Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[PvtUrist]

It's funny, because Krazy and Taly are the only ones alive I'm not entirely town reading

[Krazy]

Ok cool

What don't you like about Taly?

[Moment]

Nice to be back. As you can tell, I prefer my dances a bit slower than most.

[Moment]

MOMENTSBREAD does NOT MAKE TO ENDGAME so we KILL NOW!!

This I doubt. Looking at the most recent votecount, I can see that we've got two lynches left before LyLo, three left at most before the game is over.

VoteCount 2.7

Dr Worm - Pink Ball [0] -
Krazy - Taly [0] -
Dannflor - Nancy Drew 39 [0] -
Moment - TheBrie [0] -
PvtUrist - Gamma Emerald [0] -

Not Voting [10]

- Dr Worm, Pink Ball, Krazy, Taly, Dannflor, Nancy Drew 39, Moment, TheBrie, PvtUrist, Gamma Emerald

With 10 alive it takes 6 votes to lynch

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-02-24 01:00:00)

My pool for scum from beforehand I have no reason to doubt given the information I know so far. Unfortunately, it seems like Vedith and Firebringer left the dance. That leaves the pairing with my highest confidence of both being town as Dannflor / Nancy Drew, and even there I have some doubts. Similarly unfortunate, every other pairing has one person I consider town and one other I consider as likely needing to die. Correspondingly, that's Worm, Taly and Urist as compared to PB, Krazy and Gamma.


That being said, I have yet to review anything of what went on during this day, which may change my preferences when it comes to order. Already I can see that DT and PB were voting together on DT/SS's counterwagon, which is something to look into.

Either way, I am interested to hear who you believe your endgame pairings should be if not me and Brie.

[PvtUrist]

I will respond to your question in a Moment, Krazy

first, let's stop and appreciate what magnificant this is;

Spoiler:

ANKAMOUSE

AKIASAE

ALISAER

NACNY

ALLOWMANSTER and FREEBRANGER

DAMNFLOOR

RADIANTCOWBALLS

GAMMAMERALD

PINKBELLS

PINKYBULL

NANYC

DOUBLETOMAS

NANY

THEBREAD

DANNFORL

SOMETHING_SHART

PVIRUS

[PvtUrist]

So, beef with Taly.

1)I have this habit of tunneling non-confirmed conf-towns (such as Newbie 1905 vs foodcoats, Newbie 1907 vs Nauci, this game vs Dannflor, etc) and usually I'm proven otherwise.

2)The issue is the sheer amount of town-reads/lack of scum-reads in this game. This directs me towards; players that aren't as much of town reads (based off of tone/gut), and more experienced players.

The emphasise is that I'm having too many town reads, not enough scum reads, and a Krazy!Taly flip may or may not change that.

I want to know how other people are thinking in regards to flips. I didn't want to keep being inactive, and replacing out would be extremely rude. So this is what I've currently got.

[Krazy]

I'm not sure that 1 is really something that is against Taly, and if I was to summarize 2 it would be "Taly is kinda fencesitty"?

Because I kinda agree with 2 and I will bear it in mind. One of the reasons I wanted DT gone was so that I could actually have the time to sit down and metadive her. We've both agreed that the townreads thrown her way were often given too easily.

Earlier, you said PB had you "pocketed" -- can you expand on what this means? Because usually when Flavor Leaf says that in a game, ?as a joke?, the slot ends up flipping scum. But you are not Flavor Leaf and if you are townreading PB I'd like you to expand on your reasoning when you can.

[Krazy]

Wait am I misunderstanding your 2? 2 is "PoE"?

[Dannflor]

Spoiler:

pink ball's posts seem opportunistic

Oh ok I get the argument against lynching Moment and TheBrie first. I still think there's scum there.

@DT if I came and voted you, you would have said the same. Why the fuck defending you would be opportunistic

Oh ok I get the argument against lynching Moment and TheBrie first. I still think there's scum there.

@DT if I came and voted you, you would have said the same. Why the fuck defending you would be opportunistic

i am talking about how you seem to be okay with moment/thebrie/me to be lynched whenever one of us are getting pushed

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being mislynched, something that you clearly are not being able to do

like "ok ppl are scum reading DT. let's lynch moment/thebrie and then lynch DT ?"

thats scum 101

No, you dense mofo. If Moment/TheBrie flips red, people will get associations, I clearly stated that. That would save your ass of being

mislynched

, something that you clearly are not being able to do

dude. did u just scum slip me town

I'm townreading you, idiot. I have talked about people being mislynched since the begining of the game according to my reads

These interactions read really forced to me. They came out of completely nowhere and I noted in my PT with Nancy as they were happening that it looks like a DT/PB team trying to distance last minute because it looks like they might not get their Brie/Moment flip.

