In post 3896, Torque wrote:Did she actually encourage people to vote mastina
i don't recall anything like that
Yes she did.. in Channel 1. Ask Pink Ball. Joan fought hard against a mastina lynch, but finally gave in and decided "if she flip town I will power lynch all 3 of you" (our third being Near, who is NOT in channel 1, so didn't see that). Then I did my self-ISO and realized Elena would be a better5 lynch today because -to me- she is confirmed scum, AND because mastina is Loved today. I said that in the channel and promised a case when I could post in the main thread and Joan said she's OK with that lynch.
THEN.. in a SUBSEQUENT POST she started questioning why we would lynch Elena over mastina, and demanding that we vote mastina and eat rope when she flips green.
Again, ASK PB and he will confirm. I seem to remember her saying something to the same effect here to Wisdom, but I can't be bothered going back to reference it. Or maybe that's what I got out of it because I knew what she's been saying in the channel.
I don't even know if that's a new account. I knew she was Yume/Jeanne even before she signed up to this game, and I was surprised so many people didn't. But since it looked like no one did I decided to keep my mouth shut just in case she wanted it to be anonymous anyway.
But let's assume she is trying to change the way she plays. Doesn't that -by definition- mean she doesn't use previous games for reference? She wants to sheep mastina because in that previous game mastina was right, but that isn't the issue.. the issue is that she is still
sheeping
, which is not a great change from her previous play if you ask me. The one and only major difference is she is trying to post and didn't flake, and
I applaud that
. I can accept her playing this way for now, but I can't understand "No. Get back on mastina then eat rope if she flips town" when she had already said she was alright with Elena's lynch and has been arguing for mastina being town for the whole week.
Do you see my problem now? Any given player (not Joan.. just pick someone new.. someone who had just joined the site) I would expect to be happy when people finally yield and decide to leave their strong TR alone and pursue someone else's lynch,
especially
when they're
alright
with the new lynch candidate being lynched. Do you think that new player would go "No. We lynch my TR and then lynch you when they flip town"??
Yes, if said player wants to discourage future mistakes of this nature the only way they know how.
In post 3888, Almost50 wrote:Like what do I care if her 3rd Party win con was voided in SU2? What does that have to do with this game here? And why should I have cared?
Because we won with town, and therefore weren't a threat.
Again, you're missing the point(s):
1- We were not aware of that. I was TOWN, so I didn't know anything beyond the TOWN win con.
2- I didn't care. Even if I knew you could win with us, my main objective was for the Town to win, not to carry someone else with it.
3- There is no point referencing that now. Who the hell cares what happened in a game that's 2 years old? We are here, and we are trying to decide who is scum. We are not settling old accounts and we are not discussing who did whom wrong in 2017 (or was it 2016?) and how to get even for it.
And really, I interpreted your whole read change as an attempt to absolve yourself of responsibility if mastina were to flip green. Hence my change of mind.
245 and 255 are FoS's? one is "Jet why do you think Robert is town", the other is "Hey SSBF and Elena come talk"
the point about 262 is alright
the second point abut 825. self meta does virtually nothing to me and it's not like naming 3 people that early holds any merit that early anyway, so like, why NOT throw out names of 3 wolves?
844 I dunno, do you think I should magically know your meta. it really isn't up for me to judge
845 What's the last word I posted in channel 48?
1222 is fair
the others i either don't feel strongly about or i got bored of reading wall
In post 3901, Joan of Arc wrote:Yes, if said player wants to discourage future mistakes of this nature the only way they know how.
Well, I want to discourage future mistakes based on that game where you were scum with Ali & Chara (Wis probably can remind me if the tile).
So, I'm going to lynch you on D1 in every game we play so as to discourage future mistakes of ignoring you on D1 when you've been clearly scum (And with Ali in particular. If you don't remember go back and ISO me in that game as I did say Ali defence of you was indicative of you being scum with them).
In post 3890, Torque wrote:She wants to be better and be respected. But people evidently stop doing that when they figure out her main and that's whats frustrating her
Torque.. let's define the line between 2 separate things: My support for her to play better, and me arguing about her play (or rather the mindset behind it).
