Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Buj, why are you voting me if the self-voter in that game flipped town?

Because you made an anti-town play. Why is this baffling?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm going to be honest I'm doing other things right now. I'm not particularly interested in listening to your haughtiness yell at me about how you've got a 75% win rate as town. Your self vote was dumb, it got in the way of things other people tried to do, you've shown in other posts you're incapable of accepting that other players might be using more nuanced play in any form or fashion. You played rashly and eagerly and made a mistake and now you're incapable of admitting it. Sorry. If you don't want to listen or work with me because you've got an estimated 75% win rate as town, that's fine. Just say so in your next post and I'll stop responding.

Don't worry though, everyone's human, and everyone makes mistakes. Just don't end up like certain players on this site who will spend all game whining about how good their reads are after townread after townread flips scum, just because they've had solid games in the past.

[DrDolittle]

god i dont want to add gasoline to the flame but eddie cane once self voted (a couple of times) very effectively and led town to a very difficult win

[DrDolittle]

I think shoshin is town. I think EE is town. I think DT is scum. His engagement in this line of fire is a bit over the top angry.

But my day 1 reads are typically awful so.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

god i dont want to add gasoline to the flame but eddie cane once self voted (a couple of times) very effectively and led town to a very difficult win

Did he think about it instead of doing it because he was FUCKING BORED?!?

Sorry. I hate dealing with this shit.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

This is boring.

VOTE: Shoshin

Rash, poorly thought out decision. Not an example of an exception to the rule, it's a case of the player losing interest in what the other players are trying to do or trying to undermine what the other players are trying to do even though I'm almost certain I made it obvious that I'm trying to do other things. Destructive and disgusting.

I don't care if a player self-votes because they know what they're doing. Sure if their self-vote caused you to win, great.

[Shoshin]

Response to EE:

Spoiler:

Please keep this conversation in spoilers so that it doesn't distract players who don't care about this. And please don't put words in my mouth. I'm very precise with my words so please don't add stuff that isn't there. To be clear, I never said my play was objectively optimal. This is what I said:

Fourth, how can you say I'm "conceited" when I'm just asking you to reserve judgment until post-game? What's "conceited" about that? If it causes actual harm, I'll reevaluate. If it doesn't, I hope you'll reevaluate. Thus far, I think it injected adrenaline into the gamestate in positive ways. I've already refined my reads as a result and I believe others will too.

In other words, I said that I would reevaluate after the game based on how things play out. I also asked that you do the same. I'm doing what I think best based on the information I have. This in no way means that I have absolute knowledge about what's optimal/suboptimal. Maybe I'm wrong about this particular self-vote, maybe I'm not. It's too early to tell with anything close to the objectivity you pretend to have.

I also never said that my friends said I'm good at this game. You made that up. This is what I said:

Third, it wasn't my "best friends" calling me "MVP," it was people who didn't know me, calling me "atrocious," "shamelessly bad" during the game. The fact that they changed their view after the game is what I'm drawing your attention to. We have incomplete knowledge during the game, so you might call something "bad" that actually was "game-winning."

This wasn't about bragging or saying I'm good. It was about saying that you're not a god with perfect knowledge of what's optimal/suboptimal.

You calling me "conceited," and questioning my wins without even knowing anything me/them, is uncalled for & baseless. I'd appreciate if insults were left out of this but whatever, I guess it's too late for that.

If you're going to respond to me, please do so in good faith. It's not productive to put words in my mouth that weren't said. If something isn't clear, ask, don't assume.

[Shoshin]

To clarify, I used the term "boring" to describe the gamestate, not to describe my feelings.

[DrDolittle]

ddl i assume you thought something in my rqs post was scum indicitive
id be midly interested in hearing about that whenever you turn up

oh i have to respond to this.

i found it kind of weird that you entered with just a response on the rqs, rather than commenting anything about the game state.

reads to me like you caught up, but you didn't want to comment anything to standout (cause it is a 14-3 game after all) , so responding to rqs like everyone else is a good way to fit in.

[Shoshin]

I'm not sure if scum got cold feet or if I'm just getting bad at being wagoned.

I find this post inconsistent with EE's views on self-voting. How is baiting a self-wagon, or expressing sadness over the dismantling of a self-wagon, different from a self-vote? The intent is the same: finding scum through a self-wagon. What do you think, DDL?

[DrDolittle]

i would agree with that thought. although im also in the camp of there's nothing wrong with a good self-voting

[Shoshin]

I'm just trying to sort EE. He keeps saying I distracted from important stuff but I don't see what I distracted from? Why are you townreading him?

[grapes]

shoshi could you reference a game where you've selfvoted before?

[Shoshin]

This might be my first time, can't remember.

[grapes]

VOTE: shoshin
see things like this are far better to read into when you can compare how the "play" is used as both alignments..

