Anime U-Pick: King Size [SEASON FINALE...?]

[mastina]

Pretty sure this isn't the hammer, so:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

Today I finally have the capability to fucking respond to the last...what? 20 pages or so?

I know that technically speaking placing a vote on the lead wagon is detrimental to that as it only takes a hammer in order for my ability to catch up be silenced, but hey.
That's what the neighborhood is for; it serves as an emergency catchup backup, where I can outline my thoughts and bring them to the thread D4 if need be.

But ideally, nobody hammers until after I finished catching up, which will take me a few hours most likely.

[mastina]

Going to rewind for a bit to go back here:

Chito: you get that no one is going to take you self-metaing an argument that you're not proactive as scum seriously when you spend every other post saying you can do literally anything as scum right

It's not a useless point, though.
It's simple math.
I draw scum, on average, about 25% of my games. This is a hard fact, yes?
I am proactive in, at most, about 25% of my scumgames. This is something I just demonstrated, yes?
I am proactive in this game. You don't debate that, do you?

Well then what do you get when you crunch those numbers?

25% * 25% = 6.25% chance that I am scum who is proactive this game.

When you look at it that way, not so worthless to talk about, is it?

[Almost50]

Pretty sure this isn't the hammer, so:
VOTE: Gamma Emerald.

When was the last time mastina miscounted votes and "accidentally" hammered??

[mastina]

But first, let me claim (something mastina is opposed to).

Oh I'm all in favor of my scumreads claiming; I'm also in favor of a massclaim--

tomorrow

, not today.

[Almost50]

In b4 Gamma is actually town and mastina is out to discredit me but "Oh, well.. I miscounted.. Gamma was town and A50 is scum do let's lynch him tomorrow."

[Chito and Yuuri]

Chito: Yeah with that hammer optimism in a red flip on Gamma plummets :/

womp womp

so anyway should we ditch our role? All we do tonight is change from being a pgo to a disloyal pgo which, I guess is cool but seems kinda passive for getting an endgame solve. Put faith in the RNG and reroll or...?

[mastina]

IMPORTANT: MASTINA WAS PUSHING TOOG HARD. He flipped Town and she didn't reevaluate. She's accusing Wisdom of the very same thing she's doing (just as she is accusing me of playing the way she does as scum)

The difference between the two is that Wisdom has been pushing Elena-mastina as a scumteam

in spite of

a SCUMFLIP which should have brought the scumteam into question.

Toogeloo flipped town, when I had said from the onset, my POE pool was larger than the scumteam. It was ALWAYS going to contain town. That was never a question; my POE pool--as you yourself point out--has, for the entire game, been approximately double the number of scum in the game. Literally 50% of the people in my POE pool at any time are

guaranteed

to flip town.

You, yourself, ALSO point out that I've made my stances on my reads clear; they are fallible, because I am not a top-tier scumhunter.
My townreads? Those aren't going to be wrong and if they are I'd fully expect to be lynched; I'd deserve it.
But my scumreads? I've said from the beginning of the game and have been quite insistent throughout it that I expect to be wrong on them, not to be right.

The reason I'm pushing so hard on you/Gamma is that Elena's got a pass for today, Near x Mello looks unlikely to be scum, and literally everyone else in the game has quite strong reasons to be town.

Those who know me know I do not bus unless necessary, and I simply don't see the need arising just yet at that point.

Who said you bussed?
You can point out suspicion on a scumbuddy, even vote them, without it being a bus, if you've no intention to stay on that wagon.
It's called "distancing", something you absolutely do do as scum.

Can somebody point out why I would state such a strong TR on Toog this early? Why Toog??

It's called "white knighting", and Toogeloo was an easy target for it; someone who is widely scumread, whose townflip puts those attacking him in a worse position and those defending him in a better one.

364 Check scum!me nitpicking on my scum buddy, drawing attention to a slip nobody else seems to have noticed or taken issue with.