It's like when you have respect for Creature trying to post more as scum, but then argue against the logic he is using to form reads in that game.
I don't think I've shown or hinted any disrespect towards Joan's play in this game. Not here in the main thread and not in the channel. I am now treating her as I am treating any of you. I am arguing against the logic not the play style. Got it?
My point about Joan seeking respect isn't pointed towards you, just she's been generally dismissed when she posts something. She also tilted at me for not responding to any of her posts
I also know her logic is flimsy lately but how is that not caused by emotions
In post 3901, Joan of Arc wrote:Yes, if said player wants to discourage future mistakes of this nature the only way they know how.
Well, I want to discourage future mistakes based on that game where you were scum with Ali & Chara (Wis probably can remind me if the tile).
So, I'm going to lynch you on D1 in every game we play so as to discourage future mistakes of ignoring you on D1 when you've been clearly scum (And with Ali in particular. If you don't remember go back and ISO me in that game as I did say Ali defence of you was indicative of you being scum with them).
I thought you said we wouldn't be bringing up past games, so why are you allowed to do so while forbidding me to use SU2 as a reference in the same breath?
I don't have the kind of time to read the elena case, will either do it after my exams ends tonight or tomorrow morning
What im currently thinking is
If the two completely different buckets of wolf pool are {Gamma, Elena, Mastina} and {Gamma, Near x Mello, A50, Pink Ball} then given the state of Vedith's lynch and Robert slot's self implosion I would believe it's more likely that the latter bucket is true. Now there are ways to test which bucket is true, but that requires night actions probably.
Gamma being in both buckets is weird. Someone tell me what we should think about that
Chito: Since Near just asked for the Joan discussion to stop, I'll go ahead and throw out that she could easily flip scum her.
The number of exact similarities to Story Revisited in this game really bugs me. In particular:
-claiming flavor/implying mechanics for no reason
-tunneling one player at a time
-...while constantly emphasizing that everything can be explained by Steven Universe 2...
-...and complaining about being ignored in her tunnel and guilt tripping people as a result
Like, the reason Near thinks that Joan is town is because she cannot fake her animosity toward him or something as scum, but frankly that is a garbage reason to give her an easy townread. And frankly if she's going to keep playing like this, constantly shading people for pushes and trying to do pre-flip guilt trips, without actually explaining things other than "read Steven Universe 2" then I don't really see why she should be outside the PoE.
And no, Near, this isn't a fucking playstyle critique, this is an observation that there are a LOT of similarities to her play in Story Revisited where she was scum.
Constant emphasis on Steven Universe 2, while not actually explaining what about that game is relevant or focusing on play in the game in question:
Spoiler:
In post 2912, NicoRobin wrote:I actually agree with Vecna. Just because a role seems town doesn't mean the alignment is. Read Steven Universe 2 for details, how about that?
VOTE: mastina
In post 2923, NicoRobin wrote:@Varsoon You were the mod of SU2, and you know what happened. So please back me up. They would actually listen to you as opposed to me..... :/
In post 2951, jjh927 wrote:If I'm making assumptions that you don't agree with then point them out. Otherwise my logic is fine and your outright "setup spec is never valid" logic falls TOTALLY flat when you recall that I have correctly used setup spec to assist in casing you in an RC game
Go read Steven Universe 2 game mafia, hosted by Varsoon. Focus on Reasonably Rational. Right there is the fault in your assumptions. People read his role as towny and yet he ended up being scum. Hence, reading someone as town on their role alone is a bad idea. Even mastina herself would agree with me on this one.
Return to complaining about being ignored:
Spoiler:
In post 3010, NicoRobin wrote:And don't ask me damn questions and then fucking ignore me.
p-edit: I told you my results. If you have something else in mind, please tell me what, because I am drawing a blank regarding what more you could possibly want......
