Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Krazy]

(even though I don't want to dance with u this particular run)

and no, RC, I am not open to the idea of "oh, Krazy would be a good dance partner for Ank" because I say things like this

[Ankamius]

I don't scumread mechanical posting just for being mechanical posting

I genuinely thought the way you handled it was scummy

[Nancy Drew 39]

Yea Ank doesn't want me

out of curiosity, what do you mean by old school?

Who do you think is a good pair for Nancy?

Pvturist or DoubtingThomas probably

Dr Worm/Allomancer are a hard no would never work and who knows about Moment

Grrrrrr

It's okay I'm loyal boy

We were lovers in an MU game. I don’t have fond memories of it.

[Krazy]

Fair enough, although I guess I would still say -- the most obvtown pair is going to die, and I still kinda don't get why you think the town is way worse off with that being before we start lynching rather than after we lynch two pairs and maybe risk a second pair getting lynched by a desperate scumread player like vedith

like my "no lynch" argument was basically for this exact scenario

[Nancy Drew 39]

He fits the bill of probably won't be widely town read (at least I don't really town read him) but has a chance of maybe getting a long with Nancy

Pvt is probably preferred here though. I think the pairs should probably prioritize how well they'll work together so that's up to Nancy probably to decide

playstyle that was more common back in 2012 when you joined

best way I can describe it is that old school is more each post is a high school essay while most posts nowadays are twitter posts

lmao yea ok I get what you mean

I played a bit back then and then only came back recently, so I haven't quite adjusted, and probably won't ever fully because I like being more transparent in my thought processes than the twitter post style allows

Urist really would need to do a lot more to town it up, for me to even seriously consider pairing up with him.

[Dannflor]

What's really annoying is I can't even talk about how annoyed I am about not being able to talk about the game I want to talk about with Dann because talking about how annoyed that makes me would out the game in question.

I am really curious about this and look forward to when you're able to talk about it

For now though, this sort of in depth thought process (and I see echoes of it in your other posts) is pretty town. It's too elaborate to fake, and I don't know that scum has a reason or need to fabricate so much

@People who scum read Ankamius

Does scum ever go for the gambit of persistently insisting that they don't really wanna partner up at all for the pre-dance? Apathy isn't necessarily alignment indicative but idk why scum would be that vocal about potentially just offing themselves for the greater good or whatever

[Nancy Drew 39]

Sigh.

I really don't want to have this Nancy Drew scumread that I have.

I have not so fond memories of you hard tunneling me in Minuet.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I am aware that you have previously brought up Nancy being scum. I'm also aware that RC popped in to say that he strongly townread Nancy, speaking from memory.

I myself believe it's indicative of her scumgame that she is 57 posts into her ISO and has barely mentioned reads yet, opting instead to talk more about the mechanics and to ask random questions of elaboration to various posts, seemingly without aim. I understand that her only scumgame on this site, Heroes Wanted, was characterized by a similar focus on mechanics in lieu of the early game reads that I expect from town Nancy.

I focus heavily on mechanics, when it’s relevant, so that would be kind of NIA for me.

[Krazy]

I liked his 707 at the time but I haven't really been in love with most of his posts since then

I thought the nancy read was wrong but I felt like I knew where he was coming from, and other than that it seemed fine given the game state

still think PB is a harder read so nullscum seemed fine, and while I have cooled significantly on Alisae and Vedith, I thought townreading them in the first thousand posts was basically fine

so idk

[Ankamius]

Fair enough, although I guess I would still say -- the most obvtown pair is going to die, and I still kinda don't get why you think the town is way worse off with that being before we start lynching rather than after we lynch two pairs and maybe risk a second pair getting lynched by a desperate scumread player like vedith

like my "no lynch" argument was basically for this exact scenario

I think going into second dance with more than 12 players is just inherently bad for town, honestly

I'm very wary of letting scum have that much influence in who doesn't get a voice in the game anymore before we maximize what we can get from everyone still alive

If we measure the game in % progress where 100% means a town win, then we are giving scum the tools to potentially cripple us by removing potentially two players with the highest ability to increase towns progress before they have the proper influence to use what flips are already there to increase the progress bar.

Does that metaphor make sense?

[Ankamius]

@People who scum read Ankamius

Does scum ever go for the gambit of persistently insisting that they don't really wanna partner up at all for the pre-dance? Apathy isn't necessarily alignment indicative but idk why scum would be that vocal about potentially just offing themselves for the greater good or whatever

I get scumread for the dumbest shit every game, it would not surprise me to see like 3 or 4 people scumread me for this exact reason

[Nancy Drew 39]

I understand that her only scumgame on this site, Heroes Wanted, was characterized by a similar focus on mechanics in lieu of the early game reads that I expect from town Nancy.

