Mini 2059: Secrets of the Anuket Topaz [Over]

[Ankamius]

I don't think I've ever been called scum for being too controlled before

[Ankamius]

I'll get to the rest later

I need to wake up first

[skitter30]

i'm kinda skimming nimueh's posts and gun-to-head i think she's kinda scummy but i don't know if that's because i'm carrying a lot of animus from how she behaved in the last game i played with her; i would not have joined this game if i had known who her main was

i'm kinda like actively not trying to engage her so i'm trying to decide if i should just replace out here because trying to not sort her is obviously counterproductive

==

i kinda think ank is town now actually
she comes off a lot better than brigitte does in both of their recent exchanges

Explain. I'd argue she comes off more controlled, but pretty sure that's more scummy than townie, IMO.

i don't know - it kinda felt like she was approaching her convos with brigitte with a goal (first convo refuting brigitte's scumread, seconc convo getting another opinion on brigitte and then trying to gague if scum!brigitte would back down under pressure), whereas brgitte felt a lot more like she was flailing when ank pushed her and like she didn't know how to respond ank; it felt less like she was approaching the exchange with a consistent thought process that guided her posts/pushes/responses, but rather that she just said the first thing that popped into her head when she was met with resistance by me/urap2/ank/reck - discrediting reck by saying he wasn't reading the game.

like the convo last night wrt ank and then reck: she started off with objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte/brigitte's case on reck because reck had been scumreading her all game so he's obviously biased. once i pointed out that wasn't true (ie his scumread on her had developed in the last 20 pages or so), and that scumreading someone dones't mean they can't objectively look at a post, brigitte's posting shifted to discrediting reck in general on the basis that he isn't reading the game, which is kinda obviously not true. and i kinda disliked that she was using that as an excuse to not engage with reck at all; it kinda felt like that once reck started siding with ank her next goal was to try to discredit him - like she went from objecting to ank asking reck how he was reading brigitte to discrediting reck and i don't follow that as a townie thought process really, but it kinda makes sense to me as a response by scum to getting pushed and getting backed into a corner

i do think that ank (in middle of that convo with brigitte) saying that she thought scum!brigitte would have dropped the push and then unvoting was townie because i think that scum!her would continue pushing brigitte there while she had momentum to try to score a mislynch; a couple of ank's posts at that juncture seem like she was rethinking her brigitte read in real-time, in response to brigitte's reaction to her

idk i hope i explained that well enough
==

She even made in my mind one of the scummiest post trying to get me to stop my push by saying "I am giving you a chance here" and

framed it in a way where she basically couldn't really lose.

If I continue, I am the unreasonable person. If I stop she wins by not having me stop. That wasn't a real olive branch that was a Xanatos gambit.

actually i think i understand where brigitte was coming from last night a bit more; i didn't get why she thought that ank was framing her as being unreasonable but this explanation makes more sense to me and it explains a lot of the frustration that was threading through her posts last night

i still dont't get why this exchange with ank was followed by the reck-isn't-reading thing tho

==

does ank not look manipulative and controlled to you?

not there, no

what do you think about the fact that ank put her vote back on?

i liked at that time that she unvoted because it felt like if she's scum there's little motivation for her to unvote briggite when people are just coming 'round to side with ank; much more scum motivation to continue pushing and to try to get that mislynch. re-voting when a brigitte wagon appears kinda undermines that reasoning tho; i dont' like the unvote quite as much now but i still think it's kinda townie since it came in conjunction with posts that indicated that ank was trying to re-evaluate brigitte in response to how brigitte was acting towards her (specifically 1281 and 1296 taken together)

==

damn, even more reason not to try and send them into a rage.

I've asked the thread generally a number or times now, but here's to you specifically.

What motivation did you have for provoking him like that?

I told you immediately during it I was trolling him. What do you think I am trying to do here?

i think that this is an awful way to play the game but i'm not sure it's actually scummy
UNVOTE:
(although i missed you saying last night htat you were trying to troll him)

[Ankamius]

Because as I said, she wins more points in her favor by doing so which is doing with you. You might think its real, but I don't its real. I haven't found a lot of her stances and posts genuine here.

Why would I need to get more favor now that I have support from the people that were scumreading me rather than when everybody was scumreading me?

It's nonsensical for me to spend so much time provoking people who are already scumreading me and not trying to turn those reads around until the pressure at least somewhat gets off of me, and then later put on the pocketing act when I'm getting the wagon I've been pushing for half the game.

It doesn't fit as a consistent scum thought process.

[Ankamius]

And I see Ankamius’ stance on easy lurker lynches, as townie.

And I'm going to keep telling you that I do this as scum too. This isn't a good reason to townread me.

[skitter30]

Would scum!nimueh ever try to mislynch you?

[Ankamius]

Sorry. I'll catch up in a minute. I popped in to check on the thread and saw I was getting misrepped again, so I decided to work through this with quotes so you guys can see where she's openly contradicting herself.

Idk how I feel about you feeling the need to explain this immediately after the posts in question

[Ankamius]

Would scum!nimueh ever try to mislynch you?

If Nimueh is who I think they are, then they absolutely wouldn't. That's suicide.

[skitter30]

Yeah that's what i thought too

[Ankamius]

Your interpretation of your play is different from someone else's interpretation of your play. When did what I did at the beginning of the game, I saw like four different people explain what I did. None of them were wrong, they were all just completely and entirely different, and not the way I would have described it.

