Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Nancy Drew 39]

Taly can you translate what is going on in this game when you get a chance -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

am I right in understanding that this is simultaneously a town and scum game for you?

Quick Both-Game Reads

Scum/scum feels unlikely on anyone at the moment.

Pine
Townread early posts. Unhelpful argument against Elsa's B7 claim, but there was a quick vote on him in C14 and I want that vote explained.
Light Townread/Light Scumread - Unsure of Game

Persivul
I like his push for content, but I'm not in favor of his votes and reasons thus far. Not getting a town/town feel with overall posts.
Unconfident Townread/Unconfident Scumread - Unsure of Game

xyzzy
I want to townread based on a lack of defense from anyone and lack of cohesion with playerlist. Though several posts don't make sense from a town POV.
Light Townread/Scumread - Unsure of Game

Elsa
Claimed Doc in B7. Quick L-1'd in C14 suggests he's town, though based on his overall posting, I'm not ruling out Doc/Scum.
B7 IC/C14 Unconfident Townread

Maki Harukawa
I doubt scum/scum, and I can see town somewhere... But I'm unconfident in that, and I feel my case on her regarding C14 is stronger.
B7 ???/C14 Scumread

Irrelephant
I found Irrelephant's entire ISO to be pushing for discussion in some manner, even to his gut double-vote which L-1'd Elsa in B7. There must be town/town in this game and this is my strongest read on that. He was L-1'd quickly in B7, and his C14 vote feels sound.
B7 Townread/C14 Townread

Irrelephant/Elsa register as town/town to some degree.

So I'm not voting to lynch either of them as of my current reads.

And yeah, I'm actively saying "no" to any wagon on them.

Is this the really best example you can come up with?

I would have powerlynched Taly for this post alone.

[Krazy]

I was just looking through her games played for a game with a scum PT, saw that game had one, and then got *really confused* when I tried to actually read it LOL

[Krazy]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

[Nancy Drew 39]

{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Vedith, Ankamius, Firebringer, SS, TheBrie, Taly} town.

That leaves {PvtUrist, Krazy, RC, Allomancer, DT, Nancy, Gamma, Pink Ball}.

That's right, I should go reread Moment in Witches Ball again. My main concern with Moment so far this game is him not being demonstrably wrong about anything yet. Maybe I'm just jealous? I just don't get how he got SS town, Vedith town within 30 posts of his iso. Like, strong game for him I guess if he's green.

Moment left pre-dance in that didn’t he?

Maybe Forgotten Hourglass, is a better example of town!moment, because she was one of the first ones to nail scum!Maria and he never let up on his Maria scumread but town was a clusterfuck in that game. I was actually grateful to scum for putting me out of my misery early.

[Krazy]

Yeah he did. Also I'm sticking with "he" because he's a gentlemen in the flavor of the game and no gender is listed. Is "she" generally correct for Moment?

This is probably the strongest Taly scumgame right?
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

It reads waaaay different than this game 0.o

[Nancy Drew 39]

Basically I've been asking myself this whole game if the Moment who wrote 2603 in this game is the same Moment that thought Brian Skies, Gamma Emerald, and Sakura were scum in Witches Ball.

Can you link/quote 2603 for me?

I have to say, that if you’re relying on one of her arguably weaker towngames to accurately assess her reads in this one, you’re doing her a disservice. Also, she left pre-dance, so how can you discredit those reads, when she didn’t even have a few flips to make her reads on like she does here?

ISO her in FH, you will get a very different result.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was just looking through her games played for a game with a scum PT, saw that game had one, and then got *really confused* when I tried to actually read it LOL

That post I quoted was a blatant scumtell. That kind of post almost never comes from town. Was this recent?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I was just looking through her games played for a game with a scum PT, saw that game had one, and then got *really confused* when I tried to actually read it LOL

That post I quoted was a blatant scumtell. That kind of post almost never comes from town. Was this recent?

And your pronouns are confusing tf out of me here. Taly is a he and moment is a she.

[Krazy]

2603:

{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Vedith, Ankamius, Firebringer, SS, TheBrie, Taly} town.

That leaves {PvtUrist, Krazy, RC, Allomancer, DT, Nancy, Gamma, Pink Ball}.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

It’s definitely better than the one you referenced, by a longshot. I was right about him in SC 2, wasn’t I, so where is this even coming from?

[Krazy]

And your pronouns are confusing tf out of me here. Taly is a he and moment is a she.

Yeah I'm mostly trying to stick to the pronoun as role-in-this-game but I think I've been inconsistent with some slots.

