Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Ankamius]

Nancy

, say something positive or game-advancing and people will be more apt to listen.

Not that you're not doing this - but when you post something like

"this game is lost"

then it's a disconnect and a source for people to think you're producing a scum narrative.

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

we only have two pairings set up

there's still plenty of room to create a won gamestate

[Taly]

RC

and I have a lot of experience together and I just wanted to see if partnering with him would be optimal here.

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

eh. I could've reacted better. I see your stance. I have reason to think you're both town, even though I don't really like either of your approaches here.

[Dannflor]

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

I think this whole fiasco has eased their paranoia, which makes it less likely for a yolo bombing to occur. If they're able to work together in the PT, the pairing could turn really good

Does anyone object to me asking Nancy to the dance? soon™

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, I suggested Ank/RC because I was proposing it as a final 10 pairing.

So saying I suggested RC pair Ank for them to divebomb each other is unfair.

Weren’t you reading their posts to each other? You were basing it on your reads on them, INDIVIDUALLY, not how they would coordinate together and that’s why I’m doubling and tripling down on why that’s so important. The person you pair with, has tremendous power to impact the game, and that isn’t a good thing when two of your townreads scumread each other, is it?

[Ankamius]

RC

and I have a lot of experience together and I just wanted to see if partnering with him would be optimal here.

like

sorry for creating this situation and pissing a lot of you off

but I don't regret this, I think that it's better to have the damage be isolated to pre-dance rather than take over first dance.

eh. I could've reacted better. I see your stance. I have reason to think you're both town, even though I don't really like either of your approaches here.

I've always been open to being convinced that RC is town

I think the evidence supports otherwise, but I'm also well aware that I'm not exactly the best person to sort him

the part that really concerns me is if RC is town, I'm pretty sure this is the first time he has ever read me incorrectly

[Nancy Drew 39]

In what world am I wrong here? Do you honestly think that the two of them, just by magically sharing a PT, is suddenly going to change their reads on each other?

I don't care if Ank convinces RC that she's the Easter bunny, the fact people are dramatically over reacting to something and giving the town a massive negative attitude to already losing, or town being doomed is fucking tragic.
Even if they walk dance 1, dance 2, dance 15 or whatever, it doesn't mean shit right now.

It’s still bad for town, whether you see that or not.

[Vedith]

It’s still bad for town, whether you see that or not.

For a start, we don't know officially on alignments (as town, of course). secondly, there's no evidence that it will actually happen.
So no, I don't know if it's bad for town. It could be a blessing to town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Your reasons are valid, but I don't see why you're pairing with

RC

if you're entertaining leaving in the first place?

I get where this confusion came from.

That changed when I started getting a sense of where the gamestate was at and how scum were fitting into it. I'm pretty confident now that I'll still be able to make a difference towards building a winning gametstate for town even without making it past first dance.

How so?

I don't think I'm that far off with my reads

the problem is more who in my PoE list is actually scum and who is just town that I can't see as town yet

A lot of slots aren’t posting, so that doesn’t help too much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

even if he doesn't actually succeed with that, it's still a huge diversion and you should know me well enough that I'm not going to just let him get away with that without getting up in his face back

that's essentially the same thing, except with a lot more thread vomit attached

The point is that he doesn’t have the same power to get you lynched. Leaving one’s partner, is equivalent to a desperado type of thing.

[Ankamius]

But by pairing up with him, you’ve handed him that power, don’t you see? Had he paired with me OTOH, he would have not had the power to take you out, because then he’d actually have had to persuade people to lynch you.

even if he doesn't actually succeed with that, it's still a huge diversion and you should know me well enough that I'm not going to just let him get away with that without getting up in his face back

that's essentially the same thing, except with a lot more thread vomit attached

The point is that he doesn’t have the same power to get you lynched. Leaving one’s partner, is equivalent to a desperado type of thing.

I don't doubt that regardless of whether he succeeds or not, he will waste a lot of effort on trying

[Nancy Drew 39]

I’m upset because I think they’re going to take each other out in 1st Dance, where as had they partnered with others, they’d have to convince others, so that would have been a lot less likely to happen, so I think we’re losing likely two top towns, right off the bat, so I don’t understand why people are telling me not to feel pessimistic about that.

I think this whole fiasco has eased their paranoia, which makes it less likely for a yolo bombing to occur. If they're able to work together in the PT, the pairing could turn really good

Does anyone object to me asking Nancy to the dance? soon™

Probably Allo and Moment.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s still bad for town, whether you see that or not.

