Merchant's Daughter [Endgame]

[Krazy]

Oh the 9 to lynch cutoff was something I actually wasn't aware of

Then yes, coins outright do not matter.

No, it meant that:
If fire left, if vedith left, if rc left, if you left, or the first lynch was a mislynch, then the 8 coin male could instantly hammer because the threshold would have changed.


I would still flip the question though.

In what circumstance do the coins not just make the setup less fun? How is spending 8 days with no votes, and then going into a gamephase where you either don't vote or risk an instant hammer, fun?

It's a mountainous where VCA is unreadable at that point...

[Firebringer]

KRAZY DISCORD ME

[Krazy]

Gotta do work first bae

[Ankamius]

KRAZY DISCARD ME

[Firebringer]

ank is jelly.

[Ankamius]

You're peanut butter

[Firebringer]

And I am delicious.

[Gamma Emerald]

I'm toast.

[Ankamius]

The insinuations of that

[Pink Ball]

You're peanut butter

I'm PB so I'm actually peanut butter. I'm looking for someone with a J in their name to make the PB & J hydra

[Nancy Drew 39]

@FakeGod, sorry if I got overly tilted. I was already upset that you had this discussion itt, rather than PM, which is the standard practice. We talk via PL, reach a conclusion, then you post THAT in the main thread, so I already felt extremely violated by that and when you then add insult to injury by lauding another player for referencing off site information and use it to further shame me, I have to put my foot down. You should have also told Fire not to talk about your private PM correspondence with you in the dead thread, instead you chose to not only look the other way but escalate it. I would have preferred to tell you this via PM but unlike DT, who I believed to have been well-intentioned, you decided to push the envelope with something that really shouldn’t be any of your business to comment on. I mean, where does it end? What if someone googled me and posted private personal info about me? Yes, I realize that is a major reach but your lack of concern about what is and what isn’t acceptable to be lecturing someone in a public thread is extremely worrisome to me. There is a very good reason for the accepted practice to conduct these matters,

privately

. So, what I want to know, is where does it end for you? At what point do you decide that me or anyone else has an absolute right to privacy concerning all thing non-MS related?

[FakeGod]

I apologize, Nancy.

I think it's best if we don't cross paths again in the future.

You have my sincerest wishes.

[Gamma Emerald]

The insinuations of that

I was aiming for a joke about how people say "I'm toast" when they are out if options or w/e but hey take it how you will

[Allomancer]

Town Cases ~ Part 1: Why is Nancy

Town

?

I've been up and down Nancy's ISO. I've read and reread our PT together at least a few times now. There is not a universe where you could convince me Nancy is scum.

To begin with, there have been a couple times when Nancy has gotten emotional during conflicts with another player that demonstrate her alignment.

EXHIBIT A: FIREBRANGER

If you don't remember, Nancy had a conflict early in the game that resulted in her nearly replacing out. Largely, it was a conflict that sparked between her and Firebringer.

It started in post #294.

allomancer is scum this game btw

Why?

nancy don't make me suspect u this early

Why? Because I want to know why you think Allo is scum?

It continues and reaches a climax in posts #561 and #564. Phrases of interest bolded for clarity:

I don’t know if I even want to get picked anymore. I feel like I’m being scumreading without any basis and every single attempt I’ve made to ge clarity on this, seems to get viewed as some kind of scumclaim. I’m seriously contemplating replacing out at this point and they can toture my replacement instead. :/

I think you should stay and we should probably PT together like a pair of masons! \o/

It’s better for town, that I just bow out now anyway and if no one picks me

, then I won’t need to be replaced. I honestly don’t know what else to do at this point. I just know, I’m not having fun anymore

@mod please replace me.

This is like MBoS all over agian and I’m not fucking putting myself through that. Sorry.

First of all, to state that it might be better for town if no one picks them is an

incredibly dangerous

claim for scum to make, because there's the very real chance town will take them up on the offer—especially so at a time when the slot is so widely pressured/scum read. The fact of the matter is, it's not a desperate grab for town cred. If you consider that emotion to be faked, you also have to consider that the replacement wasn't genuine, and to replace out of a game for town cred is not something I believe Nancy would ever do.

EXHIBIT B: DOUBTINGTOXIC

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

Well if it's a mathematical certainty that scum is in there, it means that it didn't take any scumhunting skill to generate... I could put everyone in the scum tier and say "omg I scumread all the scum!" but it wouldn't mean anything.

Re: Thomas's wall, I don't know yet. I'm trying to get him to talk about that stuff a little more in the PT.

Having played with DT in a MU Lovers’ game, I can tell you that activity is NAI for him but town!him would express strong opinions in your PT. He did in ours - they were dead wrong but he definitely didn’t lack conviction.

did you want to be in my Lover PT that badly? why is this the only thing you talk about

Lolwut?