I only asked about Moment because I don't even really know.

[Nancy Drew 39]

2603:

{Dannflor, Dr Worm, Vedith, Ankamius, Firebringer, SS, TheBrie, Taly} town.

That leaves {PvtUrist, Krazy, RC, Allomancer, DT, Nancy, Gamma, Pink Ball}.

How is this one of moment’s best posts in the game?

[TheBrie]

Brie, if we flip Gamma and she flips green, what is the path from there in your view? Would Moment at that point be your top FoS?

Yes. Partly because I've not got the strongest townread there, and I don't want to think about the double-deep wolf theory.
But Gamma has been pushing there, and I'd like to think that if Gamma did turn out to be town, she's gotten something right.

I don't think Moment has been reading much, so I don't know his opinions will be all that helpful.

I disagree. I think he has a really good grasp of the gamestate, despite that. Like I’ve already said, if time weren’t an issue, I’d insist on it.

How about you Brie? Who do you think is Gamma’s likely partner? Why don’t you have an opinion on that?

It is surprisingly good grasp. But whatever you get will be naturally limited. He'd not given me any read on Gamma and what he said didn't even have a lean.

My only theory is that it could be someone trying to slow the Gamma lynch down, but even that only makes sense as a general game slowing tactic, and it doesn't feel like it's coming from there.
I'm not fully convinced by my own argument that Moment and Gamma can't be scum together. That was mostly based on the idea that Gamma wouldn't push the remaining scum buddy when she's already under suspicion herself, but that's faulty. If she firmly town read Moment and I, got lynched and flipped scum, you'd want us gone next.
So currently I think Moment and I should leave soon after a Gamma flip. If we're both town it saves you time you could be sorting each other. And I've said as much to Moment.

[Krazy]

It’s definitely better than the one you referenced, by a longshot. I was right about him in SC 2, wasn’t I, so where is this even coming from?

If Gamma is getting lynched before M-TB, then I want to be damn sure I'm not the game-losing pocket LOL

Like, if Pvt is going today, I'd like to feel pretty damn sure that his solve isn't correct. So far I'm pretty sure he's wrong about Taly, but to be honest this is the first time I've really started to dig into {her} meta on my own. You seem pretty convinced so there shouldn't be too much issue in shoring up my read there.

It sounds like you're 90%+ on Dann town? Have you meta'd him at all or are you primarily going off tone/PT interactions?

[Krazy]

How is this one of moment’s best posts in the game?

5/5 on townreads and 1/1 on scum poes is good for anyone d1 tbh.

[Krazy]

(expired on 2019-02-20 18:00:08) -- Gamma where are you?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

Scum gentlemen are among {Krazy, RC, Allo, DT}.
Scum ladies among {GE, PB}.

Decided just now to leave Urist out becaues of 3283.

Moment could you go into your townreads a bit? I have a reasonably strong townread on you and I think town needs to be able to figure that out too

I believe I've justified most of them, not that anyone reads anything I post (as evidenced by PB).

PvtUrist I decided to sort as town for his insistence that he should be lynched soon. I believe this to be genuine, and something that comes from town.

Dr Worm I townread for a similar reason, which I pointed out here.

Ok I reread Worm's iso now that I'm like 60% sure of his main and I'm still not sure but I'm not sure I entirely want him in my bottom two, and if I'm redoing my bottom males entirely then I should be thinking about DT anyway.

If Worm doesn't want to survive intermission I am not strongly opposed to him suicide bombing a scum lady although Alisae will probably say I'm scum for mentioning it--but I'm just being real here, Dance 2 will probably be hectic AF and my impression right now is that he doesn't want to replace out but can't keep up with the game while still giving informed reads.

@Worm is that what's going on with that last post?

NO

DR WORM knows it"s NOT BEST FOR TOWN if WORM is INNOCENT CHILI!! So WORM DIES before INTERMISSONS..

Ouch.

Sad that such a towny thought has to come from someone very likely to die.

It's an unbelievably town motivated thought.

Vedith and Ankamius I explained in 2082.

Firebringer I believe I sorted as town when reading through the early game. Probably in part for his frustration with Nancy, although I'm certain there were other reasons. I have it written down that his 310 was towny, don't remember what it was.

Dannflor is admittedly a weak townread, but I believe it came from 2552.

I scumread Taly when reading through the early game and honestly don't remember why I sorted him away as town, although I don't doubt myself at the moment.

TheBrie for reasons.

