Open 753: Nomination Mafia [Game Over!]

[Auro]

This is your evidence, Auro. I thought you would have picked this up if you cared that much.

Still a bad push. Also, you asked me what I thought initially, I said he was excited to play a game with me before the game started - this didn't do anything to affect your push either.

[Shoshin]

I had other reasons to push Irrel besides the "excitement" point. Why are you ignoring that part of the push?

[Shoshin]

The excitement was a minor part of why I pushed Irrel...

[Auro]

Who cares what's possible? Just because something's easy to fake doesn't mean it's more likely to come from scum. What kind of reasoning is this?

Adopting a playstyle that's easier to fake points to likelier scum, is my point, when you know you're not appearing as Towny as you could.

You're framing all of this as specific to RC interactions; I'll consider that.

[Shoshin]

Auro, the difference between being town/scum is that as scum you know the town are town so you don't have to sort them. This affords much greater freedom in how you interact with townies, which in turn makes it much easier to manipulate players into townreading you when you know what causes those players to townread you.

[Auro]

I'd have been trying a lot harder to be townread if I were scum, RC. I'd also be trying to push your lynch.

Here^ One more post that indicates you know you're not putting in effort to look towny. And then surprised when people scumread you?

[Shoshin]

Like, in this game, I'm trying to sort RC, so naturally I'm going to interact with him differently than I would if my only goal were to get him to townread me.

[Auro]

I think you're letting Irrel off too easy for scumreading me when he should know better. I understand why RC would get paranoid but Irrel should know that my play here wasn't anything like what he saw as scum.

This was your other reason to push Irre?
Still bad

[Shoshin]

You've somehow taken the idea that I'm not focusing exclusively on getting townread as somehow indicative that I'm scum? What is this logic, Auro?

[Shoshin]

Irrel shouldn't have stoked RC's paranoia about me. Irrel should have had me as null or town, not "ick."

[Shoshin]

I'd have been trying a lot harder to be townread if I were scum, RC. I'd also be trying to push your lynch.

Here^ One more post that indicates you know you're not putting in effort to look towny. And then surprised when people scumread you?

There's a difference between having RC scumread me and having him null on me. I'd understand if he were null. I don't believe he should ever have scumread me. I've done nothing scummy.

[Auro]

You've somehow taken the idea that I'm not focusing exclusively on getting townread as somehow indicative that I'm scum? What is this logic, Auro?

No. You know you're not putting in effort to look towny. You're adopting a style which I see as easier to fake. And yet, you find it absurd when anyone scumreads you.

I'll take 679 into consideration.

[Shoshin]

I'm appearing as towny as I possibly can in THIS game as n actual townie.

If I were scum, I could appear more towny to certain players because of the fact that I'd know those players were town and thus wouldn't have to actively sort them in my interactions but instead could focus exclusively on manipulating them.

[Auro]

There's a difference between having RC scumread me and having him null on me. I'd understand if he were null. I don't believe he should ever have scumread me. I've done nothing scummy.

Umm, why aren't players allowed to have a nullscum read on you if you're posting, but did nothing towny yet (in your admission) either?

[Shoshin]

Nullscum isn't acceptable for doing nothing. And besides, I'm extremely towny, Auro. I never said I did nothing towny. Why are you making all this crap up about me?

[Auro]

I'm appearing as towny as I possibly can in THIS game as n actual townie.

Okay, I get what you mean - you're claiming as scum you'd be manipulative enough to be widely townread; and as town now you're appearing as towny as you can possibly be. Correct? Looking towny isn't just a function of manipulating people, though.

I disagree you're extremely towny this game.

"Nullscum isn't acceptable for doing nothing" -> why not? If there's a slot I know I can sort, and they're doing nothing, I'll naturally put them at nullscum.

[Auro]

Why are you making all this crap up about me?

You're saying it's a stretch to assume stuff like "I'd be trying a lot harder to be townread as scum" to be indicative that you're not trying to be townread as town?

[Shoshin]

Your reasons for scumreading me are really bad, Auro.

[Shoshin]

Why are you making all this crap up about me?

You're saying it's a stretch to assume stuff like "I'd be trying a lot harder to be townread as scum" to be indicative that you're not trying to be townread as town?

The phrase "I'd be trying a lot harder as scum" implies that I'm trying here as town.

[Shoshin]

It doesn't imply that I'm not trying.

[Auro]

I think Shoshin is town

What do you make of her push on you?
What makes you feel she's town?

[GrandWazoo]

I'm appearing as towny as I possibly can in THIS game as n actual townie.

If I were scum, I could appear more towny to certain players because of the fact that I'd know those players were town and thus wouldn't have to actively sort them in my interactions but instead could focus exclusively on manipulating them.

In my experience posts that contain "If I were scum..." statements are more likely than not to come from scum.

[Auro]

It doesn't imply that I'm not trying.

It implies you're trying a lot less harder than you possibly can.
I independently don't get the feel that you're putting in effort to look town, aside from saying this.

I'll revisit this later.

Meanwhile: I'm okay with a Clem wagon but I think I'd be happier on Demonlord - is that lynch possible?

[Auro]

RadiantCowbells, can you explain why Wazoo is superlocktown?

[Shoshin]

I'm actively trying to find the scum, which is the towniest thing I can do as town. The point is that I have much more tools available to me as scum, which means I could put more effort into looking town than I can as an actual townie. That's the nature of being scum.

"Nullscum" is a terrible thing to say about someone who isn't towny yet. They're either scum via poe, null, or town via poe. Anything else needlessly biases how you read the player going forward, which isn't helpful to refining reads.

You're also missing the point, Auro. Irrel isn't confident reading me anymore because last time I was scum he wrongly read me as town (and not only him, everyone in the game basically thought I was the most towny player for the entire game). The point is, Irrel lacks confidence in reading me so his response of calling me "ick" doesn't make any sense. He knows I'm more than capable of towning my slot up as scum so the "ick" thing felt like an attempt to stoke RC's paranoia about me into a potential death tunnel.