Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[Yachting n Socializing]

Shoshin giving me better village feels

The last two pages make you believe Shoshin is more likely to be town?

[Yachting n Socializing]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

[Shoshin]

I actually think Vedith is a strong pick for scum right now

Now you want to push my scumread? Took a while.

[Yachting n Socializing]

Is this out of Shoshin's scumrange?

Stop asking generic ass questions

[Creature]

Well this game is finally enjoyable!

You're welcome.

[Creature]

Are you still scumreading me, Creature? You gonna hold onto that?

Probably not anymore, but I dunno about your reads.

[Creature]

I actually think Vedith is a strong pick for scum right now

I don't know how to really read him, so your call.

[YellowSnow]

Is this out of Shoshin's scumrange?

Stop asking generic ass questions

How is this generic?

[Yachting n Socializing]

And the idea that I'm underwhelming in this game is bullshit. I haven't been underhwelming.

As somebody who hasn't played with you before, you seem underwhelming to me as well ftr.

I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear

Roomy actually had multiple votes on him when he replaced out, not just mine. I also was anything but absent. At least from scum's perspective.

These don't jive

And I do actually agree that the reason for repping out is bullshit, but I tried calling that out, why did you nor RC (who apparently agreed) nor anybody agree with me? I was told I was wrong. And other than that DDL's play is fine, his reads are close to mine which is town indicative ime, and Roomy was null/very slight town for me too outside of the rep out.

[Yachting n Socializing]

Is this out of Shoshin's scumrange?

Stop asking generic ass questions

How is this generic?

What is COA and Soshin's scum meta?

Obviously... do you think his meta points to town or scum.

etc

ask less questions, post more thoughts. Asking shit is fine if you're also solving, but most of your iso is just 5 word question and answers.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

I use the term "mechanical" when describing analysis that follows a rigid rule-based approach to scumhunting. Example of rule-based scumhunting: "if a player doesn't answer a question, it's like to be scum; X didn't answer a question; therefore, X is scum." Your approach obviously isn't this rigid but it follows this basic approach. Personally, I don't think it's an effective approach but to each their own.

[YellowSnow]

How does 4 posts count as "most of my iso?"

I think I am gamesolving more than most of the players here.

[Shoshin]

And the idea that I'm underwhelming in this game is bullshit. I haven't been underhwelming.

As somebody who hasn't played with you before, you seem underwhelming to me as well ftr.

I made my top scumread who I was voting replace out in fear

Roomy actually had multiple votes on him when he replaced out, not just mine. I also was anything but absent. At least from scum's perspective.

These don't jive

And I do actually agree that the reason for repping out is bullshit, but I tried calling that out, why did you nor RC (who apparently agreed) nor anybody agree with me? I was told I was wrong. And other than that DDL's play is fine, his reads are close to mine which is town indicative ime, and Roomy was null/very slight town for me too outside of the rep out.

I led the wagon on roomy so I took credit for its impact on him replacing out. As for my play feeling underwhelming, your feeling is subjective and based on a very mechanical way of reading my behaviors. I think what I'm doing has had a lot more impact that most players realize.

I don't think it's necessary to post every single thought, agreement, or disagreement that I have. In this case, I made a judgment call that agreeing wtih you or RC wouldn't contribute anything of value to the game, since I don't think it's a strong basis for scumreading Roomy's slot.

[Yachting n Socializing]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

I use the term "mechanical" when describing analysis that follows a rigid rule-based approach to scumhunting. Example of rule-based scumhunting: "if a player doesn't answer a question, it's like to be scum; X didn't answer a question; therefore, X is scum." Your approach obviously isn't this rigid but it follows this basic approach. Personally, I don't think it's an effective approach but to each their own.

I did that earlier because my goal in RVS is to create activity, and there is very little early game to go off of. Yes, they aren't greatly consistent, but its about statistics; if scum is more likely to not vote in RVS, even if its only 1% more likely, then that is a better place to vote. Do you get what I mean? I don't think my play past the first 10-20 pages has been like that at all, do you disagree? And I do believe scum are more likely to dodge questions.

[Yachting n Socializing]

I led the wagon on roomy so I took credit for its impact on him replacing out. As for my play feeling underwhelming, your feeling is subjective and based on a very mechanical way of reading my behaviors. I think what I'm doing has had a lot more impact that most players realize.

I don't think it's necessary to post every single thought, agreement, or disagreement that I have. In this case, I made a judgment call that agreeing wtih you or RC wouldn't contribute anything of value to the game, since I don't think it's a strong basis for scumreading Roomy's slot.

But people said I was wrong for calling the replace out scummy, and pushing me for that. Is it not necessary to defend a viewpoint you agree with? I get not voicing every microagreement, but when its an active argument I feel its important to get involved.

Do you agree Creature's town? You didn't answer that one I don't think.

[Shoshin]

@Shoshin, answer my question, I'm trying to determine if its a fake read or not and you are making it look like it is.

