Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[Vorkuta]

I disagree with some points.
-This is Day 1. I doubt decent scum players are going to hand over freebies. And seeing as potentially everyone here can look quite the town
-There are playstyles that have counter play, and there are playstyles that don't (active lurking, random/emotional gut reads, reaction-testing).
Part of the game is to balance scum reads with town liabilities- after all logic is logic regardless of who spouts it.

Now for your request.
-Do I get several days as a buffer for an investigative/kill/exmachina?
-Are you SURE that your ego-battle with him is not interfering with your "town" win-condition?
-Do you think RNG gave HIM of all people in this game the scum role?
-What if Morality makes exactly the same request of me? Hell what if everyone here points fingers and picks fights with people which results in 50 such pairings/ultimatums?

[RadiantCowbells]

-Do I get several days as a buffer for an investigative/kill/exmachina?
-Are you SURE that your ego-battle with him is not interfering with your "town" win-condition?
-Do you think RNG gave HIM of all people in this game the scum role?
-What if Morality makes exactly the same request of me? Hell what if everyone here points fingers and picks fights with people which results in 50 such pairings/ultimatums?

1) no.
2) yes.
3) he's no more or less likely to be scum than anyone else and based on the sheer amount of towny slots
4) not everyone in the game has high enough read consistency to ask for this. if he makes the exact same request of you then you should grant it.

[Shoshin]

Vorkuta, look at how much work Morality puts into explaining everything he's doing. Even his reaction tests come with a disclaimer: "Look, I'm testing reactions with this vote." This isn't how town plays. He's preemptively justifying everything he's doing so that townies don't or can't ask too many questions. It's typical scum play.

[RadiantCowbells]

Shoshin I think we should respect a legitimate claim of needing a day off for mental health reasons. I don't want to be the reason that he has to play through whatever problems he's having.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm going to meta all the slots that I think are in scumpool and find at least one scum to lynch for today. After lynching scum it'll prolly be easier to convince everyone to murderfuck Morality.

[Aurathebirb]

Vedith and Morality's interactions here make it seem like they aren't a scumteam. Maybe that was the intention though? I'm not ruling it out.

Morality's continued referencing his own alignment is driving me nuts but I think its town sided.

Boats I'm finding difficult to read. Half of me says town the other half says scum.

I’m an ascetic Miller.

One of those are true.

are we policy lynching this today, or day before lylo?

VOTE: Morality

Like stuff like this I could interpret either way. Early posts by Boats are quite aggressive, but not in a way that makes me think he's mislynch pushing.

Re: Cowbells -

I disagree. I’m NAI at best. If anything, I think I’m townie than most people. People just like to scum read the guy who self analyzes and controls the game flow early before actual reads are set in.

Stuff like this makes Morality seem like he's not trying to appear town and is in fact genuinely town.

I am unironically treating Shoshin as conftown unless she does something major to make me reconsider

then stop voting town

I'm actually starting to consider whether I might actually want Boats lynched. He does give an impression of being forced.

Vedith's posts have little substance but that's not neccesarily a scum tell. In my experience this is more of a playstyle than anything. Nothing pointing to scum for me.

Comma, equal. Anything productive to post? Maybe a better vote or at least reasons for your vote that aren't just wrong?

This post here (directed at Yellow) is furthering my bad feelings about Boats

tbh I've been ignoring everything morality posts until d2
what is the lie

Roomy definitely looked like town

@Shoshin

I'm assuming the vote is a response to me calling Shoshin town without any real explanation behind it so it looks like pocketing. I'm questioning your read on me the same way Yellow, though I haven't done so with a vote.

Its TOO smooth. This is a politician's answer.

I think I already said I was scum reading RCEnigma but yeah that's still happening. Couldn't think of how to phrase my reasoning. Maybe a tone thing?

It's cool, I get this often honestly. There are players that read what I'm doing and there are players that read what I'm saying. I think Teacher and Varsoon are the only players I've come across that can pin point what I'm doing. Everyone else falls into the latter category.

Like butter

Considering Sho didn't really put that much pressure on Enigma I don't really see how this can be strongly town read.

Gonna finish that reread later, but wanted to look at ISOs. They're less reliable without the context but its hard to form an opinion on someone like Tarkus without one.

---

Tarkus' early posts don't really say much.

ah you noticed me!

Don't like this response to pressure from Cowbells

Ok. Why are you voting morality?

This line of questioning looked half baked

I don't really see much else. Nothing that makes me feel with any confidence that he's more likely to be town than not.

---

I'm more confident in DrDos slot being town now.

Vedith looks like chill town. But some of his posts do look town readable.

Nah I'm not lynching Creature.
Reason too weak.

Actually Creature might be Scum.
There s guaranteed Scum within RCE, Creature, CoA, DDL and Tarkus.
Maybe even two, but I'm sure only one.