Please stop making posts telling us how to read you, because it doesn't help.

I don't understand how this is at all relevant to my point that I'm more concerned with HOW people get their reads on me than what their reads are.

You can say all you want about my self meta this game, but I've been using it to try to dismantle townreads as well as scumreads this game.

Most of the playerlist is pretty unfamiliar with how I play and this very often results in people reading me for bizarre reasons. I like to nip the very incorrect ones in the bud because people using more correct metrics to read me means that it's a lot less likely for people to randomly switch to a scumread of me out of nowhere when I need to get a specific lynch just because I "feel like I have an agenda" or other such nonsense.

I play town like most people do scum
And I play scum like most people do town

And my playstyle completely revolves around having enough influence when I really need it to create a decisive victory, so I need to be damn sure I can get people to townread me for the right reasons or I'll have a much harder time doing that when I need to.

[Ankamius]

And I don't give a shit that people scumread me because I just don't ever get lynched as town.

I'm confident in my ability to deflect any wagon on me and the scumreads in the end actually help me stay alive to have an impact in the future where I'm more effective.

[Ankamius]

(btw yes I do get lynched as town, but town never wins when they do it; it requires town to already be too far gone)

[Ankamius]

Brig's case on Ank feels like an attempt to voice a gut read on Ank. I'm gonna be honest I haven't read Ank super close, but I definitely see where Brig is coming, and I don't really like the arguments made against her by Reck, at least.

This isn't vague at all!

[Ankamius]

I can untunnel myself just fine Brigitte

does it help to mention that I'm prone to deathtunnels

huh.

What's the contradiction

I am well aware that I'm prone to deathtunnels and I have adapted to check for them so I can bail out of them when I can tell I fell into one.

So yes, I am prone to deathtunneling. I am also able to untunnel myself because I've been working on it for around four years now. No contradiction.

[Ankamius]

Ank/urap looks like good cop bad cop. quickly doubting my townread on urap atm

This isn't vague at all!

[Ankamius]

How was rereading?

Very good, thank you

[Ankamius]

As far as I'm following, Brigitte's argument is that Ank's scumread of her feels like OMGUS and completely manufactured because it's just the same thing Brigitte said back at her.

Do you genuinely think I felt threatened by her?

She hasn't successfully spearheaded a push on me so far, a lot of the support she had on me had either evaporated or greatly diminished by then, and her level of towncred isn't enough to charisma her way towards lynching me in the first place.

What exactly am I supposed to be afraid of enough to OMGUS?

[Ankamius]

The collective argument against Brigitte is that Reck and Ank think Brigitte's argument is dumb and disagree with it,

Incorrect. The crux of my argument has always been her actions around the fake hammer and how she's approached a scumread of me.

The only reason it comes off that her case is the main point is because it was directly relevant at that time.

[Ankamius]

Ank looks like she played the role of the little brother, poking and prodding the older sibling just enough to get Brig all riled up, and then ran to mom (Reck) and said "older sibling touched me." This looks like it was pretty intentional to me, and I don't like it.
Urap looked kinda like he was trying to help ank bait brig in, too.

This is awful.

I've been "poking and prodding" everybody, yet I haven't made any major push on anybody but her and Urap2 with that. Even then, Urap2 push was dropped after he reframed.

So what exactly is the reason for me to be pushing Brigitte like I am and not anybody else? Note that Brigitte was pretty townread before that point and I'd had no success pushing her before that point.

[Ankamius]

How's this gamesolve:

Urap pushes NMSA out of the gate, Ank plays distancing game, casting shade on urap and defending nmsa (before NMSA did anything really worth defending) all while Nimueh wasn't here. Nimueh wouldn't jump on NMSA wagon, remember?

Urap flips his read entirely on NMSA (looking for hard towncred, I'd assume? This part is the weird part of the solve) and disassembles the lynch. maybe this has something to do with reck pushing Lynch All Lurkers? Not sure. Ank takes towncred for taking the wagon off NMSA and defending him the whole time :roll: and then Nimueh gets to game thread and tries to sap up some towncred in the process.

I don't know, it feels like a bit of a reach, but I think I could see it.

You're right, this IS a reach.

The big glaring flaw is that it makes no sense to push a scum partner like I was when they are already in a good spot. If I wanted towncred from distancing, it makes a lot more sense to push on Nimueh when the "KILL ALL LURKERS" mentality was at its highest, and rely on how the gamestate formed to allow that wagon to dissipate naturally later on.

Or... I don't really need to distance in the first place, I just need to be townread enough to make it far enough in the game where I can eliminate everybody who is likely to catch me and then coast to endgame. That's an even simpler way to play scum in this game since I'd already have the advantage of having so many people unfamiliar with how I play in this game.

[Ankamius]

I'm a competent planner as both alignments, I'm not going to do something that ridiculous without a damn good reason to believe that it will help me or my team in the end, especially when I don't have a NK to rely on early on in the game.

That's absolutely ridiculous.

[skitter30]

i have ank as pretty solidly town now btw, in case anyone was wondering

[skitter30]

@ank do you have a read on chara now?

[Ankamius]

Chara was scumread #2

But I also freely admit that I don't have the best track record of reading it and I'm not even all that confident in that read anyways

I think that slot is one I'll have to fit into a solve

[skitter30]

why were you scumreading them earlier/now?