Even in the context of a mechanical bus, continued emphasis on Steven Universe 2:
In post 3248, Chickadee wrote:Like, walk me through everything step-by-step from your point of view, like I am stupid.
Okay, you shouldn't read mastina as town by role alone, which is endorsed by my ability, proving she lied about said role.
Further proof lies in Varsoon's SU2 mafia.
Both my role and my past experience prove she is more likely to be scum than she is to be town and that you should read her by play; and what aspect of her play is town?
^My POV in a nutshell
***All that being said, I don't really think we should flip Joan today, and I'm not even sure she's a top scumread.
But I don't see why we should act like her alignment is not in question or that she is simply tunneled town that we have to play around. She hides behind crap meta arguments and ridiculous tunnels as scum. I know that game she was being coached by mastina, but there is no reason she would not have simply picked up on mastina's coaching and tried to apply it on her own terms.
I'm just saying, trying to shut down discussion on this slot isn't healthy given I still have concerns, even if she's more a PoE 'can be scum if needed' than a scumread right now.
Also I think I just want to have this wallpost handy so that I have it ready to go every time Steven Universe 2 comes up, because given she will put nonstop emphasis on that game in particular as a reason to avoid giving reads as scum, I don't see how that's so different than her play here. So if she wants it to be relevant, she needs to cite specific posts or concepts that shape her read, not just "read this entire game that happened ages ago."
Chito: I'm also okay expanding that every time you say to just ignore Joan. We have no mechanical clear on Joan and I'm not ignoring that slot just because you think she is too hostile to you to be scum.
245 and 255 are FoS's? one is "Jet why do you think Robert is town", the other is "Hey SSBF and Elena come talk"
the point about 262 is alright
the second point abut 825. self meta does virtually nothing to me and it's not like naming 3 people that early holds any merit that early anyway, so like, why NOT throw out names of 3 wolves?
844 I dunno, do you think I should magically know your meta. it really isn't up for me to judge
845 What's the last word I posted in channel 48?
1222 is fair
the others i either don't feel strongly about or i got bored of reading wall
245: "How is Robert the towniest,
or even townie at all
?"
This is my way of saying I actually SR him. If I even NULL read him then the bolded doesn't fit. I'd just ask why he was town.
255: Again.. it's my meta (ever since I joined the site.. you can check all my games) to FoS lurkers. Once I said someone is lurking it means they're on my scum leans.
825: Lynch Elena and let's find out.
844: You can either ask someone who does or do a quick meta dive. In general, diffusing TvT doesn't help scum. letting it blow does.
845: How the fuck am I supposed to know? I can ask PB if you like! I explicitly said I only had access to Channels 1 & 5, but chose to spread doubt so as to discourage people from claiming in channels, and it didn't even work.
I'll tell you what I know so well
You're scum and you're not acting well
You know you should admit your guilt
Gonna get you now
Gonna get to you
I'm lynching you with inspiration
A-a-a-a-aah a-a-ah a-a-ah a-a-a-a-aah
Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on
You and nobody else
Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on
Just walk this way
Come on, come on, come on, come on, come on
You and nobody else
I wanna take you out of this thread
Just want to lynch you
Just want to lynch you
Lynch you
Just want to lynch you
Just want to lynch you
Lynch you
I won't lynch, I won't lynch
I won't lynch anybody else
I won't lynch, I won't lynch
I won't lynch anybody else
I won't lynch, I won't lynch
I won't lynch anybody else
I won't lynch, I won't lynch
I won't lynch anybody else
Chito: I am not a telepath and you have other reasons you have not said, then no, I don't know them and won't be taking the things you didn't say into account when considering my read.
844 mastina told me that this is your wolf meta and i'm not really expecting anybody in my channel is going to disagree there considering who's in it? = =
I wish I still have the kind of time and OCD to go to the depths of digging meta. idk if i can ever get them now tbh
Maybe! Maybe.
845 aye sorry sorry i didn't see you can only see channel 1 and 5
She is out of her scum range. You need to understand her personality and what she would fake and not fake. Its not as simple as "i dont like this playstyle, lets lynch it"