I'm helping \o/

This progression doesn't make that much sense from scum pov

--------------

Lynch in [Boats, Yellow, Enigma, Tarkus] preferred

Changed my mind on a Cowbells for today. Not a good d1. Should be reexamined on a later day

[Shoshin]

Morality's play is also unnaturally mechanical. Like, his belief that there's scum between me/RC doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. His scumread on me took a couple aspects of my play outside context while ignoring most of what I was doing/saying. It feels like he's more interested in shitting up the thread than finding scum. There's no clear townreads or attempt to find townies. He's mostly around to stoke paranoia about players who are already under enough suspicion to potentially get lynched (e.g. me, or RC).

[Aurathebirb]

I meant to preface that post with a statement saying that I was rereading from the start and give context oops

[Shoshin]

Shoshin I think we should respect a legitimate claim of needing a day off for mental health reasons. I don't want to be the reason that he has to play through whatever problems he's having.

His mental health issues don't mean I can't analyze his play so far or discuss why it's scummy. Morality is free to take the day off. I'm not talking to him. I'm talking to Vorkuta and players other than Morality.

[Shoshin]

Stuff like this makes Morality seem like he's not trying to appear town and is in fact genuinely town.

It's pure WIFOM. Scum's bread-and-butter.

[RadiantCowbells]

Stuff like this makes Morality seem like he's not trying to appear town and is in fact genuinely town.

he makes these posts as scum too.

[RadiantCowbells]

Pls don't take 1435 as a slip that he's town. It's how I phrase things.

[Vorkuta]

@RC
Tell you what after your "green" flip- I will absolutely and unquestioningly hammer him if the time comes.
But the wagon has to come from the other players.

@Shoshin
-In the future, it'll be more difficult for him to stay consistent with his paper trail (unless he has a plan for D5 already)
-I've been in games with 2 town reaction test players (from what I explicitly remember) who've done exactly the same thing and I've mislynched one of them.

I've just stated that I don't like reaction-testy playstyles as they can retroactively shield themselves from all criticism
>Votes *random person here*
>Town outrage and uproar
>"Reaction test, just chill out"
Plus it provokes rage/hostility.

Here's the issue- If other players were online & Morality was more engaged, they'd be convincing me of exactly the same shit about RC.
They'd find something/somewhere, something tonal, something playstyle oriented, something meta, whathaveyou.
You have an agenda. You think it's to your wincondition. You're pushing it. I understand and respect it, but I don't know if I want to be corralled into it as well.

[Shoshin]

Aura, how reliable are your reads?

[RadiantCowbells]

@RC
Tell you what after your "green" flip- I will absolutely and unquestioningly hammer him if the time comes.
But the wagon has to come from the other players.

@Shoshin
-In the future, it'll be more difficult for him to stay consistent with his paper trail (unless he has a plan for D5 already)
-I've been in games with 2 town reaction test players (from what I explicitly remember) who've done exactly the same thing and I've mislynched one of them.

I've just stated that I don't like reaction-testy playstyles as they can retroactively shield themselves from all criticism
>Votes *random person here*
>Town outrage and uproar
>"Reaction test, just chill out"
Plus it provokes rage/hostility.

Here's the issue- If other players were online & Morality was more engaged, they'd be convincing me of exactly the same shit about RC.
They'd find something/somewhere, something tonal, something playstyle oriented, something meta, whathaveyou.
You have an agenda. You think it's to your wincondition. You're pushing it. I understand and respect it, but I don't know if I want to be corralled into it as well.

You can't just stay out of it when it's to your wincondition to find scum.

[Shoshin]

What's your plan for winning this game, Vorkuta? How do you intend to find scum on D1? What're you looking for?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I understand the way that you feel

But the nature of the game is sometimes you get sucked into fights between players like me and Morality who you would never scumread as scum and you can't just close your eyes and pretend its not happening.

On some level, you do understand that Morality is not a player that you would correctly scumread, right?

[Vorkuta]

Morality/RC is probably 0 scum, hopefully not 1 scum, and I sure as hell hope not 2 scum.
Let's assume neither of you are godbeings that can coach your scum teammates so perfectly that they'll never slip up.

Everyone has a scum pool of at least 3 players by now. Let's look at that.

[RadiantCowbells]

DDL/Vedith/Tarkus is my shortlist.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC
CoA
Shoshin
Vorkuta
Aurathebirb
Boats n hoes

hardtown

Rcenigma
Creature

strong town

Yellowsnow

lean town

Veidth
DDL
Tarkus
Morality

scumpool

[RadiantCowbells]

Most of my reads in my top 8 are distinctions without a difference, by the way.

[Shoshin]

I think Enigma's hardtown. I agree with the rest.

[Shoshin]

I'd have Tarkus at the same level as Yellow, actually.

[Aurathebirb]

Aura, how reliable are your reads?

Can be good or bad

I sometimes miss obvious things but have a history of reading scum that other people thought were definite town

[Yachting n Socializing]

VOTE: Morality

very busy between my experiments and classes but I hope to catch up tomorrow