schadd_'s Large Normal Review, January 2019

[implosion]

16p
12:4
i can perhaps find a backup mod

town:
town mason x 3
town jailkeeper
town ascetic jailkeeper
town odd-night neapolitan
6x vanilla townie
goon x2
maf novice watcher
maf odd-night rolecop

welcome to mini X: i'll figure out some flavor to do!

wart

modded by: schadd

reviewers: reviewers
shoutout to: charli xcx

Spoiler: list

list

Spoiler: reveals

playername, lynched / died D/N1, was a role

Spoiler: events

evence

rules, adapted from nexus's

--most important rule: be nice and don't be mean--

general:

- Please adhere to the site rules.
- Do not discuss this game of mafia outside of this thread.
- Day phases will last 2 weeks (or until a lynch is achieved).
- Night Phases will last 48 hours maximum. On any given night, if all players PM me that they are okay to speed up the night, it will end sooner.
- During night phase, no talking may be done in the thread.
- Do not quote PM's from the mod at all (real or fabricated).

This includes specific timestamps; please ask me if you're uncertain whether something breaks this rule.

Paraphrasing is acceptable.
- If you have any questions about your role, or the game, feel free to PM the mod.
- "Bah" posts are not allowed.
- If you break any of these rules, you will probably be modkilled.

voting / player actions:

- Vote either with vote tags (VOTE: schadd) or with bold (

vote: schadd

). Note that I didn't include the underscore in my username; you may choose to use a string that will uniquely identify a player to me instead of the exact thing.
- Don't try to confuse me with your votes.
- You may vote No Lynch to Not Lynch.
- A lynch will occur once a majority decision is reached. If no majority is reached by deadline, then no lynch shall occur.
- Following a lynch, it is twilight. You may continue to post until I lock the thread and declare it night.
- If nobody dies for 3 consecutive day and night phases, the town will win.
- If you have a Night Action, you may submit it from Night 1 and each subsequent Night (or whichever nights are specified by the role).

activity:

- You are expected to post at least once every 48 hours. If you haven't posted for 48 hours, I shall prod you. If you do not respond to the prod within 24 hours (either in thread if it's Day, or via PM during the Night) then I will replace you.
- As well, if you require more than three prods, I will force-replace you.
-

If you decide to replace out, PLEASE PM me and don't post in thread after doing so - if you want to rescind the replacement BLEASE PM ME AGAIN and dont post in thread until i have been like "ok np"

mechanics:

-

Aquamarine, 21B35F

is my color. Please don't use it.
- No impossible/hard to read text, or cryptography. For example, I would prefer that no font size smaller than the one you're reading now be used.
- The mod may make mistakes - please point out any mistakes gently. Mistakes will be corrected where possible, but sometimes mistakes are made that cannot be reversed. These will stand as final to be commiserated over after the game.
- If you need to get the mod's attention, either PM me, or bold the text you wish to draw to my attention.
- I reserve the right to alter/remove/add any rules as I see fit. You will, of course, be notified if that happens, however.

Mafia will be able to communicate with each other during day phases.

There will be 12 town and 4 mafia.

Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor

sample VT PM:

Welcome to Mini NSBCHOUNWXOUCSXH! You are a

Vanilla Townie.

You have no abilities during night phases but may talk and vote during the Day.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Town Mason.

You and two other players (whom you know to be Town Masons) may talk to each other at any time in this thread.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Town Jailkeeper.

Each night, you may visit somebody to protect them from a night kill and to prevent any night actions they may use from succeeding.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Town Ascetic Jailkeeper.

Each night, you may visit somebody to protect them from a night kill and to prevent any night actions they may use from succeeding. non-killing actions that target you will fail.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Town Odd-Night Neapolitan.

On odd-numbered nights (i.e., 1, 3, 5, ...) you may investigate a player to learn whether or not they are a vanilla townie.

You win when all threats to the town are eliminated.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded green text says.

.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Goon

. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Novice Watcher

. On nights after the first one, you may investigate a player to see who targeted them that night. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

. On odd-numbered nights (i.e., 1, 3, 5, ...) you may investigate a player to learn the name of their role. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Welcome, names, to your lair! This thread will be open to talk and submit actions at any time.

