Mini Normal 2058 (Endgame)

[DrDolittle]

You have a swing of morality from conf town in 253 to scum in 400 something

[DrDolittle]

Other than that nothing as far as I can recall

[RCEnigma]

Boats scum to town, Vedith null to town, snow leantown to null, RC...well he hasn't really moved per say. I keep flipping over his alignment in my head but I'm not committed to reading him today so town by proxy of shoshin.

[RCEnigma]

Actually Creature might be Scum.
There s guaranteed Scum within RCE, Creature, CoA, DDL and Tarkus.
Maybe even two, but I'm sure only one.

I'm helping \o/

This Poe doesn't come from scum, I guess you could argue snow isn't in it because RC backed him early. In Vedith's case in relation to his play so far it would make more sense to snipe the easy lynches. It might be vain but I don't consider myself an easy lynch and CoA being thrown in puts a flag up. There's an angle to push with Tarkus/Roomy having 1 scum that Vedith avoided altogether so putting them at the end of the Poe only really makes sense to me if they are BOTH scum with him.

However only snow has really been willing to throw a vote down on him and Aura is the only person to really throw a townread down on him or consider him as town. Which signals to me that he's lynchbait, I think he's realized this as well and hasn't done much to change that perception which doesn't come from scum imo either.

[RCEnigma]

I changed my view on Boats in large part for the exchanges he's had with Vedith, they feel fluid and much better than his forced posting in regards to Morality early. I think most of my issue was his inconsistent meta scumread on me but I can buy that he wasn't committed to it in retrospect.

[Yachting n Socializing]

Um I dont want to give details but I may need to sub, I've been on with 911 for the last hour etc. Dont worry, I'm physically fine as is my family and all, just higher priority than mafia. I'll keep the mod updated.

[RCEnigma]

My hangup with RC/Morality was that if they both rolled scum together I was fully expecting them to buss each other day 1. I was waiting for it actually, and what do you know we have a 1v1 that fizzles out pretty quickly.

I'll ping out some of the posts that prefaced this but I mostly expected it based on Moralitys setup of the situation, it doesn't necessarily mean it's S/S but it was premeditated at least on Moralitys end.

[RCEnigma]

Originally I pushed creature as an alignment check and figured RC was doing the same. It's why I brought my theory against RC not voting up. His contributions haven't convinced me he's town in any way. DDL coming in and defending Creature doednt help though it could be ddl TMI'ng. They aren't associated reads but they aren't unconnected if that makes sense.

What he just did with shoshin and myself is what he's been doing with CoA since he repped in. The case on Shoshin is considerably narrow given her body of work and is based on meta. He hasn't really cased CoA and I don't think he can get her lynched today so he's debasing reads on her in case there's an opening to Lynch later. The same way he's debasing shoshin/I. At the very least it's to break up our townreads on each other.

If shoshin let me pocket myself though I'd be pretty impressed.

[CultOfAthena]

Sorry, not really feeling up to it lately.

Catching up.

[CultOfAthena]

I mean I really don't like to be this reliant on meta-reads. So I'm probably going to take everything that people say in that area with a grain of salt.

Any scum player is going to attempt to replicate their town meta as scum. And the fact that Creature's scum meta has been labeled as very obviously different from his town meta means that he can easily fake being town if he wants to. (That said, see below)

Similarly, I'm hesitant about any entirely meta based reads of players who are considered to be very good. Someone in that category of player would know what kind of things they are likely to be town read for. I'd be more curious to know if anyone looks like they're playing to their town meta, but in a way that looks forced.

No... that's not really how meta reads work. The reason that effective meta reads exist in the first place comes from an obvious difference between people's town and scum games. Yes, it is theoretically possible for someone to mimic their towngame as scum, but those type of people... don't tend to get meta-read.

That being said, I actually do agree with you in that Creature is most likely town. I'm willing to believe that he just had a slow start.

Unvote

I've heard a lot about how his old meta is no longer reliable in reading him, but apart from perhaps a single game (Transformers Mafia) I can't think of a game that actually demonstrates this. Interested if someone actually has one.


I probably re-vote Tarkus here, going to check VC.

[CultOfAthena]

Her main scumread is DDL. If you want to sheep her because you agree with her read, that's not sheeping. If you dont want to sheep CoA because you disagree with her scumreads, that is also not sheeping.

My main scumread is Tarkus. I'm not sure where you got the idea that it was DDL from, although I do also scumread him.

I strongly believe CoA would object to me sheeping her on a read that I disagree with regardless.

Meh.

I would never expect you to do it because I would hope that you would never expect me to do so. I would hope that you would actually come to agree with me if you're sheeping me rather than just following, so I guess you're right.

If Shoshin is town she will force scum to nightkill her before endgame

We never Lynch her D1 ever

This is proveably false from the games I linked

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=76303 [lynched]
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=77661 [endgamed]

She was mechanically falsely guiltied in that first game. Maybe you should... actually read some of the games that you're using as meta evidence.

Either way, the fact that Shoshin has been endgamed before doesn't imply that she's not valuable to keep around. I can speak to recent experience that supports what RC said.

What is COA and Soshin's scum meta?

Lurk lurk lurk

Funny... you've said exactly this in literally every single game we've played together for months now.

Well, I say funny, but really it's not actually that funny at all. If you want to lynch actual lurk!scum, vote Tarkus.

[CultOfAthena]

re Shoshin for a player with so little content I would expect more specific reads when they do post. COA said she's a good player and she hasn't played like it yet.

I don't recall saying I'm a good player. Other people have said it about me, but I've made no such claim. Honestly, I despise the "Wow, she's supposed to be good but she's being pretty disappointing, guess she's not as good as blahblah" more than anything.