For a start, we don't know officially on alignments (as town, of course). secondly, there's no evidence that it will actually happen.
So no, I don't know if it's bad for town. It could be a blessing to town.

How could it be a blessing?

[Vedith]

How could it be a blessing?

How could 1 of them being scum and the other walking out be a blessing?
Not really sure how to answer this so I'll just pretend you never asked.

[Taly]

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

No one appears to scumread you so far. Nothing you have said has even remotely pinged me. I’m not sure why you’d be paranoid about

my

townreading you, in particular?

And you know I can’t elaborate on that.

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1)

Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.

2)

I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.

3)

I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

Taly what are your thoughts on Dannflor?

Spoiler: Here Is What I've Written On My Readslist About Him

Dannflor *Volatile*

+

Read progression is very natural with

me/Urist

, as he's shifted his thoughts without letting a disagreement or opinion influence them.

+

Reevaluating thoughts and continually putting forth more thinking on both reads, pair ideas, and setup without unnecessary guard.

+

Engaging with a lot of people and not sticking to a certain topic or niche in the game

+

I don't have strong reasons for this townread, but nothing has struck out to me as scum

Dann

is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

I probably forgot to note anything else, but he's in the

"Town To Some Degree"

category, and while not my first partner pick, I guess he's an option?

Nancy with Krazy and Taly with PvtUrist is pretty good

Why

Me+PvtUrist

? And

Krazy+Nancy

, if you thought

Krazy

was my best option?

Dann/Taly is a locktown pairing I think

We just need to decide on one more

Can you tell me how

Dann

is locktown from your perspective?

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Can you stop pretending that the last 100 pages don't exist? It reads as very disingenuous, and if you're not understanding people's viewpoint of me now, then how about you ask questions or ISO?

Dann / x
x / Taly
Firebringer / Vedith
ND / Krazy?

Need to fill in those xs

I'm lonely D:

What don't you like about them Taly?

I don't know what prompted people's changes in ideal pairings? I don't disagree? But I don't know what happened?

I'm still considering you as a partner?

[Taly]

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1) Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.
2) I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.
3) I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

To note; I'm happy with the townreads??? As long as I understand them... and can tell if they're genuinely guessed or disingenuously informed.

[Krazy]

Have you considered accepting?

I think my original reasoning still holds true

[Nancy Drew 39]

How could it be a blessing?

How could 1 of them being scum and the other walking out be a blessing?
Not really sure how to answer this so I'll just pretend you never asked.

Well you’re assuming that’s the case, I’m not.

[Ankamius]

Nancy

do you still think we are both town

[Vedith]

Well you’re assuming that’s the case, I’m not.

When the fuck did I assume it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

I think if you pair with Taly over me, the chances of that happening increase exponentially.

I think Taly is the most widely obvtownread lady - if not player - in this setup. Not a single person in this game, has said otherwise.

Literally this is the one thing I was trying to avoid lol... cue paranoia.

Why am I town again?

No one appears to scumread you so far. Nothing you have said has even remotely pinged me. I’m not sure why you’d be paranoid about

my

townreading you, in particular?

And you know I can’t elaborate on that.

It's not your townread in particular, it's the universal townread.

This is a game where pocketing - more than usual - a viable strategy. If I'm being townread without much stated reason OR protest, this tells me multiple things:

1)

Scum know exactly what they want to do with me... Either IC me, NK me, or keep me alive to generate suspicion or WIFOM.

2)

I lose the ability to filter out people's reads and motives since everyone sees me in the same manner, that is - if they don't reason their townread on me.

3)

I become neutralized and predictable - with it being increasingly difficult for me to tell if I'm being pocketed or sweet talked....

...which is very possible, since I've had at least 1 game experience with half the playerlist here.

Taly what are your thoughts on Dannflor?

Spoiler: Here Is What I've Written On My Readslist About Him

Dannflor *Volatile*

+

Read progression is very natural with

me/Urist

, as he's shifted his thoughts without letting a disagreement or opinion influence them.

+

Reevaluating thoughts and continually putting forth more thinking on both reads, pair ideas, and setup without unnecessary guard.

+

Engaging with a lot of people and not sticking to a certain topic or niche in the game

+

I don't have strong reasons for this townread, but nothing has struck out to me as scum

Dann

is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

I probably forgot to note anything else, but he's in the

"Town To Some Degree"

category, and while not my first partner pick, I guess he's an option?

Nancy with Krazy and Taly with PvtUrist is pretty good

Why

Me+PvtUrist

? And

Krazy+Nancy

, if you thought

Krazy

was my best option?