I know you're still in catchup mode so I don't really want to poke too much, but I feel like one of your recent-ish games with Nancy, Boundaries of Reality, featured a Nancy that opened the game with several mech points.

Exactly, which is why I strongly prefer those types of games, as I often don’t have strong scumreads in early game and tend to fare much better in games with different or complex mechanics. The worst games for me, are the basc or traditional ones.

[Krazy]

I think going into second dance with more than 12 players is just inherently bad for town, honestly

I'm very wary of letting scum have that much influence in who doesn't get a voice in the game anymore before we maximize what we can get from everyone still alive

If we measure the game in % progress where 100% means a town win, then we are giving scum the tools to potentially cripple us by removing potentially two players with the highest ability to increase towns progress before they have the proper influence to use what flips are already there to increase the progress bar.

Does that metaphor make sense?

I mean... in previous runs of this setup, "scum kill IC"

I feel like town will have a lot more information from the nightkill, and they will have an IC at that point.

So I think the conversation and discussion at that point will be more interesting and therefore more informative.

Also, it's not like we won't get those player's perspectives. We will still have what they say in pre-dance.

Basically I just don't want vedith lolhammering someone dance 1 AFTER we spend 8 days hammering out an optimized lynch order because that would just be so tilting I [do not want to threaten replacing out, but my WIM would plummet in such a scenario]

basically I want to mitigate any scenario that would make me and the rest of the town too demoralized to win the game, even if it got us one low-hanging scum

fuck I'm ranting about mech again aren't I

[Nancy Drew 39]

btw, heroes wanted is a bit different in the mech sense in that her part in that exchange was discussing employing a pretty blatant pro-scum strategy with her scumpartner and just tunneling on that for a good chunk of the game

I had no idea what I was doing but that was also true for Undertale. Did you ever check out that game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I actually need to go to sleep. Please try not to double the number of pages again.

Top of page 14 is my bookmark.

okay see you on page 134

[Krazy]

like this probably isn't the best way to frame it, but I want town to play this game that it is the most fun for as many people as possible,

not just fun for vedith who gets to do whatever the fuck he wants after we lynch someone in dance 1

[Ankamius]

Well vedith voting at all at 14p is just a stupid idea in every scenario so

It's the same problem that worries me about this setup: Scum getting the 8 coins, instalynching at 14p, then scum killing the most impactful town pairing and making the 8 coin lady the IC

It's really not worth it because it makes the IC thing meaningless

[Krazy]

idk if I mentioned this but I signed up for the first game before really mentally processing the coins stuff and I really wish it just was not in this setup at all

[Nancy Drew 39]

anyways

I'm liking what Moment has had to say so far, even taking the Nancy stuff out; he can be the first gentleman townread I have

He would probably even be a worse match for me than DT, if that’s even possible. Our playstyles would just clash too much.

[Krazy]

It's really not worth it because it makes the IC thing meaningless

I mean that's precisely why it's worth it for scum, because they can just throw IC on firebringer if vedith was in fact scum here

I need to find a way to stop talking about the possibilities in dance 1 but I guess I don't see why you can't recognize that I pretty genuinely did not want dance 1 to be really fucking stupid for town even if you disagree with my conclusions

[Ankamius]

btw, heroes wanted is a bit different in the mech sense in that her part in that exchange was discussing employing a pretty blatant pro-scum strategy with her scumpartner and just tunneling on that for a good chunk of the game

I had no idea what I was doing but that was also true for Undertale. Did you ever check out that game?

Are you talking about the game here that was a colossal train wreck that was about 5 months of pure torture as I had to watch my sanity slip away until finally I got solo endgamed despite getting probably the most amazing role I've ever seen on the site because one other player decided that I shouldn't ever get any use out of my role?

Because I try to ignore that game ever existing tbh

[Ankamius]

It's really not worth it because it makes the IC thing meaningless

I mean that's precisely why it's worth it for scum, because they can just throw IC on firebringer if vedith was in fact scum here

I need to find a way to stop talking about the possibilities in dance 1 but I guess I don't see why you can't recognize that I pretty genuinely did not want dance 1 to be really fucking stupid for town even if you disagree with my conclusions

I understood the implications before anybody else did

That's why it pissed me off to no end that Firebringer rolled the 8 coin lady and pissed it away like he did

[Nancy Drew 39]

How you feel about Allo, Nancy?

I still think he’s kind of scummy. I feel slightly better about Urist, not a lot though. I think his alignment will become clearer as the game progresses.

[Ankamius]

Like I even said that we might have to go with your plan, which is suboptimal, because of that fuckup

[Ankamius]

Well... Specifically the action, not him entirely >_>

Sorry, I worded that badly