Spoiler:

This is where I'm at on this game. Aura, Vorkuta, Enigma, Radiant, and COA are my strongest townreads. I won't consider lynching here unless everyone else is dead. And I think there's reasons to scumread every other player in the game.

I'm trusting Radiant that Boats/Snow is town, at least for today. I was scumreading Boats because his analysis is so mechanical, almost reminds me of someone like Mathblade, but I'm willing to let that go for the moment. I had Snow as strong town earlier but after reading through one of his scum games I don't feel comfortable with that read anymore. I think the way he quickly changed course on his reads was opportunistic in precisely the same ways he was opportunistic as scum, plus I think his forgetfulness about Aura isn't as towny as I thought on first impression.

I have Tarkus as null. He feels less scummy than his play in one of his scum games, but I need to check his town games because he's still lurking here in ways that resemble scum.

Vedith is playing like trollish scum. I have nothing to say on this because despite scumreading his slot, I've been told his is just how he plays by Radiant. So, again, I'm willing to leave this slow alone for today.

I scumread Morality from the start of the game. I thought he was trying too hard in the early parts of the game, cluttering the game with tons of pointless posts, and he hasn't actually made any attempt to scumhunt. His recent posts trying to cast me as scum aren't great either, especially since he seems to be doing the typical scum thing of ignoring large aspects of what I'm doing so that he can make me look scummy. Radiant agrees with this read, so Morality is up for lynching as far as I'm concerned.

roomy gave me strong vibes. I thought the fact that he replaced out after just a small amount of bickering from two players felt fake, especially since it didn't even involve him. DDL's play has been shit. His meta on me is crap. His attempt to scumread both me and Enigma is based entirely on dumb details that have nothing to do with alignment (e.g. his notion that haven't been following up on things when I'm actually following up on everthing, just not necessarily shitting the thread up with all my thoughts). I think he's scumreading me and Enigma based on associative tells rather than actual scumhunting (e.g. me and Enigma are townreading each other, so it seems like we're a team, even though there's actaully really good reasons for each of us to be townreadig each other).

Creature lurked out the first parts of the game, then entered the game posting lots of crap, superficial and shitty scumread on me that he should know better than to hold, especially after Starcraft Mafia, so who knows? I don't feel like he's been making a fair attempt at trying to read me, at least in the ways he usually will do. I also think Creature usually makes more of an attempt to fairly read lower post count players like myself, so the fact that he isn't doing that here is very concerning. He's probably scum.

If I had to guess a scumteam, I'd guess Creature, DDL, Morality (coincidence that they're all scumreading me?), and if those are wrong, it's Vedith with maybe Boats/Snow/Tarkus.

I'm gonna say this is terribad, agenda-driven and hopefully RC is right about Shoshin being fearkilled pretty early here if she's town.

"Terribad" is not a word I would use to describe that at all. I think that post shows that Shoshin has been taking notes on this game and actually analyzing things while asking very direct questions to help supplement her analysis... which is literally exactly what I expect from town Shoshin. Like, newsflash – proposing multiple scumteams and going "If I'm wrong on X then it's possible that it could be Y" aren't actually evidence of being scum. It's evidence of having a complex thought process and considering multiple possibilities. I'd argue scum are more likely to be tunnelled on one specific possibility.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'd appreciate your thoughts on Morality CoA

Tentatively willing to support you on Tarkus

[RadiantCowbells]

Feel free to hard lurk D1 if you're not into it but you need to come back and be useful on later day phases when I'm gone

[CultOfAthena]

I'm at around that part. Dealing with something else right now. Strictly business.

[DrDolittle]

. He hasn't really cased CoA and I don't think he can get her lynched today so he's debasing reads on her in case there's an opening to Lynch later. The same way he's debasing shoshin/I. At the very least it's to break up our townreads on each other.

Wot I just was asking why people thought coa was town. Man i cant go around casing everyone what do you think I am a neet?

[DrDolittle]

This Poe doesn't come from scum, I guess you could argue snow isn't in it because RC backed him early. In Vedith's case in relation to his play so far it would make more sense to snipe the easy lynches. It might be vain but I don't consider myself an easy lynch and CoA being thrown in puts a flag up. There's an angle to push with Tarkus/Roomy having 1 scum that Vedith avoided altogether so putting them at the end of the Poe only really makes sense to me if they are BOTH scum with him.

Why doesnt this apply to me

[RCEnigma]

You aren't playing a lazy game. I also get the feeling you're pulling pressure from creature and of the creature voters I'm the easier push. Relatively speaking.

[YellowSnow]

re Shoshin for a player with so little content I would expect more specific reads when they do post. COA said she's a good player and she hasn't played like it yet.

I don't recall saying I'm a good player. Other people have said it about me, but I've made no such claim. Honestly, I despise the "Wow, she's supposed to be good but she's being pretty disappointing, guess she's not as good as blahblah" more than anything.

I meant you said Shoshin was a good player. She's played better since her Morality exchange than before.

[YellowSnow]

Aurathebirb
YellowSnow

Shoshin
Creature
RadiantCowbells
RCEnigma
Boats n Hoes
CultOfAthena
Tarkus
Vorkuta

Vedith
DrDolittle
Morality

[Creature]

Woah, 13 whole new pages

[Creature]

Great, I'll have something to do this afternoon.

[Creature]

Vorkuta, Creature....ATTACK!

What?

[Creature]

Who are RC's partners, Morality?

I'd rather talk about them after a scumflip.

[Creature]

I feel so aliveee.

This is why I play mafia tbh

Yeah, it's pretty enjoyable to engage into an argument and break down their points.