What's your question?

What do you mean by you scumread me because my play sounds mechanical? I don't get it, and quoted the question twice.

I use the term "mechanical" when describing analysis that follows a rigid rule-based approach to scumhunting. Example of rule-based scumhunting: "if a player doesn't answer a question, it's like to be scum; X didn't answer a question; therefore, X is scum." Your approach obviously isn't this rigid but it follows this basic approach. Personally, I don't think it's an effective approach but to each their own.

I did that earlier because my goal in RVS is to create activity, and there is very little early game to go off of. Yes, they aren't greatly consistent, but its about statistics; if scum is more likely to not vote in RVS, even if its only 1% more likely, then that is a better place to vote. Do you get what I mean? I don't think my play past the first 10-20 pages has been like that at all, do you disagree? And I do believe scum are more likely to dodge questions.

You seem to hold a set of rigid beliefs about what scum are likely to do, and then you apply those beliefs as if they were rules. That's mechanical play, or at least what I call mechanical play. And to be clear, my example of the question-asking was actually just one example among many. For examle, you did it to Morality in a different way (if a player lies it's scum; Morality lied; therefore Morality is scum) while admitting that Morality tends to lie as town. Like, that's how you play. Maybe you lack the self-awareness to realize this about your play, but it's definititely what you do.

[YellowSnow]

Shoshin = You are scum because you really think I am scum.

[Shoshin]

I led the wagon on roomy so I took credit for its impact on him replacing out. As for my play feeling underwhelming, your feeling is subjective and based on a very mechanical way of reading my behaviors. I think what I'm doing has had a lot more impact that most players realize.

I don't think it's necessary to post every single thought, agreement, or disagreement that I have. In this case, I made a judgment call that agreeing wtih you or RC wouldn't contribute anything of value to the game, since I don't think it's a strong basis for scumreading Roomy's slot.

But people said I was wrong for calling the replace out scummy, and pushing me for that. Is it not necessary to defend a viewpoint you agree with? I get not voicing every microagreement, but when its an active argument I feel its important to get involved.

Do you agree Creature's town? You didn't answer that one I don't think.

I disagree that it's important to get involved with every active argument.

I'd say Creature's null for the moment. He's nowhere close to as town as my other townreads.

[Yachting n Socializing]

You seem to hold a set of rigid beliefs about what scum are likely to do, and then you apply those beliefs as if they were rules. That's mechanical play, or at least what I call mechanical play. And to be clear, my example of the question-asking was actually just one example among many. For examle, you did it to Morality in a different way (if a player lies it's scum; Morality lied; therefore Morality is scum) while admitting that Morality tends to lie as town. Like, that's how you play. Maybe you lack the self-awareness to realize this about your play, but it's definititely what you do.

Okay, but if I were to agree with you (which I don't, but this discussion is not something to clog the thread with), and thats how I am as a player, then how does that make it scummy? "Like, that's how

play."

[Shoshin]

You seem to hold a set of rigid beliefs about what scum are likely to do, and then you apply those beliefs as if they were rules. That's mechanical play, or at least what I call mechanical play. And to be clear, my example of the question-asking was actually just one example among many. For examle, you did it to Morality in a different way (if a player lies it's scum; Morality lied; therefore Morality is scum) while admitting that Morality tends to lie as town. Like, that's how you play. Maybe you lack the self-awareness to realize this about your play, but it's definititely what you do.

Okay, but if I were to agree with you (which I don't, but this discussion is not something to clog the thread with), and thats how I am as a player, then how does that make it scummy? "Like, that's how

play."

I don't know your alignment. I think mechanical analysis tends to come from scum because it's such an easy way to push mislynches on players while ignoring relevant evidence. I also think the vast majority of townies aren't mechanical thinkers, so when you see someone who is, I look closely at what those players are doing. You seemed to be ignoring relevant evidence so I dunno, felt scummy.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin = You are scum because you really think I am scum.

Why are you scumreading me?

[YellowSnow]

Because it seems like you are purposefully holding back. COA had meta on you and you are not playing like a high quality town player.

[Shoshin]

Because it seems like you are purposefully holding back. COA had meta on you and you are not playing like a high quality town player.

What do you mean, "purposefully holding back"? As for the "high quality town player" thing, what's your basis for saying my play isn't "high quality"? Do you KNOW my reads are wrong? Which reads do you disagree with?

[Yachting n Socializing]

I don't know your alignment. I think mechanical analysis tends to come from scum because it's such an easy way to push mislynches on players while ignoring relevant evidence. I also think the vast majority of townies aren't mechanical thinkers, so when you see someone who is, I look closely at what those players are doing. You seemed to be ignoring relevant evidence so I dunno, felt scummy.

Eh, your above post attributed it far more to playstyle than my alignment. I don't see what I'm ignoring? I dropped my Boon push when I saw it wasn't right, and I switched my Creature read when he proved me wrong.

[YellowSnow]

You seem very fency and non-committal.