Ever heard the expression "TMI"?
The reason nobody noticed or took issue with the slip is because it is the sort of thing that only a scumbuddy would notice.

402 I am half-arse defending Creature (instead of jumping all over him for doing what he does as scum). Scum!me states Creature can be like this as town. Right.

Yes, right.
You're half-assing the defense.

Instead of committing to it, you let yourself have the opportunity to back out if need be.

Would I be more likely to forget to post as town or scum in a game of this caliber? I'll leave that for everyone to answer to themselves.

Wholly nai and don't pretend otherwise. Getting prodded has no alignment attached to it. If it did, I'd be calling you scum for it, but I know better than that.

Good interaction between 2 scum buddies. He even invites his scum buddy to vote with him, but -also- shades his scum buddy for unvoting him.

Yes that was precisely my point.

So, Scum me encourages a cerb/Drixx combined force and Town Mastina shades it????

Yes--because town doesn't know that both Cerb/Drixx are town.
Scum, however, would.
I had reason to believe Cerb was scum at the time. I was thus "shading" him because I was suspicious of him.
You put them both as town without critical analysis. This also applies to:

Also check 734 for me vs Mastian on Toog's alignment. Enough said.

(Note: ONLY major failure was on Vedith, whom I couldn't imagine would state he voted his counterwagon to survive as scum)

Yes your 'only' major failure was one of the two most important fucking flips in the game.

Your "two of these are town, one is scum" is also worthless without saying WHICH of them is the town and which of them is the scum.
You can claim all you want that Robert was scum with the other two as town, now that those flips have happened--where's the proof from before the flip?

...Yeah thought so. There isn't any.

In what world does scum me specify 3 slots as scum and TRs everyone else at this point?

In what world do you not?
It's the perfectly logical stance to take.
Pushing a member of the Vedith wagon would, once Vedith flipped scum, immediately put pressure on you for your chainsaw defense, for instance.

So far, I think these were all accurate statement, except that Vedith was scum.

"So far all the analysis is correct except for the GLARING error which is the most crucial detail of all".

post=#10711108]890[/post] I'm siding by Toog against mastina. Again, make your own judgement on which side I should be taking if I was scum.

When would you EVER side with me when you're scum?

It'd be a fucking red flag; you've NEVER, once in your entire career, sided with me. I'd have eviscerated you on the spot for it.

Mastina shading PB for something she KNEW would be true, since >I< mistook her for the mod earlier in this very game.

You're comparing apples and oranges and you know it.

It is possible to make some mixups in games.

It is not possible to make other mixups in games.

In a role madness UPick game where every player has a flavor character that has abilities tailored to fit the flavor, the idea of someone thinking they're a VT is dubious.

There is nothing to prevent a player from making a mixup on players, thinking someone is someone they're not, or to something of that effect.

Scum!me felt the urge to tell them I saw that and to stop giving "me" more info.

Again, why not?

You had already claimed your role publicly; all actions since having made it public fit with it being public. You're not going to hide it when you know you have access, because hiding it when you have access and have claimed to have access means that you're going to slip up at some point.

but regardless of the alignment it was the right lynch at that point).

Which means regardless of alignment, it doesn't make you town.

Question: I'm scum with Vedith. I know he's flipping red. Instead of being confident voting him based on an obvious slip I am still stuttering to spell s.c.u.m. Perfect for me.

I need only point to my own end of day posting there.

If my end of day posting were something I felt made me town, I'd be insisting on this fact.

Not once have I.

You know why I haven't?

Because I'm not delusional enough to think that what I did wasn't fakeable--in fact, I'm pretty sure I have faked something to that exact effect as scum before.

It is not something which can't be faked--not for me, not for you.

Knowing the slot will flip scum but pretending it won't isn't hard.

1251 pretending not to know Drixx was in CH5 , then deciding to post in that same channel. Oh, Gosh! I must be really stupid! WAIT! Mastina says otherwise. She says I'm a competent scum player. So how did this "little detail" escape me, when I had planned it all from the start?

You're reaching and you know it.

