Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[DoubtingThomas]

I think I remember you saying me being lost is more scum indicative?

Yeah, based on

Spoiler:

how I feel about your play in game 5

I feel like you are more likely to ask people to give you direction as scum, and that's kinda like how I felt you played the end of pre-dance, particularly irt my slot

you seem more strong-willed as town, although as you said, those games are not your most recent play I guess

no i am more strong-willed as scum imo

[Taly]

DT

, who are your scumreads?

[Krazy]

Yeah I asked FakeGod not to release our PT.

But I am also okay taking that as a no, PB.

[Nancy Drew 39]

sup

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet.

I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Why haven’t you posted yet in your PT?

because i didn't log onto mafia scum?

wtf lol

You were posting in the main thread.

[Nancy Drew 39]

DT and moment both tbh. Eventhough I’m currently hardtownreading Dann, I don’t understand why he isn’t taking this into account. As far as I’m concerned, not posting in your PT/not doing anything to either help sort your partner/be sorted by them/giving reads’ post-flip is not pro-town irrespective of your alignment. Like we only have 5 days left, so everyone who’s town here, absolutely needs to be doing this.

Yea, this is awful. If Moment and the Brie are town this puts our odds at winning way down because this could be a good pair to have around, but we might have to flip it next just for information since it can't give us much with Moment MIA. I'm just hoping Moment comes back because I think Brie is pretty town rnow

+1

I’m glad we’re on the same page here. I did ask FG to prod her but as of yet, nothing.

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

i havent ever town read gamma

i have taly, krazy at pretty townie

dr worm i kinda tossed at town pile for liking his troll ass vibe. prob should reevalute soon. i also thought pink ball's tone was townie. i haven't scum read that for a while, but should reevalute. i am liking S_S, and i am not a fan of the way thebrie accepted moment's invitiation. i didn't like her excuse after intermission of how "she wasn't sure she can be back so she hastily accepted that" i mean.. that sounds like she was very preoccupied with surviving, which is odd because there are more gents so chances are she would always have an invitation even if S_S takes moment away from her. maybe she wanted moment to not be paired with S_S on purpose? this is something i should look at despite reading her tone pretty high town in intermission.

Nancy shold be reevaluated since i havent read your post in a while. i dont like the way you questioned me 'not posting in PT' like it was pretty clear i havent been on in the meantime and just posted here so what was the point of that question?

Never had a strong opinion on Dann, moment


who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

[DoubtingThomas]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

why are you leaning towards scum on moment if he didn't give you anything to read?

why did you only do meta on gamma?

[Something_Smart]

who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

Oh. Hmm. I want to townread this...

[Dannflor]

who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

Oh. Hmm. I want to townread this...

My first reaction too :/

[Something_Smart]

Thomas, when you're scum with daytalk, how well do you usually keep up with what's happening in the scum PT?

[Dannflor]

that sounds like she was very preoccupied with surviving, which is odd because there are more gents so chances are she would always have an invitation even if S_S takes moment away from her. maybe she wanted moment to not be paired with S_S on purpose? this is something i should look at despite reading her tone pretty high town in intermission.

I mean... were you not pretty occupied with surviving as well at the end of pre-dance? That's what most of your posts are about

[Dannflor]

were about*

[DoubtingThomas]

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster? Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

This post is a good look for Dann. I think confidently revisitng your previously town read and then analyzing it in a well-mannered and structured way is a good look. the fact that he points out my 'progression' is also a good look. i kinda didn't care about the game because i always prefer 12/12 phaes or maximum 36/12 phases and i always kinda get bored when a day phase lasts like a week or so. which is the case for like all the games here. that's why i haven't been playing here a lot. thought the set up was interesting here and i saw people i knew from MU so i joined. then i regretted it cuz i kinda got bored after a while, so i said "eh idc just kill me"

but then i innately hate losing/letting my alignment down just so i can be a bitch so then i stepped my game up to live as the best as i can. the progression is not shown because it was just an OOG reason for my mindset to have changed there :/

i want gamma dead. maybe brie. gonna read more

[DoubtingThomas]

Thomas, when you're scum with daytalk, how well do you usually keep up with what's happening in the scum PT?

believe me when i say this it's facts. i don't check PT if i don't check main game thread. i don't check main game thread if I am not logged in.