Xtox is town. He easily could have stayed on my wagon if he were scum but he's thinking steps deeper. He caught what I was doing (building a wagon) & moved off as soon as he saw DT's scummy reaction. His earlier posts were already townish but this solidifies the read for me.

but for a reaction test you've never used first hand im just a little more pinged by the overconfidence here. Xtom voting you and then dt isn't what I'd call a deep thought process but more a thing that he did.

DT's likely scum. I don't see town DT responding this strongly to a self-vote when he knows that townies do it all the time. His inability to keep straight whether he's pushing me as a PL or pushing me as scummy scum feels like scum who wants me to get lynched for the self-vote but doesn't want to seem scummy for exclusively pushing a PL. He's also blatantly buddying up to EE in ways that feels like scum/town.

And could you unpack this a bit more?

[Shoshin]

but for a reaction test you've never used first hand im just a little more pinged by the overconfidence here. Xtom voting you and then dt isn't what I'd call a deep thought process but more a thing that he did.

I think my confidence gets interpreted as overconfidence sometimes because people expect women to be less confident. I hope that isn't you. Whatever the case, I have experience sorting reactions to self-votes so this isn't something new. I just can't remember if I've done them myself.

As for Xtox, asking himself whether DT's reaction was scummier than my self-vote requires more thought than ignoring reactions to the self-vote. The fluidity in his change was especially towny. Are you scumreading Xtox?

And could you unpack this a bit more?

DT overreacted, not sure what else you want me to say. I think he jumped on the opportunity to push my mislynch while buddying up to EE. Are you townreading DT?

[DrDolittle]

what exactly do you mean by policy lynch
i think policy lynching is pretty fair in some scenarios
like if you caught someone in a role lie
or someone is making exclusively non game related posts

xtoxm that first quote in your sig. was that your scum game or town game?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I'm not sure if scum got cold feet or if I'm just getting bad at being wagoned.

I find this post inconsistent with EE's views on self-voting. How is baiting a self-wagon, or expressing sadness over the dismantling of a self-wagon, different from a self-vote? The intent is the same: finding scum through a self-wagon. What do you think, DDL?

How likely are you to join a wagon where the player self votes? Tell me about your reactions to it.

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Wow slayer's gambit this early?

That alone deserves a policy lynch

[Reiuji Utsuho]

is rei=yume known info or are you guessing

I'm me :V
This is my second forum mafia game, first one in mafiauniverse (never again)

also how would anyone remember what the fuck you are posting if you keep saying parsley thyme onions while writing shitty poems

Actually that's why mentioned that my quotes were random. It makes people go back and read my post so they don't have to remember! Clever trick, eh?

Also what you called shitty poems is called Scarbrough Fair you unclassical misearable pile of secrets

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Scarborough Fair*

I'm kinda tipsy atm

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Anyway development happened and apparently this DT guy sounds flameheaded and impulsive, so I guess it really isnt a cold feet thing as he claimed.

If shoshin didn't expect all the flak he is getting right now, then I have no words. If he expected "mafia would be opportunistic and jump on him" or something, then it's like giving out of piece of cake and calling them mafia when they eat it. They just want the cake, ya know.

[DrDolittle]

I'm a big fan of your poems

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Spoiler: To Shoshin

For your information, Shoshin, I started putting words in your mouth solely because your nonchalance with my words made it seem that diction must not matter to you at all. Now that I see that you have no respect for me or the arguments I pose because you expect me to respect your words in a way you do not mine. It has become apparent to me that you are as aware of what I'm saying to you as you are of the effect of your rash self vote. The fact that you try so hard to justify your idiocy through humbly bragging about the things people have said about you and the idea that you seem to think for some reason that I will have increased respect for your opinion because of your win rate as town shows how hopeless it is to continue arguing with you. All I see is a predetermined state of mind with arguments you make up on the spot, hoping for some reason that I'll fall to the fact that you, too, know how to count. You went so far as to say that my description of your self-vote was inaccurate and posted four points afterwards, only one of which was an actual attempt at countering such an argument, and if you are trying to tell me that you had no intention of getting reads or becoming a discussion point after putting a vote on yourself, beginning an argument with you was foolish on my part anyways.

So in good faith, I will break this down for you as honestly as I possibly can.I do not think you are necessarily bad at the game. I don't think you are stupid. I don't think you're malicious. I think you made a mistake and you're incapable of handling the fact that it might have been a bad move. I think you have no intention of actually reading and applying thought to the words I put in front of you, I think you will continue with your useless hypotheticals and "what ifs" to respond to the fact that your self-vote was a bad move. I despise your self vote. I despise your attitude when you responded to criticisms of it. I despise the way you took liberties with my words and then chastised me for doing the same. I despise your ego. I want nothing more to do with this argument and should you wish to continue them, I recommend you find a stone wall. It will be more attentive to your please for justification than I will.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

That moment when you pour all your anger into a post and then realize that you accidentally put an "e" on the end of "pleas."