You have access to channel 5, regardless of your alignment.

You knew that Drixx was a member of the channel, regardless of your alignment.

1251 was thus faked, regardless of your alignment.

The only question would be whether the fake was alignment-indicative, and if so which one; the answer there is wholly "no, not really" because you'd do it as scum just as well as town.

Scum me is playing Russian roulette instead of buddying her and just making her swim with the fish at night.

Again.

Not. once.

Have you fucking buddied me.

Not. Once.

Always, you have taken the antagonistic role to me.

If you sided with me, I'd lynch you on the spot for it.

2071 I -again- fail to see the scum motive behind my posting this. I ould be nice if a couple of townies with weaker roles missed the deadline. Must've been a brain fart then.

Unless of course, you genuinely made the error on the mechanics.

You're not perfect as scum, nor have I ever presented the narrative you are. You are a scum planner, sure, but even the best scum planners (e.g. me) make mistakes from time to time.

I read that as being a genuine error; if I hadn't, I'd have brought it up previously.

Difference is, I see no reason why a genuine error = town, when scum make that sort of mistake all the time.

I wonder how mastina stands to type all that shit and then do more!

Practice.

I also can read in less than two months over a million words in a story. (Closer to two million, actually.) You can ask skitter about it, I talked about it on discord with her RE: Worm and how I was up to 27-1 in less than two months in spite of reading the comments sections start to finish on a rather large number of chapters.

Fast reader, surprisingly slow typist. (Well, I type fast--at around 100 wpm when REALLY going. It's just that I "think" slowly. Or rather, more specifically, I think too fast, and need to take time to slow my thoughts down so that something coherent forms. In other words, my brain takes time to "translate" concepts to English, which is where the dissonance is; I read at that accelerated rate and write at that accelerated rate but my demand for perfection in thought leads to a slower writing rate than I otherwise would have. So fast typist in theory, slow typist in practice.)

@Dunn: I don't have access to your channel and I dunno what you said in there

Again.

How the FUCK did you know about Dunnstral's post about Flavor Leaf, if you didn't have access to that information?

I forgot to mention my SR was weakened on Robert by the flip of Vedith. In fact, Vedith flipping scum shook my confidence in my reads a little, but on Robert the most because both of them where in the same channel with me and I was thinking it's unlikely there were 2 scum in the same channel.

Uh-huh.

Again.

"Everything right, except for the MOST CRUCIAL of details".

Also that logic is shit because as you know, Elena and I are in the same channel. This reeks of bullshit that was used to not push Robert.

[Almost50]

Chito: Yeah with that hammer optimism in a red flip on Gamma plummets :/

womp womp

so anyway should we ditch our role? All we do tonight is change from being a pgo to a disloyal pgo which, I guess is cool but seems kinda passive for getting an endgame solve. Put faith in the RNG and reroll or...?

Passive PGO is virtually unkillable, so I'd keep it. You'd be IC and guaranteed to make it to endgame. But that's just me.

[Almost50]

*Disloyal PGO

[Almost50]

In a role madness UPick game where every player has a flavor character that has abilities tailored to fit the flavor, the idea of someone thinking they're a VT is dubious.

Not gonna respond to SCUM!mastina, but I will note she's arguing for the sake of argument even if it makes her look more of a REDACTED.

She insists it doesn't make sense for PB to confuse his role when she's explicitly TRing him. In other words "he's town despite the fact he lied about something that nobody would even lie about".

Elena + mastina = scum team.

[Almost50]

even the best scum planners (e.g. me)

Best scum planner my ears. You never have been, never are and never will be even close to being a good player, as either alignment. You are only a good MOD. Stop lying to yourself.

[mastina]

Btw, mastina is going to do all she can to protect Elena.

Offer expires D4.
Elena's getting a pass for today.
I've made that clear.

She gets no pass tomorrow.
She proves she's town, or she dies.

That simple.

But she got a one day phase pass, and that's it.

I've made this abundantly clear before.