Spoiler: name's PM

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Goon

. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Spoiler: name's PM

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Goon

. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Spoiler: name's PM

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Novice Watcher

. On nights after the first one, you may investigate a player to see who targeted them that night. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

Spoiler: name's PM

Welcome to Mini 3! You are a

Mafia Odd-Night Rolecop

. On odd-numbered nights (i.e., 1, 3, 5, ...) you may investigate a player to learn the name of their role. You may talk to your partners in [PT link] at any time, and you may also talk and vote during Day phases.

You win when either mafia control half the vote during a Day phase or when all townies are dead, or nothing can prevent one of these scenarios from happening.

Please confirm by telling me what the bolded red text says, or by posting in your mafia PT.

anyone who does not use their investigative role may commit a nightkill each night.

Welcome, [playername, playername, playername] to your masonry. All three of you are town and received the same PM, I promise. You may talk here at any time, and may not submit a factional kill during night phases.

[player] is a vanilla townie.
[player] is not a vanilla townie.
you have received no result.

[player] is a {mason, jailkeeper, odd-night neapolitan}
[player] is vanilla
you have received no result

[player(s)] visited [player] last night
no one visited player last night
you have received no result

[schadd_]

h

[implosion]

welcome to mini X:

[mhsmith0]

Off the top of my head, I'd think this game heavily swings on whether the two jailkeepers cc and mislynch each other. Otherwise you've got 6 town pr's, and reasonably likely a clear from the neapolitan somewhere along the line.

Wolves need 4-5 mislynches to win (only 4 is realistic but with double jailkeepers, there's a LOT of kill-stopping power floating around), and the vt pool is 6. Lynch pool grows to 7 if you think they can get a jk lynch.

Initial instinct is townsided, but I also recall seeing a bunch of truly lol tier villages in large normals, so I should probably go back and look at some history on this front before actually judging. I'll have more to say sometime tonight.

[mhsmith0]

The novice watcher is a pretty claimable wolf role and may help to id some prs, so that's at least a bit helpful as well.

[schadd_]

yeah i guess the poe is tight thinking like that

jailkeepers get lynched sometimes, ctrl f on the normal archive indicates that it has happened with 2/9 town jailkeepers. im thinking about changing nea to n2 n3 gunsmith; between that, the weird counterclaim (probably not a huge consideration, duplicate roles in larges are common i think) and ascetic the danger of lynching jailer should be a little higher

masons have been lynched 3 times that i can find :x (out of like 100 masons that have existed in normals)

gunsmith gets lynched similar rate to jailer

i think those collectively add up to 1.5 ish extra vts in the lynchpool

[schadd_]

for reference vts get lynched about 1/3 of the time it seems

[schadd_]

i think its very likely that at least 1 killed gets stopped, maybe more. like if a mason claims early they are going to get killed and jailed a lot of the time

[mhsmith0]

Sorry got a bit backed up w other stuff. Should check 8n tomorow night.

[implosion]

\

[mhsmith0]

So single ball large normal games…
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=37208

208 – scum win, 14/4, 3 scum survived
Motion detector, 2 masons, 1-shot vig, jailkeeper
Against 3 goons and a 1-shot strongman

207 – town win, mylo, 14/4
Weak roleblocker, tracker, non-consecutive jk, willbooster (?)
Against 2 goons, roleblocker, odd night Neapolitan

205 – scum win, 13/4, 3 survived
Jk, bp, bp enabler, gunsmith, macho IC, rolecop
Against 2 goons, a 2-shot cop (nice troll role btw), bp traitor

203 – scum win, 16/4, 3 survived
1-guilty cop, weak vig, IC, non-consecutive doctor, 2-shot vig, plus some hood coordination potential
Against 2 goons, gunsmith, rolestopper

202 – scum win, 13/4, 1 survived
Weak vig, joat (rolecop, vanilla cop, Neapolitan), motion detector, joat (commuter, friendly neighbor, neighborizer), gunsmith, universal backup
Against 2 goons, universal backup, ninja

199 – scum win, 13/4, 1 survived
Vanilla cop, mason, mason bg, vig, gunsmith
Against 2 goons, loved traitor, motion detector

198 – town win (sweep!), 12/3
Macho day 3 IC, Neapolitan, even roleblocker, doctor, joat (track, voyeur, follow)
Against goon, encryptor, stalker (??)