In one of the newbie games where i lived until f3, the game was decided to be compromised under host discretion because one of the other town members asked the host a question that spewed mafia already submitted his nk when i haven't logged on since long before that day phase ended

i just dont log on often on mafia universe

[DoubtingThomas]

mods keep prodding me like shit

i bet if we tally up who gets the most prods from a mod, i'd win that award

[DoubtingThomas]

Thomas, when you're scum with daytalk, how well do you usually keep up with what's happening in the scum PT?

believe me when i say this it's facts. i don't check PT if i don't check main game thread. i don't check main game thread if I am not logged in.

In one of the newbie games where i lived until f3, the game was decided to be compromised under host discretion because one of the other town members asked the host a question that spewed mafia already submitted his nk when i haven't logged on since long before that day phase ended

i just dont log on often on mafia

scum

[DoubtingThomas]

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

what are these few things you feel pink ball has done that is scummy?

does this mean you put other players at solid town?

[DoubtingThomas]

I originally gave DT a town read in #3418, which reading back, I believe are pretty weak reasons. The posts I outline in DT's ISO that I think are representative of towny thought processes... aren't that impressive? I may have too hastily lumped DT into my sudden strong PvT town read just due to DT's explanation in #3216 where he lowkey supported a PvT town. I'm not sure if that's something scum wouldn't point out that. The same goes for his other "towny" talking points.

#1265Gets referenced a lot when explaining town reads on the DT slot... and I don't get it? It's a bunch of gut/tone reads and then justification for not having to explain those.

i also partly dont like explaining every single small things that come to my mind because

1) chances are they are wrong
2) chances are my own opinion of them change later on
3) they clog up the thread unnecessarily we honestly don't need every single detail of thoughts that I have

now, if you accept my love reqeust and we get a lovers chat, i can, of course, explain all the little things you want

This actually pings me quite a bit. Sure, you can be like "scum would never wanna be this brazen and admit this," but I don't think that's a strong enough argument.

1) Town shouldn't care about being wrong. Rather, they shouldn't care about that potential making them look suspicious. Scum care if they're caught being wrong and the associatives look bad for them.
2) Opinion changes are natural and one of the hardest things in the game for scum to fake with authenticity.
3) Sure... But there's a difference between clogging up the thread unnecessarily with every single detail and just saying "x is town" and "x is scum" off of pure gut and tone reads.

My problem with DT is that the things people point to when they say he looks towny are fairly lazy and not proactive. His entire ISO is waiting for people to come to him and interact with him. Very rarely does he take the initiative in pressuring people and it doesn't look like he's trying to proactively solve the game. There's a lot of "engage with me," but not a lot of engaging that's actually solving.

Like, I actually am calling you a flat out liar about you claiming to come on at the same time as me.

how the fuck am i a liar?

i never fucking lie as either alignment

like as scum i would definitely scum read you for things i would scum read as town to begin with so i dont understand what you mean by calling me a liar lol

Stuff like this also makes me doubt the strength of town reads on him. I think people tend to like him for how genuine his reads seem, but their surface level enough that I don't see why it couldn't just as easily be faked by scum.

Look at his progression in the pre-dance too:

Spoiler:

i think i am at the point where i'd rather just out in pre dance if i dont get brie maybe

This pings me. Specifically because it's so noncommittal. RC and Ank were obv!town because it was blatantly obvious they both believed the other was scum and was willing to leave the dance to take the other one out. Here, DT suggests he might just stay out of the pre-dance since he scum reads both Gamma and SS. Hey! That might actually be good for town and it's obviously a town motivated thing to do. Except he's never gonna actually do this, so what's the point in saying this?

taly i am at the point where i can sheep you shamelessly


who should i pair up with

and who are your scum reads

can we like start talking about parnters

@everyone who doesnt have a partner

but that means i need an actual town partner

who wants to partner up with me :/

Gamma, are you town?

stop fucking fighting over nothing when your boi doesnt even have a partner and is about to die

You, Pvt, Allo, Gamma, me.

I'm annoyed Brie took Moment's invitation without waiting for him to okay it, but I feel like the fact that I waited and Brie didn't should make me clearly town.

I like this post

gamma, if ss doesn't accept my shit and take whoever you want, will you take me to da dance

I just don't like the progression from "maybe I should just sit out" to looking for reasons to town read one of SS or Gamma. This is the kind of desperation I don't like. I don't think it's genuine trying to figure out who among the last ladies is scummier or townies, it's just looking for reasons to town read one of them so he can look fine going to the dance with them.

I'm also concerned that DT isn't actually pushing anyone. Like SS/DT is probably gonna be the first or second lynch and yet... His big most recent wall post is just defending himself from Krazy's meta case. He isn't offering up alternatives, and idk what his scum reads even are atm. Gamma?