And my entire channel will back me up on my reasoning why.
It's not like my reasons are super sekrit; I've been telling them in the channel precisely why Elena is getting that one-day pass from me and every single one of them will be able to vouch/verify it.

(Mind you, Torque and Dunn are apparently idiotic enough where they literally forgot about this crucial detail, but I reminded them of it in the PT so they SHOULD remember it now and why I've been pushing not-Elena today.)

mastina is a great mod, but as a player she is hardly even average.

This applies to my towngame only--I'm a damn fucking good scum player, a fact you are all well too aware of.

But yes, it does in fact apply to my towngame; about average, usually lower, but in select circumstances, much higher than average. (E.g. nailing 3/4 members of the scumteam in Earthbound, nailing most of the scum--even if accidentally--in Steven Universe 2, Yume's Cutsie UPick.) Given the right environmental conditions, I can fucking DESTROY a scumteam. Those conditions absent, I am below average because I can't

tell

they are absent (most of the time).

It's not like I magically know "I have the scum on lock". (Except when I do.) It's not like I magically know "I'm doing terribly here" (except when I do). Most of the time, I simply have no way of differentiating between the two: nailed scumteam...or less-than-average reads. So when you average out "times I was an amazing scumhunter" with "the times I perform as I usually do, a little worse than random", it becomes "average scumhunter, if that", where if you're generous you can call me average.

She tries to bore people to death with her gigantic walls that almost nobody reads

I refrained from the walls until today--there was a damn fucking good reason for this; the SuperfluousNinja interactions playing out as they did and then

me becoming a lynch candidate when I should have become conftown

were the catalyst.

I guarantee you, those factors absent, I wouldn't be walling today.

But because I was fucking pushed. When I should have been fucking conftown. Ticked me off.

I was scum reading the predecessor and she wasn't.

Oh, really?

What was this, then?

Also SSBF proly town

Nooooo not really. He's not a scumread but he's the closest thing to being one without being one.

Vedith is, by far, the weakest, in that while I didn't think SSBF's content was good, I lack the meta familiarity to give context for his play, and Vedith here is harder to read but vaguely gives off some :goodvibes: overall. He's a compromise read more than anything else.

Sounds like I was pretty damn suspicious of SSBF but thought Vedith was less so!

A wagon builds on Vedith and suddenly she decides to join it

Also false.
I joined it because I promised I would.
I said I'd vote Vedith when we were under 48 hours.
We got to under 48 hours, so I voted him.
Wagon be damned, if I was a fucking vanity voter on Vedith I'd still have voted him because I promised I would.

and even now she's trying to take credit for it when she clearly had nothing to do with building the original wagon.

She also said you were scum, in the beginning but then reversed her read on you when nobody bought it.

Yeah no.
I don't back off scumreads as scum when nobody buys them--quite the opposite, that's when I double down on them.
scumastina's not afraid to push players she alone scumreads; quite the opposite, it's her preference.

I changed my read on Reasonably Psychotic because the circumstances changed. Because I had reason to believe Cerb was town that I didn't hold before then.

all she cares to do is control the game and do what she wants, as either alignment.

Also false.
The one and only fucking reason I'm controlling the game this game is because I fucking believe I have damn good reason to.

Looking at any given towngame, I don't control it--this has been shown, proven, time and time again.
That's not because I tried and failed--it's because I never tried because I never wanted to.

The way I control the game as scum is not by taking over, but by staying in the back seat and subtly manipulating things behind the scenes; this has a long established track record that can be shown in almost any scumgame of the last few years.

If she's town and the lynch she drives i on town she goes back to blame it on someone else, or even on the lynchee themselves.

Also false.
I keep pushing scumreads, yes.
But I don't blame someone for my wrong reads.
I haven't once said it was Toogeloo's fault I scumread him; I haven't once said I wasn't responsible for that wrong read; I've not once said that it was some other player's fault I scumread Toogeloo.

I'll own up to my mistakes...and then I move on.