You were town in that game and it was blatantly obvious, soley based on what you posted in our DC.

wtf? why are you lying you literally cussed me out in discord lover PT for thinking you could be scum

you said "you are just scum at this point for not obv town reading me" then you got banned for angleshooting (lol)

don't pretend you correctly town read me. you literally subbed out cuz u thought i was a scum for not reading you town

which was kinda insane

I obtown read you and yes, thanks for reminding me of something I’d really rather forget. I was trying to do whatever I could think of to get you to see that I was town, so we wouldn’t lose the game with our mislynch.
I knew I had majorly fucked up by wrongly pushing El pair mislynch and you promised to lynch us if they flipped town, so yes I really was that desperate for you not to lose us the game because you totally sucked at reading me. Happy now.?

Yeah, and I paid the price for it, as you’ve already said.

Gamma, interesting. What connection do you see between Moment and I and DT then?

Also it's time to get this moving along.
VOTE: Doubting Thomas

L-1

DT was consistently pushing both me and TB but voted me for most of that period and was up my ass. That tells me the TB push was likely distancing.
Also VOTE: TheBrie again

I’m just really glad he’s out of the game.

He was being toxic and him throwing that game in my face like that, was really mean.

Spoiler:

My argument was that you should have had reads three days ago and that town is on the clock. I think I made exactly one post about it. Stop acting like I was talking up a storm about your post activity, that was simply me refuting the notion that there wasn't enough to work with irt your slot to get a read.

i town read SS and not scum read SS. that is not hard to understand. I think there are definite scum in Gamma or Brie. Maybe in PB, Nancy, etc if I look more into it.

As far as I know this is your reads right now. We have 5 days to solve the game. Who gets lynched today DT? Why are you continuing to bitch about me not spoonfeeding you interactions when you are presenting 0 indications of a solving mindset? Do you want Brie lynched today? Do you want Gamma to go first? Why in that order?

I have read your games and you are not this directionless as town. I feel like you just want to throw dirt at whoever is online and posting rather than working toward a gamesolve.

I thought I made my reads on other players to a certain degree so I am confused as to why you are trying to shade me this hard.

I think Gamma is obv scum but didn't realize she is partners with IC. Thinking maybe we can let them live technically just because we know for sure her partner is town and you made a fair point about gamma 'spewing'

I think Worm/PB are pretty null.

I think Brie's "reads" have been very subpar. I explained this before but you haven't read my posts properly so I will say it again

These are all of her "reads" that she made today:

Leaning towards scum on Moment, but he's not giving me anything to read. Conflicted on Pink Ball.

I went and did meta on Gamma. Her game is quite similar as town and scum, as town she's got more questions that force others to get involved and are really challenging, as a little less "Explain this" and sort of mechanical stuff, or comments on how people are playing. But it's close, and I can't tell which side this falls on. Maybe a tiny bit towards the scum side, but not enough to say anything solid. It's not outside her town range.

There's a few things that give me a scummy feel, but overall... I've not gotten her sorted out. i just know I'm not putting her solidly in as town.

In summary, she basically just says, "I lean scum. but he doesn't have any content to base my read on him. Idk Pink ball. I did meta on Gamma. I can't tell if she's town or scum. maybe a little scum. Don't have anything solid.

This is definition of hedging and she is refusing to take a stance. I think that is an overtly scum trait.

I also don't buy her explanation of insta accepting moment's invitation, as S_S pointed out

Mostly because I was afraid life would hardly let me on before the deadline. i had a couple days of full on work (waking up at three am), and I didn't know then how tired I would be the rest of the time. Bad reason.
Also, I wasn't really townreading SS then, and didn't really want her with Moment.

i don't really see scum!Moment asking scum!SS when he had a reasonable chance of town!me accepting. So currently townreading SS. Not townreading Moment, but I want to see him post again before making a final judgement.

I think this is >rand scum thing to do.

I also think Nancy constantly talking about my lover PT is >rand scum. I cannot understand why she thinks that would be NAI and scum read me for it. sounds scummy.

I think Worm's tone is townie, but I am confused as to why he completely ignored you and my interaction to talk about me at all in the last 10 pages that I read

I think Gamma has done very little solving and noone really town reads her. I think the way she got mad and attacked me out of nowehre is extremely scummy because she was blatantly lying about my progression on her. I think she can go, but I can accept why people wouldn't want to lynch her because she is lovers with an IC.

In that sense, I think Brie also has very high scum equity especially with her performance today. I haven't read Moment at all. hopefully he comes back soon. maybe ill iso him eventually.