197 – scum win, 13/3, 1 survived
Night 3 vig, night 1 vig, bp enabler, 1-shot bp Neapolitan, rolecop, 1-shot bp night 5 vig, 1-shot bp odd night doc
Against goon, 1-shot bp, night 5 strongman

[mhsmith0]

In terms of overall balance, it's probably reasonably comparable to the norm in aggregate. I am a bit concerned about the inherent swing of it, and would *probably* recommend switching it to a 13/4 instead of a 12/4 (this avoids "wolves can win on 4th mislynch" type scenarios) and then either boosting wolf power a bit or nerfing town power a bit. Unless it's explicitly envisioned as a higher swing "wolves have a big edge if they can dodge all the jk's, and they lose out if they can't" sort of thing
I'm also not opposed to giving wolves some explicit anti-blocking power, even if it's something relatively minor like a night 1 strongman or the like.

[schadd_]

In terms of overall balance, it's probably reasonably comparable to the norm in aggregate. I am a bit concerned about the inherent swing of it, and would *probably* recommend switching it to a 13/4 instead of a 12/4 (this avoids "wolves can win on 4th mislynch" type scenarios) and then either boosting wolf power a bit or nerfing town power a bit. Unless it's explicitly envisioned as a higher swing "wolves have a big edge if they can dodge all the jk's, and they lose out if they can't" sort of thing
I'm also not opposed to giving wolves some explicit anti-blocking power, even if it's something relatively minor like a night 1 strongman or the like.

i see that, yea. adding a vt also decreases the PR density which i sort of want

how would you feel about +1 vt, rolecop->goon and novice watcher -> watcher?

[mhsmith0]

Rolecop->goon is a bigger impact than novice watcher-> watcher, and it’s overall pr dense enough that id probably want to give wolves that rolecop.

Removing the chance of wolf win on mislynch #4 cuts swing but also cuts wolf equity, id be somewhat inclined to give them some kind of explicit compensation for it.

Maaaaybe as simple as making the town Neapolitan even night instead of odd night (so it gets nerfed AND the wolf rolecop is sort of claimable under duress without being autolynch)?

Wolves then have one blatantly claimable role and a second role that probably passes the sniff test, which I think is reasonable compensation for the stack of town power at work.

[mhsmith0]

Maybe also c9nsider dropping masons down to night talk only tho that might be too much nerf.

[mhsmith0]

Anyway curious to see what your current thoughts are.

[mhsmith0]

Also am curiuos what you're going to flip for role PMs for masons in particular if it becomes clear masonry is 3 ppl and/or whether it's clear daytalk exists.

[schadd_]

oh wait i just nerfed wolves twice lmao

novice watcher -> multitasking watcher, odd-night rolecop -> 3-shot rolecop ?

note that i changed neap to night 2 and 3 gunsmith, that kind of got buried in text

[schadd_]

i dont flip role PMs, i would just put "town mason". i also wanna keep daytalk for masons just because it is objectively more fun

to clarify:
mason mason mason
jailer
ascetic jailer
n2 n3 gunsmith
7 VT
goon goon
multitasking watcher
3shot rolecop

[mhsmith0]

remind me what multitasking watcher does again? just means u can watch and shoot, or something else?

i think it's probably about balanced at this poitn, more town-friendly than some others that have run but wolves have been highly successful so that may be entirely fine *shrugs*

[schadd_]

watch and shoot on the same night yeah

[mhsmith0]

/pass with some reservations. It's realistic that this will overpower town and make it too easy on them, especially if the three-man masonry really gets going. I think I'd prefer to see something like a night 1 strongman so wolves can at least butcher their favorite target n1 but I can pass it without. Too many lol outcomes by towns to be massively paranoid about the potential for a town steamroll (obv can happen, but a good old fashioned lol cc battle could happen too)

glgl

[schadd_]

thank you

if it goes ridiculously well for town i will take it on the chin myself. for what its worth i havent seen masons or neighborhoods serve town immensely in recent memory and famously i had a d1 mason lynch in a recent mini

IMPLOSION GET THIS IN SIGNUPS YOU UTTER BAFFOON

[mhsmith0]

I mean I’m explicitly adjusting my expectations for the atrocity that has been town performance in a lot of large normals, with the realistic (tho not certain) chance that it’ll be chaos city oth multiple blockers messing things up at night, plus the watcher claim being decent.

[schadd_]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78722
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78723
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=78724