I don't understand pushing Brie/Moment right now under the premise that "they shouldn't reach end game." We're not at endgame yet, and given the current circumstances PB needs to go before anyone else imo

Also, there's this:

VOTE: Moment

By the way if by any chance DT flips scum don't @ me with "you were derailing his wagon" 'cause you guys don't know Moment/TheBrie's alignment

^^^
It's also not the first time PB has tried to pre-emptively defend himself or make himself look better:

Honestly, I think Dr Worm is town. It just depends on who is willing to be in a PT with him

I really want to pair with you and I see another viable option for me. But if the optimal course of action is to pair you with someone else, I think I'll accept worm's invitation and cry for the rest of the game 'cause scum will probably IC him and lynch me because I'm prob scum who ICed him

I expect the scumteam to have me as null in this game, specially after pairing with dr worm who, despite being townread now, it's easy to "change their mind" about him and mislynch us. Guess what fuckos: not gonna happen

[Dannflor]

I think #2510 and #2947 come from scum who has realized pocketing me and riding that pair to end game isn't actually going to pan out, so they'll take a widely town read player in Dr Worm who people generally like having around instead. Then, he'll paint it as an "easy mislynch" far far in advance as a pre-emptive defense for when they fall into the PoE.

VOTE: PB

[Nancy Drew 39]

DoubtingThomas, who was

Mafia

Gentleman

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Something_Smart, who was

Town

Lady

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Good there’s still hope we can pull this out.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma, interesting. What connection do you see between Moment and I and DT then?

Also it's time to get this moving along.
VOTE: Doubting Thomas

L-1

DT was consistently pushing both me and TB but voted me for most of that period and was up my ass. That tells me the TB push was likely distancing.
Also VOTE: TheBrie again

[Gamma Emerald]

DoubtingThomas, who was

Mafia

Gentleman

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Something_Smart, who was

Town

Lady

, has

left

in

Second Dance

.

Hey, cool. Sad that SS had to go for it to happen, but even still.

Look who finally arrived

[Dannflor]

DT was consistently pushing both me and TB but voted me for most of that period and was up my ass. That tells me the TB push was likely distancing.
Also VOTE: TheBrie again

No?

DT never voted you. He didn't vote anyone until #4957, where he voted Brie.

VOTE: thebrie

[Gamma Emerald]

That's my b but point still stands that he was up my ass there in a way that was not matched on TB.

[Dannflor]

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

So, in this post DT does say both Brie and Gamma are scum. The difference is he actually cases Brie here and I bolded a part towards the top where he says Gamma can actually be left alive. So I'd actually say he was pushing Brie more than you, Gamma.

Also good to note, right below the bolded portion, he has PB/Dr Worm as null. That, imo combined with his interactions with PB later make more sense as soft distancing.

[Gamma Emerald]

I really don't think so but don't have the capacity to go deep into what I was seeing but I will when I do.

[Pink Ball]

@Krazy I wouldn't hinted so hard my main if I was afraid of being scumread I was legitimately curious from your perspective in particular, that makes a lot of sense I think.

My theory of Moment/You is that you seem to have his pairing on your bottom three, but you will never push him at all. Like right now, when I haven't even explained my theory, you post a big wall where I'm bussing Moment as the first alternative. Not that those alternatives were ordered by preference, but the simple fact that you put it on first says something. What I mean is, you lynch DT/SS, they flip town, you then go for me/Worm instead of Moment/TheBrie, because from the begining of this day you started setting up that turn around on me. So is my theory wacky? No, it makes sense, based on my reads. So that's why I asked everyone if we could lynch Moment first.

[Pink Ball]

Fuck I didn't see the flip, now I look like an idiot.

Dann, sweetheart, I have defended all my townreads like that. Explain why do you think my interactions with DT seems fake? 'cause they're pretty legit if I could say so myself. I was saying that my reads have been pretty good this game and DT got me. I had him in my lynchpool until I played the ISO game Krazy did and I got almost every single game right, and reread DT's ISO and I thought he was town, so being confident on that read made me defend him.

Sorry, I was wrong, and Krazy is conftown for me now. Krazy if you want to lynch me I get it, but please consider that I'm flipping green and there's still two scumplayers; even if Moment is scum, there's a deepwolf between the sheep

[Pink Ball]

And @Dann, do you realize that DT was taking whatever he could to protect his scummates rather than himself? Him making that posts towards me to make them feel like distancing should be favouring me instead of damning.

