Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Rei yell at me about why I'm wrong on Vedith

I don't think I can really explain it to you, because I'm basically grabbing the same quotes you grabbed and calling it town because of the reason exactly opposite of what you stated.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Overreaction is one word for it.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Rei yell at me about why I'm wrong on Vedith

I don't think I can really explain it to you, because I'm basically grabbing the same quotes you grabbed and calling it town because of the reason exactly opposite of what you stated.

Ok, makes sense.

Sorry.

@everyone do you like where you feel the game is headed right now

[Gamma Emerald]

Is this entire game just shitposting

[Gamma Emerald]

Rei yell at me about why I'm wrong on Vedith

I don't think I can really explain it to you, because I'm basically grabbing the same quotes you grabbed and calling it town because of the reason exactly opposite of what you stated.

Ok, makes sense.

Sorry.

@everyone do you like where you feel the game is headed right now

In circles.

[DrDolittle]

Is this entire game just shitposting

in your opinion, does scum shitpost more or town?

[Reiuji Utsuho]

Is this entire game just shitposting

It is if you're making up an excuse to not read the game

[NerfedBuJ]

@shoshin - I admit I misread your read on EE, but all the others came after my vote not before. And also why aren't you talking about ignoring DT asking you where your head is at multiple times to your face? The way people focusing on just one argument against you which is the overreaction to your vote is false.

And let's not comment on my read accuract until after the game when we actually would know the results. Say I am wrong about you. That's just one read so far that only you and scum can verify.

Why is it weird that I thought I played a game with DT when in fact it turned out I played another game that was far more recent? I don't have perfect recall. Why are you even talking about that? Why is Alisae who claims you can't have single digit page-cases in non single-digit pages not commenting on the fact EE and DT are talking about a single-digit page? The way you talked about that arbitrarily RVS line you draw in your head makes it sound like you consider it a mortal sin.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I feel like people have a misunderstanding of what RVS is, what purpose it fulfills, the ability to use the same idea throughout the game, and the reason that it works and is used almost universally.

Which is one reason I opened with RQS.

[NerfedBuJ]

Also if you want to lynch me because this is a new account with no previous meta that's fair enough but I'm deliberately being less me than I usually am because being me leads to too much stress and too much time spent on here.

Pedit - RVS is a brilliant scumhunting ground no matter what Alisae thinks. I'm just using Alisae's personal opinion to judge Alisae on because it would be unfair to treat her like anyone other than her.
But personay a lot of my correct scumreads have been gathered in RVS or at the very least it gives me a scum pool to further analyze. Ask shoshin who's applying a BoP argument on me as we speak

[Extrapolated Eagle]

People meta-reading alts is hilarious.

"Hey guys, I wanna change!"
"Let's lynch him, he's different!"

Yeah I'm not impressed with what I've seen from Alisae as far as thought process so far, but I like them as a person, so... :/

[Shoshin]

I admit I misread your read on EE, but all the others came after my vote not before.

And yet you're still voting me... why aren't you reevaluating?

And also why aren't you talking about ignoring DT asking you where your head is at multiple times to your face?

I addressed that already. I ignore questions as town so this isn't scummy for me. And besides, I wasn't actually ignoring DT's question, I just wasn't responding to him directly.

You think I didn't answer because I'm hiding something? That doesn't make sense. His question was too vague for you to say I'm hiding something. And it's not like I wasn't posting, so you can't say I'm nervous scum who's scared to talk. What am I hiding? How does ignoring DT's questions multiple times (not once but multiple times) further my objectives as scum?

[Shoshin]

Why is it weird that I thought I played a game with DT when in fact it turned out I played another game that was far more recent? I don't have perfect recall. Why are you even talking about that? Why is Alisae who claims you can't have single digit page-cases in non single-digit pages not commenting on the fact EE and DT are talking about a single-digit page? The way you talked about that arbitrarily RVS line you draw in your head makes it sound like you consider it a mortal sin.

I assume this isn't directed at me but just in case: I never said it was weird that you played a game with DT. I can't speak to Alisae's intent. And I never said anything about RVS. You might be confusing me with someone else.

[Shoshin]

Buj, why aren't you scumreading EE for ignoring my questions?

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.13

NerfedBuJ(4)

~ Vedith(84), DrDolittle(37), grapes(16), Shoshin(102)

Shoshin(2)

~ Lycanfire(10), NerfedBuJ(27)

PvtUrist(2)

~ Jingle(125), Extrapolated Eagle(161)

Lycanfire(1)

~ mcqueen(4)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ PvtUrist(14)

Extrapolated Eagle(1)

~ Alisae(103)

DoubtingThomas(1)

~ Xtoxm(18)

Alisae(1)

~ DoubtingThomas(118)


Not Voting (4): Gamma Emerald(18), Reiuji Utsuho(47), Clemency(10), Karmeleon(26)

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2019-03-19 22:19:59)

Prodding Lycanfire.

PvtUrist has requested replacement. Searching for a replacement now.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Probably because the question you asked me was dumb.

This:

Also shoshin, 3 things I should clarify from my perspective

1. NAI does not equal 'both town and scum do it'. Both scum and town do it means there is sometimes town motivation and there is sometimes scum motivation. That you can analyze. NAI are things that are entirely independent from alignment, such as being busy in real life, not reading a role PM, being bad at math etc.

2. Some actions are inherently anti-town. I don't care that some player in some niche scenario was once able to get something good out of it. The reality is an anti-town action is just bad for town 99% of the time, and in that 1% rare chance, I guarantee that there are alternative ways to achieve the same thing.

3. If someone does something scummy and ends up flipping town it is not my responsibility to townread such behavior in the future. It is their responsibility to not repeat it.

