Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Pink Ball, I am really concerned with you wanting to lock in the endgame pairs just yet, before we know for sure who DT was likely protecting, because it’s pretty damn obvious he was.

Do you not see why this is relevant?

[Nancy Drew 39]

? I think I just said that I think it's Moment and Gamma, did I forget to submit that?

Oh sorry, I didn’t see that. I’m not convinced of moment scum, considering both RC and And were locktown on her. I was thinking Gamma could be scum but DT didn’t fall on his sword for her.

You also thought DT was town, when he was blatantly open wolfing, so I’m not thinking you’re reads are the best this game, sorry.

[Nancy Drew 39]

And no, the whole point is letting the last pairing go to endgame with enough time to make the right decision and not making the three pairings leave in a particular order. If we decide that you, Krazy, Nancy and Dann go to endgame, thebrie and moment leave and both flip town and we stop, it was a waste of time talking about endgame pairings. As I said, I think it's imposible that there's both scum in the endgame pairs I proposed, and if they are, then we will eventually lose either way 'cause the other three pairs (that includes mine) has much more scum equity. What we are doing here is accelerating things a little so if by any chance the game doesn't end at the named pairs leave.

Oh okay, I get it now. I haven’t fully woken up yet.

I obviously misunderstood.

[Pink Ball]

That's the point Nancy: if I'm wrong, an endgame pairing will have better chances to get the remaining deepwolf than with the remaining pairings as distractions and noise. I know I'm town and people has doubts on me: I'm making the endgame pairing lose time. Better leave as early as possible so they can focus

[Pink Ball]

? I think I just said that I think it's Moment and Gamma, did I forget to submit that?

Oh sorry, I didn’t see that. I’m not convinced of moment scum, considering both RC and And were locktown on her. I was thinking Gamma could be scum but DT didn’t fall on his sword for her.

You also thought DT was town, when he was blatantly open wolfing, so I’m not thinking you’re reads are the best this game, sorry.

I was scumreading him before I ISOed him, that was my fault. Don't judge me for getting paranoid when the game feels easy, everyone has done it here

[Pink Ball]

Ok so Nancy, Taly and me: Nancy/Dann and Taly/Krazy.

[Taly]

TheBrie+Moment

by all accounts looks like a lynch target by scum specifically.

They were the first to gather votes, and I feel like the rationality for

TheBrie

or

Moment

being scum was both fickle and mostly out of PoE/

TB+Moment

not interacting with the thread.

Also, when

Nancy+Dann

and

Me+Krazy

all had our votes on

DT's

pair -

Gamma/Dr. W/TheBrie

switch onto him, ensuring his lynch.

I think

Dr.W+PB's

vote on

Moment+TheBrie

were less likely to be scum, they weren't very reasoned and didn't have a narrative following a strong argument of

why

TheBrie+Moment

contained scum unlike what I thought of

DT+Gamma's

vote. 4617 - 4917

TheBrie

could very well have voted out of survivalism - but I don't quite know if that's scum-indicative or town-indicative yet, as there could've been motivation for either alignment imo.

Gamma

voteparked on

TheBrie

ever since the beginning of Second Dance, and they've only presented about a maximum of 2 lines explaining their scumread there. 4404 - 4504 - 5036

There's posts I've noted that I want to bring up later - and that I'm talking to

Krazy

about in our PT - that I want to back-up my thinking here.

But right now, I can't see a

DT

-scumteam where

Gamma

isn't a partner of.

I don't know the 3rd scum, but I'm becoming less confident in lynching

PB

off the bat or partially-apathy lynching

Moment+TheBrie

, because that almost feels like the point of lynching them right now tbh...

Gamma

-scum having

Urist

-IC is a good call for scum on a few reasons:

1)

Urists'

reads could be wrong on some currently living pairs, and him being IC vindicates his pushes.

2)

Gamma

was suspected late Pre-Dance, and IC'ing his partner would thwart off suspicion on him for awhile.

I haven't brought up my full case on

Gamma

- as I'm still not 100% sold on them being scum - but I feel like in retrospect, they're more likely scum to me versus

PB

or

Moment/TheBrie

right now.

My fear is that - by lynching

Gamma

- we lose IC. I don't know if acting on this scumread with 5 pairs left still is wise?

I'm going to study. I'll be on in a few hours - and expand on my

Gamma

case if nothing has swayed me. I want people to ISO

Gamma

and come up with their thoughts.

[Taly]

2) Gamma was suspected late Pre-Dance, and IC'ing

her

partner would thwart off suspicion on

her

for awhile.

correcting pronouns

<3

[Nancy Drew 39]

That's the point Nancy: if I'm wrong, an endgame pairing will have better chances to get the remaining deepwolf than with the remaining pairings as distractions and noise. I know I'm town and people has doubts on me: I'm making the endgame pairing lose time. Better leave as early as possible so they can focus

I’m really hoping that you’re right that both scum is in the others, because I’m currently townreading Taly/Dann/Krazy.