Because that's the only way to play; you don't progress the game by wailing in self-pity of "woe is me, I got a read wrong"; you progress the game by continuing to fucking push people.

If mastina is town AND is as good as you think she is, then WHY THE FUCK IS SHE STILL ALIVE?

Because there were better nightkills and just because someone thinks I am good does not mean the scumteam reciprocates that.

You, for instance, with this very analysis have shown that you hold no respect for my capabilities, so if you're on the scumteam...

Then check the list she provided. This is her " early lynch pool" which has 10 entries. Even assuming FIVE scum (not just 4) then she has 5 townies listed in there. Simple math. Now which of the 10 she least wants to lynch? That's right. SCUM FUCKING ROBERT. She put him higher than AT LEAST 5 CONFIRMED TOWNIES.

Yeah, the key word there is

earliest

lynch pool.

Robert continued falling down that list.
And down.
And down.
And down.

Further and further down.

Because my read there went from "townread--I guess this is similar enough to last game" to fading into "ehhh not really townreading him anymore" to "hey wait a sec, that means he could be scum" to "no, wait, it means he

is

scum".

Newsflash, reads progress.

There isn't a player in the game who I haven't townread at some point. (Well, not alive, anyway. Dead? Dead, that'd be Toogeloo as the one and only person who was consistently a scumread.)
There's also only a small fraction of players in the game I haven't scumread at one point--I can count them on one hand, in fact. Chito and Yuuri, Torque, is there even more than just those two? Pretty sure there isn't, that everyone else was at some point a scumread.

You can thus.
Because I've townread every player in the game at some point.
And because I've scumread every player in the game at some point.
Selectively quote from your choice area of the game and say, "SEE? SEE? LOOK AT THIS WRONG READ RIGHT HERE ON THE FLIPPED PLAYER!"
Ignoring the fucking reads evolution present where the read was different later (and/or maybe, earlier).

That slot was MOD KILLED. mastina had nothing to do with the flip yet she is trying to steal credit for it too.

Because it is pretty fucking self-evident that SuperfluousNinja tilted because of me?

Fuck yes, I have something to do with that.

Now, Elena is NOT on the list.

On that list? No, I was townreading her in part because of her neighborhood posts.

But she

is

in the list today, which you'd know if you weren't selectively ignoring facts of my posts.

[Almost50]

You also have a problem with comprehension and recapping. I did NOT make a mistake there. OTHERS did. THEY thought they can swap their roles AT THE END OF THE NIGHT. It would have been good FOR SCUM to let them think that and thus leave the thread once a hammer occurred and miss the opportunity to switch their roles if they wanted to.

[Almost50]

I "think" slowly

I very much agree that you're overly slow.

[Almost50]

Also that logic is shit because as you know, Elena and I are in the same channel. This reeks of bullshit that was used to not push Robert.

Except we now have PROOF THAT IT'S POSSIBLE.

[Joan of Arc]

She also said you were scum, in the beginning but then reversed her read on you when nobody bought it.

Yeah no.
I don't back off scumreads as scum when nobody buys them--quite the opposite, that's when I double down on them.
scumastina's not afraid to push players she alone scumreads; quite the opposite, it's her preference.

I changed my read on Reasonably Psychotic because the circumstances changed. Because I had reason to believe Cerb was town that I didn't hold before then.

I believe they were talking about your read reversal on me, not RP.

[mastina]

There's also only a small fraction of players in the game I haven't scumread at one point--I can count them on one hand, in fact. Chito and Yuuri, Torque, is there even more than just those two? Pretty sure there isn't, that everyone else was at some point a scumread.

Since I included the dead Torque for the inverse, I suppose I can include the dead Drixx here as well. Also Spike and Jet, I suppose. Oh I guess Clemency/Ankamius, too?
That's still a single hand, though. Five slots townread never changed.