@Thomas,

which pair is your preferred first lynch? And why haven't you made any efforts to push there? What are your reads rnow? Is SS strong town? Have you guys interacted in your PT at all?

@SS,

I think you're pretty strongly town. What is your read on DT? Also, I know you're struggling because your scum reads are all strongly town read by someone. But who is your first lynch ideally if you had complete control? Me and Nancy? What if we both flipped town?

I really really don't think we should be lynching Moment/Brie first. I have Brie as pretty strongly town (something I should probably elaborate on when I have mroe sleep tomorrow) and while I don't have a good read on Moment, I really think the amount RC + Ank pushed for Moment!town + the fact Moment hasn't even posted yet means lynching there is a terrible idea. Obviously, inactivity is harmful either way, but we might be fucking up a really strong T/T pairing as Ank and RC thought without even letting Moment get her thoughts in. I feel like maybe scum saw Moment/Brie as a threat pre-dance and are now trying to quickly dispatch of them.

There's also the fact that the reads there feel... Pretty lackluster?

Nancy can't elaborate on her Brie read

, Gamma's scum reading Moment for... not answering some question 30 pages ago. I forget what else. It's just scaring me how this pairing is the first being pushed after RC and Ank died. At the very least, it shouldn't be the first flip imo.

VOTE: DT

Please don’t lump me in with any of this. Moment’s absence is definitely hurting the game, we can’t ignore that fact. There is only a little over 5 days left! And no, I can’t elaborate on Brie, because as I already told you in our PT, I don’t want to get into trouble. I’m kind of upset that you seem to have jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sure, I absolutely could elaborate on it but I don’t know how to do that without being in violation of site rules. Yes, it’s extremely frustrating but not wanting to risk a ban is /= to lacking reasons.

Whenever I say in any game ever, that I can’t elaborate or discuss anything, that is ALWAYS what I mean

. Krazy, I think was bordering on doing something similar with you and since I also couldn’t comment on that, for similar reasons, I tried to nip it in the bud, because explaining it, is against the rules not just on here but on any mafia site. Capiche? God!

scummy overreaction, tbh

[Nancy Drew 39]

@DT, Brie, who are you currently scumreading?

i havent ever town read gamma

i have taly, krazy at pretty townie

dr worm i kinda tossed at town pile for liking his troll ass vibe. prob should reevalute soon. i also thought pink ball's tone was townie. i haven't scum read that for a while, but should reevalute. i am liking S_S, and i am not a fan of the way thebrie accepted moment's invitiation. i didn't like her excuse after intermission of how "she wasn't sure she can be back so she hastily accepted that" i mean.. that sounds like she was very preoccupied with surviving, which is odd because there are more gents so chances are she would always have an invitation even if S_S takes moment away from her. maybe she wanted moment to not be paired with S_S on purpose? this is something i should look at despite reading her tone pretty high town in intermission.

Nancy shold be reevaluated since i havent read your post in a while. i dont like the way you questioned me 'not posting in PT' like it was pretty clear i havent been on in the meantime and just posted here so what was the point of that question?

Never had a strong opinion on Dann, moment


who is left. vedith and firebringer? vedith can be scum although i liked the way firebringer threatened to leave the dance in case vedith votes with his high number of coins and the way she reacted to me asking her a question about it

You posted in the main thread, so why not in your PT? You don’t consider that a valid question?

Have you been reading the game? Vedith left Fire and both of them flipped town.

[DoubtingThomas]

At any rate, I’m hardtownreading Dann for 4610. I have good reason to think that this kind of passion he’s showing here about being leery of disregarding RC reads and being concerned about possibly mislynching moment/Brie never comes from scum!Dann. Do you agree @Krazy?

do you town read dann for anything frmo PT?

[DoubtingThomas]

i am thinking you mentioning dann's specific post 4610 to town read him is odd because you have a PT with him

[Something_Smart]

Dammit it's not a townslip then...

[Dannflor]

scummy overreaction, tbh

I thought you were down on Nancy for

not

being as emotional and stuff

[Something_Smart]

I kinda want to flip a coin that can only land heads up and just assume Thomas is town... maybe a F6 of us/Nannflor/TheMoment?

[Dannflor]

Nancy's sort of the same way, I've seen her push with real emotion in other games and I haven't seen much of it here. From my memory a lot of her reads have been lackluster.

nvm that was SS my b