Pedit - fine by me.. I'll stick to only the first 3 reasons for townreading DT just as long as everyone else also doesn't scumread the AtE

What looks towny about Vedith and PvtUrist to you?

Talking theory is towny? Anyone could post this without even reading the game. How do you ever townread this?

I already said why Vedith's town.

I never said Pvt is town. Again, don't put words in my mouth.

You're asking me why I'm townreading a player for taking a stance that moves the game forward, while in the next line you townread a player for taking a stance that moves the game backwards.

[Shoshin]

That's not the question I'm talking about.

[Shoshin]

That's also not why I townread Vedith, which I've already explained multiple times.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

ALso I didn't say you thought Pvt was town. I asked you what looks towny about them to you. If the answer is nothing, please just say "nothing." I'm not trying to get you to explain your reads, I'm trying to get you to see what I"m seeing as far as where the game is and where it's heading. You'll get a lot farther with the game if you stop assuming and contradicting your mindset

[Extrapolated Eagle]

Vedith's probably town. I was thinking it the moment he called my Eagle vote bad. Defending me now solidifies the read.

Sorry, my b.

[Extrapolated Eagle]

I take it back then, I got your case on vedith mixed up with jingles. Sorry, my bad.

Saying I townread buj is a bit of an extreme statement. He seems pretty towny to me because he took a stance that moved the game forward, to answer your question

[NerfedBuJ]

I am reevaluating. That doesn't mean I have to change my mind, nor does it mean I have to change my mind right now.

Correct, that part was not directed at you.

EE makes up for it with other things.

DT was ignored and then shaded and scumread. You weren't the only one to do that so I can see why you might thing I'm singling you out but I only have one vote and overall I think I'm happy with the discussions and how the votes are progressing to change anything.

Again, if you do something as both alignments it doesn't mean I can't scumread you for it. By definition sometimes you do it as scum so there's potential for me to scumread your intent and be right about it. If you are claiming that you have never self-voted as scum and you have never ignored questions as scum that's different (please do confirm). Technically there's a first time for everything but at least in that case if you did do it for the first time as scum then it means you can't ever use this argument again which overall makes your play and everyone else's better in the future, which would even be worth losing to you for imo, not that I think letting scum!you live now automatically means town loses. I'm fully aware I can change my read if I start townreading you and then also change it later if future evidence makes me scumread you again.

The last thing is a bit harder to put into words, but it's not really about you hiding something as much as you don't seem interested in treating DT like a neutral read. If you saw that someone is not understanding that you are responding to them subtly, why wouldn't you then explain it to them directly?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

What question are you wanting me to answer, Shos?

[NerfedBuJ]

Shoshin if you're town do you honestly think I'm scummier than the people who townread you when you self-voted before you even explained any reads or motivations behind your actions?

[Shoshin]

EE makes up for it with other things.

What things?

DT was ignored and then shaded and scumread. You weren't the only one to do that so I can see why you might thing I'm singling you out but I only have one vote and overall I think I'm happy with the discussions and how the votes are progressing to change anything.

You're changing your story from before. Are you now voting me because I voted for DT? I don't see what's scummy about that. I thought his reaction was over-the-top, and I thought the way he was playing up EE's posting felt very much like he was pocketing a towny while pushing my mislynch. It's fine if you disagree with my feelings but put yourself in my shoes -- imagine you're town with DT reacting the way he did, stoking EE, and aggressively pushing your mislynch -- I find it hard to believe you wouldn't be paranoid of DT in that circumstance.

Again, if you do something as both alignments it doesn't mean I can't scumread you for it.

If I do something as both town/scum, it means it's not AI for me. And if you applied that tell, you might get lucky one game but in most games you'd mislynch me (assuming I'm town more often than scum). If you don't see a problem with that approach to the game, I don't know what to tell you.

If you are claiming that you have never self-voted as scum and you have never ignored questions as scum that's different (please do confirm).

I have never self-voted as scum, nor would I unless playing with people who had seen me do it as town. I don't ignore questions as scum because it unnecessarily alienates players that I want to pocket. Again, the only exception is when the player list knows my town meta to the point where ignoring questions eases their suspicions. Audience matters. There isn't anyone familiar with my meta in this game so I'd never self-vote or ignore questions here as scum.

The last thing is a bit harder to put into words, but it's not really about you hiding something as much as you don't seem interested in treating DT like a neutral read. If you saw that someone is not understanding that you are responding to them subtly, why wouldn't you then explain it to them directly?

I was trying to sort DT by testing his reactions. I also knew that I'd have no problem explaining this to DT later, or with working together if I eventually townread him. You're the only player turning this into a problem for reasons that don't actually make sense.

Shoshin if you're town do you honestly think I'm scummier than the people who townread you when you self-voted before you even explained any reads or motivations behind your actions?

I thought my play was towny prior to the self-vote. I also think the way I self-voted was towny. I understand that you disagree because you think self-voting is anti-town, but please notice that nothing bad actually happened as a result of the self-vote -- sometimes you need to stretch your mind a bit so that you can see the bigger picture of how certain actions actually impact the game in practice, not in theory, and in this case, the self-vote caused no harm while creating a bunch of information.

I know you probably won't believe this because it's self-meta but know this: When I'm scum, I'm usually the most townread player in the game in large part because I don't ignore, I don't create rifts, I don't test reactions, and I don't do anything that could ever be mistakenly perceived as scummy (e.g. self-voting). In contrast, when I'm town, I believe enough in my fellow townies to correctly read me because I know that eventually I'll drop genuine town tells that will overcome whatever perceived scummy shit I did earlier (see e.g. Labyrinth), so I play more on the edge to test reactions, create information, bait the scum, and win games.