I think nancy has good scum equity as well for oddly attacking me for not talking in lovers PT when i simply havent been on. I also think it was weird for her to give a reason for twon reading dann by using a post itt despite having lovers PT she so loves to talk about with him. i think dann is kinda townie for his posts tho and i initially town read nancy, so i personally prefer brie's lynch who i scum read harder and have no opinion on the lover for

i made all of this pretty clear in my recent posts so don't give me the "i dont see any reads from you" shit. read my shit.

i think you are just conf biasing and not reading my posts to tunnel me. i think you cussing me out is unnecessary and just provoking me really hard. believe me i can get real toxic real fast.

i don't want to go down that path so if you unnecessarily cuss me out again i will just ignore your presence and play the game around so i can at least leave a good legacy if you are just gonna deathtunnel me. i do think you are somewhat townie (despite S_S believing otherwise) and I think Taly is very townie so I don't want to get involved in a useless mess with you.

good luck with the rest of the game if you have anything intelligent to say that you want to approach me in a mature way to talk about, i'd be glad to talk. otherwise, i think you are just stuck in a tunnel and will play the game around you

So, in this post DT does say both Brie and Gamma are scum. The difference is he actually cases Brie here and I bolded a part towards the top where he says Gamma can actually be left alive. So I'd actually say he was pushing Brie more than you, Gamma.

Also good to note, right below the bolded portion, he has PB/Dr Worm as null. That, imo combined with his interactions with PB later make more sense as soft distancing.

I have experience with scum!DT and he is really clever. He fooled me in MU Suk game, so it’s extremely likey that he was deliberately trying to get himself lynched to save at least one of his buddies.

I think his shitting on me for pushing him posting in his PT, was just WIFOM to make everyone think he was afraid of it but I think it’s well within his scumrange to have fooled SS, if he had really wanted to. He was open wolfing here and he obviously knew it.

Nancy and DT have lowkey clashed all game, but this was the peak of it, occurring from posts #4825 to #5060. If you believe Nancy is scum, then you must also believe all the Nancy/DT interactions this game are scum theatre. Again, I read Nancy as completely genuine here. I think if Nancy and DT really had been scum buddies here, Nancy would have replaced out a long long time ago. I don't think that's a stretch to assert.

There are other things that point towards Nancy being town too. Namely, the choice of IC. Selecting PvtUrist as the IC directs more suspicion towards me. If we are entertaining the fact that Nancy could be the deepwolf, her game plan requires that she survive till endgame. ICing Pvt puts the odds against her by splashing suspicion on me. If I'm the most suspicious person going into endgame, it's not likely Nancy will win it. Scum in this setup, particularly a deep wolf in this situation, has to play to survive until endgame. This means they have to avoid the deaths of both themselves and their partner.

Another point in Nancy's favor is that she initially pushed to have Krazy as her lover. This is a good because Krazy at no point was "universally town read," with RC being a far better candidate. I think if Nancy was scum, she would have pushed harder to be in a pair with RC.

In the end, if Nancy is scum here, she deserves to win a fucking Oscar.

this whole post didn't age well.
Nancy gets an Oscar now?

[Ankamius]

Not even a day old and it already hasn't aged well

What a world we live in

[Dannflor]

It was stupid of me to base my town case off of an attempted replace-out. I don't really blame Nancy, it was my fault for thinking it was AI

[Dannflor]

At least I'll hopefully have a more critical eye for AtE in general going forward

[DoubtingThomas]

If you believe Nancy is scum, then you must also believe all the Nancy/DT interactions this game are scum theatre.

[Dannflor]

lmao someone delete that post already

[Krazy]

Unfortunately one frustration of this setup is that read accuracy based on pt interactions cannot be evaluated... really the pts in that regard almost exclusively help scum in pocketing attempts. If you say Nancy is town based on PT interactions, then it is hard to evaluate that objectively. I notice that the town pts tended to have a lot more shitposting, or just nothing, whereas all the scum were highly motivated to appear solvey. I guess the PTs are exclusively there to accelerate and amplify scum pocketing attempts. I think Witches Ball went more smoothly because there was no need to continue solving after the PTs were created.

[Krazy]

I think this game should serve as a springboard for a shift in site meta to regard toxic 1v1s as scum theater and to lynch both slots.

[FakeGod]

I think this game should serve as a springboard for a shift in site meta to regard toxic 1v1s as scum theater and to lynch both slots.

Only You Can Prevent Forum Fires

[Krazy]

This is also what happens when endgame pairings in the previous run are generated based on personality conflicts.

Create a town strategy of endgaming based on hostility, and you create a strong incentive to create a hostile gamestate as a means of advancing the scum wincon.

[Krazy]

In witches ball, I mean, not the false started run of this setup

Ok maybe I'm still bitter about being denied a pairing with creature

[FakeGod]

In witches ball, I mean, not the false started run of this setup

Ok maybe I'm still bitter about being denied a pairing with creature

I agree Creature is a superior dance partner to House in a secret alt.

But just about anything is a superior dance partner to House in a secret alt.