Dann/Taly is a locktown pairing I think

We just need to decide on one more

Can you tell me how

Dann

is locktown from your perspective?

I sincerely doubt that Taly is obvtown.

Can you stop pretending that the last 100 pages don't exist? It reads as very disingenuous, and if you're not understanding people's viewpoint of me now, then how about you ask questions or ISO?

Dann / x
x / Taly
Firebringer / Vedith
ND / Krazy?

Need to fill in those xs

I'm lonely D:

What don't you like about them Taly?

I don't know what prompted people's changes in ideal pairings? I don't disagree? But I don't know what happened?

I'm still considering you as a partner?

Yes, given things I can’t discuss, I now totally understand your paranoia here.

Sorry, if the formatting is messed up here. :/

[Dannflor]

Dann is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

Hi! I'll engage with you

I'm trying not to do full reads lists anymore because I'm not so sure outlining those helps town more than it hurts now that we're nearing the end of the pre-dance, however, I'll answer specific questions about anyone or anything if you have them.

Okay, so Taly is really really town from the last few pages if somebody still hasn't caught that yet.

Regardless of your thoughts on Nancy, he's been purposefully trying to quell the rabid circular fighting surrounding Nancy without stemming any actual discussion. Continuing to basically flame each other while Nancy has (theoretically?) placed out is just going to go in circles and not accomplish anything. It's similar to how the Allo/Vedith interaction was going earlier. Firebringer/Nancy engaging is never going to produce anything useful, and continual focus on this one point is just going to grind things to a halt if Nancy is indeed replacing out. His concern with the direction of the game too is a very town way of looking at the game.

I'm comfortable slotting this into confident town reads now tbh

This is the original reason I started town reading you btw. More recently, I like the way you've approached giving out reads and how careful you're being. I don't think it's motivated by scum!"I gotta be careful with how I word and place my reads here," but more town!"I want to be helpful and analyze the game but I don't want to give scum too much information."

Also, your paranoia about getting town-read town-pings me too. If you're scum, I don't think you make as big of a deal about it because it makes it easy for you to coast through the game and then just defend yourself using the WIFOM argument later.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Dann is a volatile read because I want one-on-one speak with him a bit more so I can sort and understand his viewpoint further.

Hi! I'll engage with you

I'm trying not to do full reads lists anymore because I'm not so sure outlining those helps town more than it hurts now that we're nearing the end of the pre-dance, however, I'll answer specific questions about anyone or anything if you have them.

Okay, so Taly is really really town from the last few pages if somebody still hasn't caught that yet.

Regardless of your thoughts on Nancy, he's been purposefully trying to quell the rabid circular fighting surrounding Nancy without stemming any actual discussion. Continuing to basically flame each other while Nancy has (theoretically?) placed out is just going to go in circles and not accomplish anything. It's similar to how the Allo/Vedith interaction was going earlier. Firebringer/Nancy engaging is never going to produce anything useful, and continual focus on this one point is just going to grind things to a halt if Nancy is indeed replacing out. His concern with the direction of the game too is a very town way of looking at the game.

I'm comfortable slotting this into confident town reads now tbh

This is the original reason I started town reading you btw. More recently, I like the way you've approached giving out reads and how careful you're being. I don't think it's motivated by scum!"I gotta be careful with how I word and place my reads here," but more town!"I want to be helpful and analyze the game but I don't want to give scum too much information."

Also, your paranoia about getting town-read town-pings me too. If you're scum, I don't think you make as big of a deal about it because it makes it easy for you to coast through the game and then just defend yourself using the WIFOM argument later.

Tbf to Taly, I completely understand where his paranoia is coming from, so I don’t scumread him for it. I unfortunately cannot explain my reasoning for it though.

[Dannflor]

Tbf to Taly, I completely understand where his paranoia is coming from, so I don’t scumread him for it. I unfortunately cannot explain my reasoning for it though.

I town read him for his paranoia anyways

[Nancy Drew 39]

Tbf to Taly, I completely understand where his paranoia is coming from, so I don’t scumread him for it. I unfortunately cannot explain my reasoning for it though.

I town read him for his paranoia anyways

If people who had no meta with me, townlocked me, I’d probably be wondering as well. In my case, I’m far more likely to get wrongly pushed by scum, frequently to their detriment.

[Taly]

If people who had no meta with me, townlocked me, I’d probably be wondering as well.

This is a good thing to watch over that I didn't initially think about.