[Pink Ball]

@Taly, Mr. Worm and I are not going to endgame so don't worry too much about us. I'll leave as soon as we get everyone's opinion on endgame's pairs. Or even before that if it's taking too long to gather info. Focus on what would you do if the game is still going if there's you, Krazy, Dann and Nancy alive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

? I think I just said that I think it's Moment and Gamma, did I forget to submit that?

Oh sorry, I didn’t see that. I’m not convinced of moment scum, considering both RC and And were locktown on her. I was thinking Gamma could be scum but DT didn’t fall on his sword for her.

You also thought DT was town, when he was blatantly open wolfing, so I’m not thinking you’re reads are the best this game, sorry.

I was scumreading him before I ISOed him, that was my fault. Don't judge me for getting paranoid when the game feels easy, everyone has done it here

I just thought at some point, he was blatantly open wolfing. That’s where my paranoia is coming from. He was clearly trying to get himself lynched, when he could have survived a little longer.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Taly, Mr. Worm and I are not going to endgame so don't worry too much about us. I'll leave as soon as we get everyone's opinion on endgame's pairs. Or even before that if it's taking too long to gather info. Focus on what would you do if the game is still going if there's you, Krazy, Dann and Nancy alive.

But we need flips to figure that out, no?

[Pink Ball]

Yeah you're right, it will be easier after six flips.

[Dannflor]

Final two pairs? Me/Nancy, Krazy/Taly

UNVOTE: pinkball

I don't know if the order we lynch the others matters too much. I'm now thinking that maybe TheBrie/Moment should go first.

scum!pinkball doesn't introduce this idea of endgame pairs and then not include himself. I'm also inclined to believe all the people who've suggested end game pairs right now are town

[Dannflor]

Although, I don't like the way Gamma voted DT conditionally as a way to set up TheBrie/Moment as her next lynch if DT flipped red.

You know what I'm gonna change course here. I've been thinking lynching the scummiest pair imo was the best move but here's the thing: DT has been playing like I'd expect a partner of one of those 2 to play. So instead I'll vote DT with the statement that upon a scumflip Public Enemies #1 & 2 imo will be TB and Moment.
VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Like, I don't know if it even makes sense to say this. If DT flipped town, would Gamma suddenly not be pushing this pair anymore?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Final two pairs? Me/Nancy, Krazy/Taly

UNVOTE: pinkball

I don't know if the order we lynch the others matters too much. I'm now thinking that maybe TheBrie/Moment should go first.

scum!pinkball doesn't introduce this idea of endgame pairs and then not include himself. I'm also inclined to believe all the people who've suggested end game pairs right now are town

DT basically fucked up my reads, so I’m not sure what to think now. :/

So, I think PB’s idea makes sense, because it’s a way to cut throught scum WIFOM.

[Taly]

Although, I don't like the way Gamma voted DT conditionally as a way to set up TheBrie/Moment as her next lynch if DT flipped red.

You know what I'm gonna change course here. I've been thinking lynching the scummiest pair imo was the best move but here's the thing: DT has been playing like I'd expect a partner of one of those 2 to play.

So instead I'll vote DT with the statement that upon a scumflip Public Enemies #1 & 2 imo will be TB and Moment.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Like, I don't know if it even makes sense to say this. If DT flipped town, would Gamma suddenly not be pushing this pair anymore?

This was also one of my biggest points I brought up about

Gamma

scum to my PT with

Krazy

.

Gamma

didn't vote

DT

because she thought he was scum.

Gamma

voted

DT

because she could push the narrative that incriminated

TheBrie

, via

DT

being a potential partner.

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

It looked like a compromise-vote that validated her reads - since

DT

scumread

TheBrie

as well - which,

"surprise, surprise"

- is very similar to the reasoning that

Gamma

gave about

TheBrie

being scum of which had been all of 2 lines. 4417

Gamma's

post - 4755

DT's

post.

Moment

has ignored people's questions and

TheBrie's

acceptance of his invitation being

"shady"

was never really touched up on.

It just feels like an excuse to eliminate an easily lynchbaity pair.

I'm not saying

TheBrie+Moment

are locktown or even town/town, but I see almost 0 town-motivation behind

Gamma's

posts upon a

DT

scumflip, and I can link multiple posts right now of

Gamma

noting

Pink Ball+DW

as making 'noteworthy' posts

(4996 - 4999 and 5000 - and 5037)

, but sticks to

TheBrie+Moment

regardless of the large amounts of suspicion casted on

Pink Ball+DW

since AT LEAST

DT's

flip.

It just reads as

Gamma

lining up lynches off 0 basis of reading into the game or having a deep intent to solve it, and

Urist

is an ideal player to IC because he hasn't contradicted the wishes of scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

So the only flaw you can see here is that, if both scum reach the endgame, town loses, but they have to place themselves in the endgame pair to do that. The only way this could happen if both scum members are deepwolves. If that's the case, I think the game's over either way, but I'm convinced that there will be at least one red flip in

PB

/Worm/Gamma/TheBrie/Moment, if not two

huh????

[Taly]

I don't want to be in a situation of having ONLY 2 pairs left alive if that can be avoided.