Would scum!DT push TheBrie like that if paired with scum!Moment? Was he trying to get a townpair mislynched before dying or trying to make them mookt good after he flipped?

[Pink Ball]

Gotta go sleep, night night everybody. @Mr. Worm, let's talk about the flip on our lovers nest

[Pink Ball]

Why would I vote DT before Moment/TheBrie if I'm more inclined to believe that the second is a two scum pair vs DT who is paired to someone that could be town

One last thing: this is proof I was scumreading DT until I played Krazy's ISO game. This post was like 5-6 posts before playing it. I know I'm being a hypocrite since I thought Krazy could be Moment's partner because he was avoiding that lynch and I'm trying to be townread when I tried to avoid DT's lynch lmfao but whatever I have redeem my slot somehow so I have to share everything I can. My selfawareness is not scummy btw is just me sharing everything I think

[Pink Ball]

I think #2510 and #2947 come from scum who has realized pocketing me and riding that pair to end game isn't actually going to pan out, so they'll take a widely town read player in Dr Worm who people generally like having around instead. Then, he'll paint it as an "easy mislynch" far far in advance as a pre-emptive defense for when they fall into the PoE.

VOTE: PB

Omg I didn't read this, are you fucking blind? You're like assuming I know that you're town, when you were one of my biggest townreads and I was having fun. Letting you pair with Nancy was protown from my perspective, why the fuck would scum!me not try to insist more and put more effort in pairing with you? Scum!me pockets you 100% in that case sweetheart.

And aay what you want about Worm, I was absolutely right when I said I would become lynchbait if I paired with him. Exhibit A: you right now.

[Dannflor]

Omg I didn't read this, are you fucking blind? You're like assuming I know that you're town, when you were one of my biggest townreads and I was having fun. Letting you pair with Nancy was protown from my perspective, why the fuck would scum!me not try to insist more and put more effort in pairing with you? Scum!me pockets you 100% in that case sweetheart.

Okay, this is somewhat true, and I totally might be conf biasing here.

From my perspective however, it felt like the game's atmosphere was guiding me towards pairing with Nancy (largely due to RC and Ank I think), and I think you pushing to pair with me any more than you already did would have looked suspicious.

Because you did push quite a bit to pair with me and stated several times you 100% wanted to be with me

Oh Taly I think I never answered you: I want you with Urist 'cause at this point he's getting scumleaned/read by a lot of people and I'm pretty sure he's town and will be pushed by scum tomorrow. You and Nancy are good partners for him to avoid that. I would offer myself but I'm not widely townread like Nancy and you.

Also I still believe DanceFloor should ask me no matter what

I accept Dr. Worm's invitation

In fact you were insistent about it in one post and then the next you snap changed and decided Dr Worm would be better. And I just don't know if you could have feasibly fought for me any more than you did without it looking suspicious.

One last thing: this is proof I was scumreading DT until I played Krazy's ISO game. This post was like 5-6 posts before playing it. I know I'm being a hypocrite since I thought Krazy could be Moment's partner because he was avoiding that lynch and I'm trying to be townread when I tried to avoid DT's lynch lmfao but whatever I have redeem my slot somehow so I have to share everything I can. My selfawareness is not scummy btw is just me sharing everything I think

Okay, fair. This progression doesn't make as much sense from scum.

I'm tired. I really don't want you to be scum. There were just so many things you said leading up to the DT lynch that gut pinged me.

I need to take a step back and wait for other people to engage with this and tell me if I'm being insane or not because I'm second guessing myself more than ever right now and it's hard for me to interact with you because of my paranoia that maybe I was just being setup to be pocketed by you from early game

^^ holy run-on sentence. I need to sleep. First thing I'll do tomorrow is re-ISO DT with fresh eyes, make sure I'm not conf biasing on what i think of his interactions

[TheBrie]

@Mod

I'm going V/LA about 24 hours from now for 4 days.

Should have internet access, but it's not 100% guaranteed, and i'll be busy hanging out with people. (Actually leaving morning after, but time will be filled up with packing and sleeping)

I'm not entirely happy with Moment hanging around for four days without me, but now he's back I certainly don't want to leave yet. Both in leaving the dance, and asking for a replacement. I want to keep playing. I just don't know if I really can.
I need a time machine so I can be in two places at once. (Except time travel would let me solve the game, and that would be cheating. Better duplicate myself.)


I really want to to beleive Pinkball is sincere. Tone and logic both go that way. Which is leaving me with too few scum reads.