanna say this level of attentiveness from Gamma is pretty strongly town indicative although I do tend to be pretty bad at reading her before day 3, historically speaking

[Krazy]

If we do this let the wealthy ones pick first for wider selection.

I agree that refraining from pairing until we've settled the top 4 wealthiest women/top 4 town guys would probably be preferable

[Allomancer]

If we do this let the wealthy ones pick first for wider selection.

I agree that refraining from pairing until we've settled the top 4 wealthiest women/top 4 town guys would probably be preferable

so when are our ladies gonna claim coins?

[TheBrie]

I agree that high coin ladies should claim since I did it last game

But I vehemently deny that skipping first dance is a good idea in any stretch

This is fair, the question then simply is how long do we want dance 1 to be, because that is tied to how risky dance 1 is for town in my mind. Like we could treat Dance 1 like a Blitz Phase and just give it like 12 hours and then resolve it one way or the other before all of the town goes to sleep. idk we can keep talking about it

-- and I'm sorry to everyone for focusing on mechanics so much this early but it does really matter to me in terms of how we approach the pre-dance

Could be a good idea. But short deadlines can be annoying because I'll likely be asleep for half of it.

Are you all forgetting that RC is in this game and that scum would take an opportunity to remove him ASAP if they could?

So I should take a little time to explain why this is not a huge concern to me so you know where I'm coming from.

I have, personally, had a wildly ranging mix of experiences with RC. My first game with him was a disaster. My first game as scum against him, keeping him alive was basically my only wincon. My second game as town with him was simply frustrating because everyone started sheeping his reads after he died and I didn't feel like the game was being played anymore so I replaced out.

After that, I played with him on a hidden alt and had two very positive experiences with him, one where we solved the game together, and another where he failed to catch me as scum. On the whole, I know that I can have a good time with RC, although when we have played on my main, things have tended to be pretty rocky. I don't know if that's just bad hangovers from my first game or what.

So I am aware RC can have very strong, good games. But in my personal experience over the last year, his reads have been good but I don't see the need to freak out over his slot in particular. He's a strong, competent player, but not necessarily the one I would say is easiest to townread or the slot that I would assume would be the nightkill, given that when I was scum against him, I never tried to nightkill him and never really considered it. He can have really good games or really bad games just like anyone else. I like the energy he brings to the table and I'd like us to be friends even though we've had some rough experiences in the past and I might have shittalked him pretty badly one game shortly after that first disastrous game.

Also, as an aside, I don't think it's healthy to make a weird meta for RC before he even enters the game and I don't really want to discuss him more before he has a chance to post.

Good points. I think my first game with RC (or second) we both replaced in to a newbie game towards the end and managed to trust each other enough to win. Second game, he wa scum, I was pocketed (And he could probably do it again with me). Third game we were the scum team. So I say he's not always easy to read, and more of a danger to town as scum that he is to scum as town. Maybe. But nuff said about him.

[Krazy]

Well I disagree my posting is wooden

I think the setup discussion was necessary to have and get out of the way early. I disagree everyone else is advancing discussion, in fact there’s been a lot of redundant posts/discussion along the lines of what you’re criticizing me for. I’ll explain what I mean when I get home

I'm just going to say that my read of Dann is going to be heavily skewed by an ongoing game where I'm on a stealth alt so I'm just going to vaguely mutter 'probably town' unconvincingly and let the rest of you deal with his slot for a bit

[Taly]

It's hard to sort or know where to start with 22 pages of mostly fluff

I'm reevaluating all my thoughts on the game and I'll get back with a reada list tonight or tomorrow

I'm phoneposting right now