Nancy I just explained.

I believe that's all of them.

I'm kinda thinking I want to pair with Thomas. Everyone else is too towny.

I would rather you paired with Urist. There's no need to be fatalistic with your lynch.

@Kraey, These are a lot better moment posts than 2603.

I am becoming increasingly convinced that we should not lynch Brie today, if only because I think moment leaving before Gamma, fucks town.

[Taly]

Taly can you translate what is going on in this game when you get a chance -- https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

am I right in understanding that this is simultaneously a town and scum game for you?

lol

fuck dont remind me, i was playing far more to my scum-game D1 and then i lol-fucked town in D2 when i finally focused on my town-game

just throw the whole game link away lmao

that was a game i was shitty regardless of my alignment or the circumstance XD

[Taly]

yeah Open 724 was my Perfect Scum Victory game so I'd say I performed my best there

I deepwolf'd and traumatized

the worst

lol

[Taly]

idgaf about whether people call me or a he or she i'm a cis-male but

*shrug*

[Taly]

Like the 26? posts of Labyrinth are the main basis of your understanding of Scum Taly, right Nancy?

yeah, people like to refer to Labyrinth for me as scum

but i was a traitor who rep-ed out later

so i had no pt and i flaked. i dont think its 100% the best game to look at me for, but i was pretty mid-range performance there and was the last scum slot to be lynched i think?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Brie, if we flip Gamma and she flips green, what is the path from there in your view? Would Moment at that point be your top FoS?

Yes. Partly because I've not got the strongest townread there, and I don't want to think about the double-deep wolf theory.
But Gamma has been pushing there, and I'd like to think that if Gamma did turn out to be town, she's gotten something right.

I don't think Moment has been reading much, so I don't know his opinions will be all that helpful.

I disagree. I think he has a really good grasp of the gamestate, despite that. Like I’ve already said, if time weren’t an issue, I’d insist on it.

How about you Brie? Who do you think is Gamma’s likely partner? Why don’t you have an opinion on that?

It is surprisingly good grasp. But whatever you get will be naturally limited. He'd not given me any read on Gamma and what he said didn't even have a lean.

My only theory is that it could be someone trying to slow the Gamma lynch down, but even that only makes sense as a general game slowing tactic, and it doesn't feel like it's coming from there.
I'm not fully convinced by my own argument that Moment and Gamma can't be scum together. That was mostly based on the idea that Gamma wouldn't push the remaining scum buddy when she's already under suspicion herself, but that's faulty. If she firmly town read Moment and I, got lynched and flipped scum, you'd want us gone next.
So currently I think Moment and I should leave soon after a Gamma flip. If we're both town it saves you time you could be sorting each other. And I've said as much to Moment.

And moment, does she concur with this?

Are there reasons, other than mechanical/wagonomics/POE that you think moment might be scum here?

Because so far as Urist has said, no one has made a case for scum!moment, other than inactivity?

[Taly]

people give me too much credit for my scum game

im more of a force as town. i wish my scumgame was more like my town - and that i played like THIS as scum

but meh

*shrug*

people are weary of meta's that rely on deepwolfing to an extent.

[Taly]

in the same breath, i wish i got more acknowledgement for how well ive played as town before considering the circumstances

[Nancy Drew 39]

It’s definitely better than the one you referenced, by a longshot. I was right about him in SC 2, wasn’t I, so where is this even coming from?

If Gamma is getting lynched before M-TB, then I want to be damn sure I'm not the game-losing pocket LOL

Like, if Pvt is going today, I'd like to feel pretty damn sure that his solve isn't correct. So far I'm pretty sure he's wrong about Taly, but to be honest this is the first time I've really started to dig into {her} meta on my own. You seem pretty convinced so there shouldn't be too much issue in shoring up my read there.

It sounds like you're 90%+ on Dann town? Have you meta'd him at all or are you primarily going off tone/PT interactions?

Unfortunately, I have reasons that I can’t elaborate on, both for my Dann townread and my Brie paranoia. I will meta him, to see if that changes but I have really strong reasons to townread Dann here. Like, I’m more confident on Taly but yes that and play, mechanically - Urist IC, Allo being wrong on every scumread so far, RC read and I really can’t see the sincerity and conviction in his posts, as easily fakable. Do you have some scumgames of his, that contradict that? I don’t want to be wrong here but so far, I don’t think I’m seeing Dann!scum here.

In our PT, Dann does a lot of second guessing of himself, which seems more likely to come from town. Wouldn’t you agree?