Everyone else, alive or dead, has been a townread at some point and a scumread at another.
SSBF? Scumread. Vedith? Townread. Then scumread.
singletonking? Wavered between townread and scumread. Usually more the former than the latter, but the latter cropped up from time to time.
Morality/Flavor Leaf/Severa? Townread, then scumread, then no-read.
Of the living players?
Cerb? Scumread. Then townread.
Joan? Scumread. Then townread.
Near x Mello? Scumread. Then townread.
Dunnstral? Scumread. Then townread.
Elena? Townread. Then scumread, but given a day pass.
You? Townread. Then scumread.
Gamma? Townread. Then scumread.
Pink Ball? Scumread. Then townread.

Every single read of mine among the living, bar two, has changed.

You can't fucking point to an initial Robert read as evidence of something when that fucking read changed, and quite obviously, self-evidently so.

[mastina]

why am i even talking about joan

Because Almost50 wanted you to be.

[Almost50]

I'm a damn fucking good scum player, a fact you are all well too aware of.

Not when I have identified you as scum on D1 (and in the first half of the day mind you) in TM 2018. You're less than average as BOTH alignments.

[Joan of Arc]

I'm a damn fucking good scum player, a fact you are all well too aware of.

Not when I have identified you as scum on D1 (and in the first half of the day mind you) in TM 2018. You're less than average as BOTH alignments.

Oh, so your experience with her as a player counts for something, yet my own doesn't count for anything? I call shenanigans.

[mastina]

In that game, mastina simply updates her reads list a lot, but she doesn't make these long wallposts over-analyzing every movement of her reads list.

You have to understand two key factors.
1: Steven Universe 2 represented a shift in the way I played. It was the transition from mastin2 to mastina--and there is a deeply personal reason for this shift, actually, one which I can discuss over PMs but won't discuss in person. There's something unique about mastina that wasn't present on mastin2...but Steven Universe 2 represented the first time that this thing began to appear. (Basically, there was a gigantic shift in playstyle happening over the course of that game. At the beginning, I was mastin2; by the end, I was mastina.)

2: I only started the long wallposts after the SuperfluousNinja modkill,

in tandem

with people then being suspicious of ME after it.

If that was absent.

I wouldn't be making the long wallposts.

What you see here is the result of something I fucking KNOW is self-destructive and usually stay away from doing--but because

I am fucking pissed

, I stopped caring about it being self-destructive.

My D1 play?
Normal me.
My D2 play?
Not

as

normal of me, but still

close

to my normal me.
My D3 play prior to the modkill?
Normal me.

My D3 play post-modkill?

Fucking ticked off.

[mastina]

SNOWMAGEDDON SEVEN: RAGNAROK: "

The Final Installment…

"
SNOWMAGEDDON: SNOW AGE: "

Get Ready for Glaciers…

"

I'd like to make an amendment to seven's tagline:
"

The CHILLING Conclusion to the Epic Saga...

"

[Joan of Arc]

Almost50 in a nutshell

[Almost50]

why am i even talking about joan

Because Almost50 wanted you to be.

Yes, it's called the nano technology. I think it, you do it.

[mastina]

VOTE: Almost50
Again, will provide more when I can.

@Joan: What did I tell you?

Nothing I didn't already explicitly tell everyone earlier, so it's not like you were telling people anything I hadn't already:

Right now I'm on Gamma because why not, the VC made an error and I am amused at the thought of making the error not be one, but I'll readily switch back to Almost50 at a moment's notice.

Aside from times I'm sleeping, driving, or too busy with work to check my phone (not gonna get in trouble with work for a fucking online game, sorry), I'm mostly available 24/7 to switch between the two. I've made my argument for why Almost50 is scum and it's the lynch I more want, but if it's impossible to get, then Gamma's an acceptable lynch because she's also almost assuredly scum.

I think there's another post too, but can't be assed to track it down, where I explicitly said, "I'll vote for whichever of those wagons has more momentum."

Your wagon had more momentum than Gamma's at the time.

I just switched to Gamma because while you were at L-1, the wagon fell apart and people switched to Gamma--meaning she had more momentum than you did.