We have 2 scum left to my understanding, and 5 pairs.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If

PB+Dr.W

townread each other, then I'm NOT OK with having either of them lynched until my strongest scumread is either validated or proven wrong via flip -

Gamma

.



My only grievance is that this eliminates

Urist

as an IC And I don't know if that's wise. So this vote is somewhat tentative, but I want people to indulge in my case or even counteract it if they disagree

p-edit

- outside of just

Gamma

- who ironically appears as I've cased him....

[Gamma Emerald]

Although, I don't like the way Gamma voted DT conditionally as a way to set up TheBrie/Moment as her next lynch if DT flipped red.

You know what I'm gonna change course here. I've been thinking lynching the scummiest pair imo was the best move but here's the thing: DT has been playing like I'd expect a partner of one of those 2 to play.

So instead I'll vote DT with the statement that upon a scumflip Public Enemies #1 & 2 imo will be TB and Moment.

VOTE: DoubtingThomas

Like, I don't know if it even makes sense to say this. If DT flipped town, would Gamma suddenly not be pushing this pair anymore?

This was also one of my biggest points I brought up about

Gamma

scum to my PT with

Krazy

.

Gamma

didn't vote

DT

because she thought he was scum.

Gamma

voted

DT

because she could push the narrative that incriminated

TheBrie

, via

DT

being a potential partner.

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

It looked like a compromise-vote that validated her reads - since

DT

scumread

TheBrie

as well - which,

"surprise, surprise"

- is very similar to the reasoning that

Gamma

gave about

TheBrie

being scum of which had been all of 2 lines. 4417

Gamma's

post - 4755

DT's

post.

Moment

has ignored people's questions and

TheBrie's

acceptance of his invitation being

"shady"

was never really touched up on.

It just feels like an excuse to eliminate an easily lynchbaity pair.

I'm not saying

TheBrie+Moment

are locktown or even town/town, but I see almost 0 town-motivation behind

Gamma's

posts upon a

DT

scumflip, and I can link multiple posts right now of

Gamma

noting

Pink Ball+DW

as making 'noteworthy' posts

(4996 - 4999 and 5000 - and 5037)

, but sticks to

TheBrie+Moment

regardless of the large amounts of suspicion casted on

Pink Ball+DW

since AT LEAST

DT's

flip.

It just reads as

Gamma

lining up lynches off 0 basis of reading into the game or having a deep intent to solve it, and

Urist

is an ideal player to IC because he hasn't contradicted the wishes of scum.

I guess this is generally understandable but there's some things to consider.

1. Dann's post reminded me we were on a timetable and there was 0 traction for that pair
   
2. I felt like the associative was pretty strong. I should be able to get into why now.

However this:

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

is NOT true. I had been scumreading DT quite clearly before.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh wow so I'm not allowed to correct you if you get something blatantly wrong?

[Taly]

Oh wow so I'm not allowed to correct you if you get something blatantly wrong?

Where did this come from? I said you can disagree with me - but I don't want a 1v1 when I'm trying to gamesolve.

I want other people to point out grievances or agree with me as well.

However this:

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

is NOT true. I had been scumreading DT quite clearly before.

Can you line the posts narrating your

DT

scumread? Because you've seemed to have focused only on 1 pair being a scumread for the past 3-4 days judging by the majority of your votes.

[Taly]

I guess this is generally understandable but there's some things to consider.
Dann's post reminded me we were on a timetable and there was 0 traction for that pair
I felt like the associative was pretty strong. I should be able to get into why now.

Also a bit confused here? Are you saying there's an associative with

Dann

and

DT

or am I completely misreading?

How am I wrong about my associative read on

You+DT

here?

[Gamma Emerald]

I guess this is generally understandable but there's some things to consider.
Dann's post reminded me we were on a timetable and there was 0 traction for that pair
I felt like the associative was pretty strong. I should be able to get into why now.

Also a bit confused here? Are you saying there's an associative with

Dann

and

DT

or am I completely misreading?

How am I wrong about my associative read on

You+DT

here?

Nothing between Dan and DT wtf, I was saying when I read Dann's post I thought "that's right we have a short deadline, and I should probably stop vanity voting because that's what I'm essentially doing"
And I think you're pretty wrong on it yeah. Next post should hopefully be my explanation.

[Gamma Emerald]

Oh wow so I'm not allowed to correct you if you get something blatantly wrong?

Where did this come from? I said you can disagree with me - but I don't want a 1v1 when I'm trying to gamesolve.

I want other people to point out grievances or agree with me as well.

Okay well it sounded like you were saying "gamma isn't allowed to counter my post"

However this:

Gamma

scarcely voiced a read on

DT

before this point and her vote was right after mine, so it was a predictable time to buss.

is NOT true. I had been scumreading DT quite clearly before.

Can you line the posts narrating your

DT

scumread? Because you've seemed to have focused only on 1 pair being a scumread for the past 3-4 days judging by the majority of your votes.

Yeah, I'll try to include that in my explanation of DT's associtives with the TB/moment pair too